17 ms·

Why I Procrastinate (2019)

425 points by InvisibleUp 7y ago

shortoncash 7y ago
Calendars and to-do lists matter, but the unpleasant aspect of these things is that I become a human scheduler, similar to an operating system scheduler. The scheduling function consumes so much time on its own, and it's psychologically uncomfortable. Dare I say it: I don't like context switches and would prefer first come first serve, until completion. The real world, however, is unforgiving on which scheduler I can choose.
kitd 7y ago
All these procrastination articles are obviously finding their target audience here on HN!
- idclip 7y ago
  Upvote this man
- rb808 7y ago
  I think all the developers out there who are actually doing work aren't here to upvote other topics.
  - fxtentacle 7y ago
    My code is compiling ;) No, really, I'm waiting for an O(n^4) algorithm to finish processing a full HD frame to confirm that it works before I put in the effort of building a GPU version.
- dredmorbius 7y ago
  We need to extend the "noprocast" feature to address this.
  - marcosdumay 7y ago
    The noprocast feature does not work for me because if I am not procrastinating, I will open several tabs and keep them there for short breaks during the day. The noprocast rules will only accept my procrastinating behavior.
- J-dawg 7y ago
  I sometimes feel like these articles are popular because procrastination is just a universal part of the human condition. I doubt anyone scrolls past these articles and thinks “that doesn’t affect me at all”. I procrastinate to the point where it’s causing me real problems in life, yet it feels kinda indulgent to say that as if I’m the victim of some disease, when I’m actually just failing to deal with something that’s hard for everyone. Perhaps this feeling is actually contributing to the problem, because I’m continually frustrated that I can’t just snap out of it like (most) other people.
  - VBprogrammer 7y ago
    I think that might be the British in us. I feel like Americans are much more open to diagnosis of mental conditions like anxiety and depression. Perhaps because they are constantly bombarded with advertising for medications for them and other conditions.
    - J-dawg 7y ago
      You might well be right. But a diagnosis of what? I’ve often wondered whether I have ADHD, but I don’t have the other symptoms of forgetfulness, disorganisation and hyperactivity. Procrastination is a huge problem for me and I’d love to have a label for it, but I don’t think procrastination alone qualifies as a mental disorder.
      - VBprogrammer 7y ago
        I guess I'm the same in a lot of ways. I can end up in a spiral of self destructive procrastination. I do identify with some of the other symptoms and experiences but not all of them. In truth I think that a binary classification is too much of a blunt instrument. The reality is probably more of a spectrum.
  - outworlder 7y ago
    > I sometimes feel like these articles are popular because procrastination is just a universal part of the human condition. I doubt anyone scrolls past these articles and thinks “that doesn’t affect me at all”. It's normal, to a degree. When you are failing classes and having problems with your job, relationships and even your hobbies, then it is no longer normal.
glofish 7y ago
I like these upvoted posts on procrastination. Feels like the HN community (like myself) struggles with this. Nowadays I embrace procrastination as necessary "evil". Unlike the cited post, I don't think one needs "help" with that - it might just backfire even more. I have come to believe that procrastination is a healthy and necessary condition for outstanding productivity. It is like REM sleep or something :-) I think that without some level of procrastination nothing amazing would ever be done.
- InvisibleUp 7y ago
  A certain level of procrastination is healthy. We're not meant to be machines, constantly productive 24/7. Downtime to enjoy your life, consume creative works, and unwind is good. I'm not talking about that here. I'm talking about severe procrastination, when it's very difficult to do the work you need to do. The goal is to strike a healthy balance.
rootusrootus 7y ago
It's like this guy has been inside my head. Sometimes I feel exactly he same way, do the same things (well, not Twitter), with the same thoughts and results. There have been times when I refresh HN and say "you're not even enjoying this, why do you keep looking?"
- hashkb 7y ago
  It's not a guy.
  - InvisibleUp 7y ago
    She's not an it, either.
    - seoulsubway 7y ago
      Calm down dude. It doesn't matter what people use to reference a third body.
    - hashkb 7y ago
      That's true. It's less wrong; and my intent was to add a bit of fun. Sorry, guy.
  - rootusrootus 7y ago
    I use "guy" generically, I don't read content with gender in mind unless it is pertinent. She did not express a preference (or I missed it).
    - hashkb 7y ago
      You missed it! If you're going to comment on someone's article, and their blog has an "about" page, read it before leaving the comment. It's baseline etiquette.
kleborp 7y ago
The post linked within this post was really illuminating for me: https://gekk.info/articles/adhd.html https://gekk.info/articles/adhd.html The section on why notecards and todo lists have never worked for him (and for me) was particularly salient: "The problem with "systems" is that they are authorities. They have to be. If you decide "I'll prioritize things with a stack of notecards" then you are telling yourself the following: "The notecards replace my own brain. Everything that I do must be on a notecard. If it isn't on a notecard, it can't be done. If I want it done, it has to be on a notecard." The problem is that when you have a crisis (a day full of emergencies) that forces you to break from this system you will lose all respect for its authority. Your brain will learn that it doesn't have to respect the notecards, that they aren't in charge, and this sense of freedom is addictive and will persist. Most ADHD sufferers have left a trail of systems - notecards, whiteboards, lists, post-its, apps, alarms - that worked great for [a month, a week, three days] but are now dead to them, scorched earth we can't return to."
- aequitas 7y ago
  You can use this to your advantage to create peace of mind as I found out. The mechanism you describe is what is the basis for the "Getting things done" framework. You learn your brain to "trust" the "authority" so it can let go of all loose ends that keep your brain busy (like stuff it needs to remember, like appointment, paying a bill, fixing something in the house, etc). But if you are able to trick your brain in not checking in with the authority (as GTD dictates) you are left with a lot of spare room in your brain to think creative, at least thats my theory.
  - fireontheroad 7y ago
    I have ADD, and I can speak to the GTD framework being an extremely useful tool. In my case I use Trello to run what I call my "Digital Brain". I use a typical kanban wip system (Backlog, Today, Blocked, Done) to organize pretty much all task-related things in my life and it works extremely well. Once I know its on the trello board, I know I don't have to worry about keeping it in my head anymore, and that gives me a lot more space to relax and not worry things are being missed/forgotten.
idclip 7y ago
Remember, idle hands are the devil’s playground.
cryptozeus 7y ago
Procrastination articles start to appear on HN as we get close to end of January. There is a lesson in there somewhere.
- jraph 7y ago
  Possible explanation: one has appeared here by chance a few days ago, and then people read stuff about procratination on their own and some are submitting some of this stuff here.
- tdsamardzhiev 7y ago
  Man, I feel like it's the 75th of January already. Does this month ever end?
  - marcosdumay 7y ago
    January is usually longer than the remaining of the year. Enjoy while it lasts.
keyanp 7y ago
"I find it extraordinarily difficult to just... relax. Sit on a bench and watch the clouds. [...] But even if I'm in that perfect scenario where there's nothing to do... my brain will just fill the void with absurd daydreams and rabbithole trains of thought." This is the case for many (all?) people. I've found that you need to intentionally train your ability to not let your mind do this. I recommend this book for some exercises to help: https://www.amazon.com/Happiness-Mindfulness-Thich-Nhat-Hanh/dp/1888375914 https://www.amazon.com/Happiness-Mindfulness-Thich-Nhat-Hanh...
- fxtentacle 7y ago
  I have the exact same thing, but I always thought of it as a brilliant feature, not as a problem. As soon as I sit around and get bored, my brain will make up absurd daydreams and stories. Usually they are pretty funny, so afterwards I feel relaxed and happy. Isn't that the whole point of taking a break?
  - jlangemeier 7y ago
    Imagine that brilliant feature isn't just "a break" but the norm... it's not just "when I get bored," it's: - In the middle of flow - Trying to fall asleep - Trying to go back to sleep - In the middle of important conversations - During meetings - even one's you're leading - When you're getting dressed - When you're making breakfast (where the hell did I put the 3rd spoon I've pulled from the drawer) - When you're in intimate moments with a partner (or by yourself - no judgement here) - When you're making lunch (just burned my second grilled cheese because I can't stay on task for 5 minutes) - During exercise - During free-time and hobbies - Between small tasks - In the middle of small tasks - etc - etc - etc The article itself is about the issues surrounding the person's ADHD, not just "procrastination," which for many people is a good thing, because it's a brain break; but for many of us with ADHD it's the norm and a cycle we have to fight instead of embrace.
    - fxtentacle 7y ago
      That would be super annoying, I concur. I would say the article nicely highlights the problems with ADHD diagnosis, because when I read it, I thought for pretty much every point "oh I also do that sometimes"
3minus1 7y ago
> I'm really prone to letting my thoughts get off on the worst tangents, and it will take a while to get myself back on track Sometimes I'll be listening to an audiobook and I'll start thinking about something else. By rewinding the audiobook I can figure out how long the distraction was (could be over a minute). It also amazes me how I have no recollection of the portions of the audiobook that were playing while I was distracted.
- meowface 7y ago
  This happens to me a lot, but it often ends up being 5+ minutes lost.
- pmoriarty 7y ago
  I've mostly been able to solve this problem (unless I'm really frazzled and have a lot of other things on my mind) by adjusting the audiobook's playback speed. Too slow and I'll be bored and my mind will wander a lot, and too fast and I'll miss chunks even with the smallest mind wandering. The sweet spot is somewhere in the middle. For reading written material, I found a trick that worked for me in college, when I had mountains of assigned books to read. Whenever I noticed my mind wandering, I'd make an arbitrary mark (like a simple checkmark) on a piece of paper and immediately go back to reading. This kept my focus and I was able to barrel through a ton of reading.
- tikhonj 7y ago
  Happens to me with audiobooks, physical books, movies... even in-person conversations. The latter can be awkward, but I've gotten pretty good at guessing what I missed, or asking reasonable questions to get myself back on track :).
- Mirioron 7y ago
  Letting the mind wander like that is precisely why I read books in the first place. Sometimes I'll only read one chapter in 3 hours and the rest is just daydreaming.
joshklein 7y ago
I recommend “Procrastination” by Burka & Yuen. For the kind of person who frequents this site and endures suffering due to procrastination, even seeing their clinical definition of maladaptive perfectionism (and learning why procrastinating provides relief from it) could reduce your level of anxiety and self-flagellation, if not help you change your behavior. The first section of their book provides a framework for understanding what is happening when you procrastinate, then orients your investigation into the underlying causes specific to you (or those not applicable to you). The book's second section offers self-directed cognitive behavioral therapies. "Procrastination" is based on decades of the authors’ clinical experience. The 25th anniversary edition pulls in updated academic research from as far afield as behavioral economics (future discounting) that didn't exist when the book was first published. [This comment is a reposted version of one of my own previous comments]
- pmoriarty 7y ago
  Along similar lines, there's a fantastic video by procrastination researcher Tim Pychyl here: [1] I've watched a ton of videos on procrastination, and read a lot about it, and this video is head and shoulders above everything else. Highly recommended. He also has the iProcrastinate Podcast[2], which also has some useful and interesting episodes. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhFQA998WiA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhFQA998WiA [2] - http://iprocrastinate.libsyn.com/ http://iprocrastinate.libsyn.com/
tempsy 7y ago
Doesn’t this contradict the other article that was upvoted on how procrastination is more emotional than anything else? To say it is ADHD is to suggest it is neurological e.g. some chemical imbalance in the brain, but if it’s really an emotional response then saying you have ADHD is more like pointing out the symptom rather than the cause here.
- jlangemeier 7y ago
  This isn't saying that __ALL__ procrastination is ADHD, and the other article didn't say that __ALL__ procrastination is emotional. This article is saying that this specific person's procrastination is linked to their ADHD - and even covers some of the emotional response portion (the section on feedback dysphoria). Most psychologists and psychiatrists worth their salt will tell you that ADHD and Anxiety are kissing-cousins; and will usually look for the other if someone has one of them. Guess what is a great emotional inhibitor to doing things... Anxiety. More generally, a strong emotional response of any kind could be considered as a chemical imbalance by how you're categorizing ADHD. ADHD isn't as hard and fast assigned a "chemical imbalance" like Depression, and more closely related to Asperger/Autism as an executive function/communication disorder (via DSM 4r9 and all of DSM 5). The reason that some of us are given something like Welbutrin or Proponolol instead of a straight stimulant like Ritalin or Aderall is because ADHD can in many cases be clustered with Depression, Anxiety, or other mood disorders (which are in the "chemical imbalance" group, and knocking out one can help the other). So, short story long, there's no contradiction; but like with most things, there can be multiple root causes for a single, broadly defined outcome like procrastination.
- RickS 7y ago
  Difficulty regulating emotions is a component of ADHD. ADHD is a shortcoming of executive function, which manages near-term memory and keeps people "on task". "I'm going to endure this unpleasantness for a better future" is a goal that requires executive function to hang on to – you have to continue grasping it with the part of your subconscious that ADHD undermines. So you end up prone to a brand of nearsighted emotional hedonism because it's difficult to keep track of the "why"s that motivate long term management of emotions. It's basically time blindness. In other words, keeping your cool, keeping your word, and keeping your car keys are all "keep doing X", and ADHD will kneecap all of those in equal measure. A second component – and this is just anecdotal – is that ADHD makes the emotional component of procrastination worse. You drop tasks more often, and if you've got any self awareness at all, you'll notice that. Of course you feel a little bad about it. Now noticing dropped tasks makes you feel a bit worse. But your ADHD means dropping more threads, so you feel more badly more often. The pit of emotional misregulation surrounding procrastination gets steeper, faster, for someone with ADHD, because there's a compounding fit where you're twice as likely to take blows to your productivity, and half as able to recover.
walkingpigeon 7y ago
I've seen this article coming up several times, I really want to finish reading it, yet I procrastinate.
mynegation 7y ago
I have a theory that different things work for different people and not all things work for all people. Any particular book or blog post should not be taken as a gospel but rather a set of tools from which you can try and pick up what works for you. What worked for me: (1) getting more sleep - counterintuitive, as one gets less time to be productive, but I find that sleep deprivation affects my mood, attention, and executive function big time (2) writing it down and drawing up my day hour by hour. Even if I do not follow the plan to the tee - it helps me visualize the day and find large chunk of times that are best for getting into the zone (3) batching up small but mundane tasks and sticking them into the short available chunks of time that would not be good for deep work, then focus on this list of tasks and racing to compete as many of them as possible, using the short rush of pleasure of completing one task as a burst of energy for the next one and create momentum.
- outworlder 7y ago
  > then focus on this list of tasks and racing to compete as many of them as possible See, this is the piece some people have a problem with. That requires you to actually start those tasks.
hindsightbias 7y ago
There really needs to be some test scale of procrastination since nearly everyone does it. Something like being 5 degrees from Da Vinci (the Mona Lisa took 16 years). My feeling is that anyone w/o an A average going into college should have a first term class in time/study strategies, and register for no more than 4 classes (outside Loafers 101). Many people much brighter than I crashed and burned early in college and our vaunted centers of learning had nothing for them.
rdiddly 7y ago
Standard counterpoint objection here that I'm not sure I "buy" ADHD. How much of it is just "being human" (and in particular "being a young human") in a world that's inhuman? Is it a coincidence that the condition was first "observed" around the onset of industrialization a couple hundred years ago? There are numerous evolutionary advantages to being tuned-in to your environment. Certainly every tribe could've used at least a couple people like that. But in an industrialized world, with industrialized education & work processes, where you're called-upon to sit still for hours doing things that don't matter (and that you hence, don't care about), where subtly you tend to find more success the more you act like an automaton, it's apparently maladaptive, a liability and an aberration. Because we've made it one. It's industrialization itself that's maladaptive.
- Afton 7y ago
  The is sort of the issue with most deviations from neurotypicality. It's a disease only when it stops you from doing what you and society wants you to do. That's why lots of people manage without treatment. But what are you recommending? That people with ADHD should just move somewhere they can live in a non-industrialized setting? I suspect also that you may have an outdated view of ADHD. It's more about a lack of executive function than 'hyperactivity'. In fact one of the ADHD types is 'inattentive'. Did you read the whole article? The author discusses some of this.
  - rdiddly 7y ago
    I'm not recommending anything. This isn't a charged environment like Twitter, where it seems 100% of statements are either recommendations that will FIX THE UNIVERSE, or attempts by opponents to misconstrue them as same, for purpose of finding fault (since no recommendation will ever be 100% valid in all cases). RE reading the article, that's where I'm getting it. "My mind flutters from the window to reading the little scribbles people left on the desk to my imagination and then back out again" = I am observant of my environment and probably the first one to be aware of new opportunities or threats arising from that environment. And I dream. "I'm really prone to letting my thoughts get off on the worst tangents..." = I pay attention to tangential (i.e. "touching," related) things and take action on them, investigate them. She looks them up on Wikipedia, learns all about them, and suffers no loss of attentiveness when the topic is meaningful to her and chosen by her. Given that new knowledge tends to come most readily from tangents, and not from out of the blue, and not from some well-intentioned-but-flawed, "legible" (i.e. bureaucratic/"makes logical sense"/industrialized) lesson plan, this is not a bad approach to learning. The problem only comes when you need to get through school, where those lesson plans are de rigueur and the pertinent skill is actually overruling/ignoring what you are interested in and not taking action on it. Huge waste BTW, whether ADHD or not. "Executive function" - well I would simply open the question of whether the "executive" (slight pun) who is in charge, inside us, is always the one who we think it is. Our parents'/teachers' voices, or our own? Something is always being executed, even when we're not executing on our plan to do homework. The "fitting in, getting by" part of you made a plan to do homework, but the (I would argue) real part of you already realizes it's all silly bullshit & doesn't matter. The former is the one we reward with good grades & good jobs, but the latter is the one who's right.
ellius 7y ago
A lot of people here are defending ADHD/procrastination, and while I agree with a lot of the points (especially the one about industrialization being maladaptive), it's worth considering the personal cost of not mitigating these behaviors. "Rework" ends with a good quote about inspiration being a diminishing resource. You might feel really passionate about some big project, but if you don't have the skills to organize, plan, and implement the subtasks required to get it done, your enthusiasm will eventually wane and you'll never bring it to life. This happened to me perpetually throughout my twenties and I've lost track of how many good ideas I had that died on the vine because I lacked the skill to bring them to life. Figuring out how to create a system that works for you and allows you to capture and make progress on your ideas is hugely valuable. I understand the concern about becoming a slave to a system, but letting your potential wither away is an equally unpleasant fate.
- taurath 7y ago
  Its not a workflow problem, organization problem or motivation problem. Often one can be organized, motivated, and have the skills, but be unable to apply energy towards the problem.
carlisle_ 7y ago
To try and provide feedback without being critical, the way you bold text from "So What's Up?" and through "Tips and Tricks" is very distracting. Since you use bold text for titles and the list items in that "So What's Up?" section, bold text is structural and serves a purpose to separate ideas. You overload it a bit by bolding long phrases you wish to draw the reader's attention to. You use bold text well before and after these sections, when you're only bolding a few words at most at a time. Once you start bolding whole phrases your paragraphs start looking like striped lines. It was very distracting to try to follow your sentences when my attention is getting drawn to all the bolded text around me. It almost felt wrong at times to read the plain formatted text. Your content was very engaging and I relate to it quite a bit. The illustrations are fantastic thanks for posting.
- InvisibleUp 7y ago
  That's a fair take. I was trying something out and I wasn't sure how well it would work. Maybe just slightly lighter/darker text would work better.
- mlnhd 7y ago
  I think the bolded parts were really good for emphasis. I’ve found myself thinking those exact thoughts ever since I suspected I suffered from ADHD, and I plan to quote them at my doctors when I seek my own ADHD diagnosis.
aexq36 7y ago
Like with all things, laziness/conscientiousness exists on a spectrum, and it's hard to tell where normal variation crosses over into pathology. I do have to wonder if self-proclaimed laziness among nerdy types comes from a tendency to set very high standards for ourselves and to compare ourselves with extraordinarily productive people. I think the average human being might be lazier than we give them credit for. The author complains about not being able to stop browsing reddit and get out of bed? Well, it seems that's how a great many people choose to spend their time these days if given a choice, so can we really say that's a sign of pathology? You feel like you're not working hard enough on your personal coding/science/art/whatever project? Well, most people don't have any personal projects, they produce very little beyond what is required to make a living, and for the extra amount that they do produce they don't hold themselves to very high standards and they don't care if they ultimately abandon the project, so you're already way ahead of the curve there. I say all this as someone who has had severe problems with laziness and I empathize with the author of the article a lot, so I'm not trying to make light of the problem. I'm just suggesting an alternative perspective that may be useful.
DocG 7y ago
I haven't resonated with any article so much before as with this. I literally quit my job, because of these reasons. I'll sign myself up for a therapist now. Thanks.
nehagup 7y ago
Level of procastinating - post 2019 posted in 2020
0xff00ffee 7y ago
EDIT: My apologies. I was overcome with a bout of head-in-ass-syndrome.
- trcollinson 7y ago
  Actually, I think it's your tone. There are other people who are expressing similar ideas in this thread and are being upvoted. I'll also correct you, since your last statement is wrong. I procrastinate a lot. I am also extremely successful by most measures. I have a lot of education and an advanced degree. I have started companies and sold them. I have worked for VCs. I consult. I make a lot more money than almost anyone else in the world by percentage. I did ALL of those things while fighting with and tackling procrastination. And sometimes, I lose. I lose really hard. I procrastinate for weeks on important things that could take minutes. I am glad you don't have these social anxieties and disorders. But they are quite real and take real work to get past. Successful people are not those who don't procrastinate. Successful people are those who take challenges and find ways to work around them.
- RickS 7y ago
  First, the other commenters are correct. Your tone is needlessly hostile. Would you talk to a cashier like this? Or a peer at work? I hope not. Anyway, related to your actual post – you said: > Buckle up and get it done, it's that simple. Would you tell a depressed person > Cheer up and go outside, it's that simple. If so, what evidence do you have that this is an effective treatment? If not, what makes the two situations (w/r/r "culpability" for ones cognitive abilities) different?
  - 0xff00ffee 7y ago
    >> Buckle up and get it done, it's that simple. > Would you tell a depressed person Yes I would absolutely tell that to a depressed person. And I have said it. I was depressed for a decade. And yet people spoke to me this way, because that's life. I was on antidepressants. I took care of my problem(s) and I still got my job done while struggling, medicating, and going to therapy. A big part of therapy was learning to separate "them" from "me" in my internal dialog. You know what? I'm glad someone spoke to me that way. It got me up and motivated to work on myself. I can't imagine how poorly I would have turned out if I was coddled and allowed to stay in bed and read about all of these new pop-psych diseases I could blame. But that's just me. Maybe I can reach someone the way I was reached. However, you are conflating two completely unrelated things. I am not responsible for your internal mental state, nor is anyone responsible for mine. This is a crucial skill that I believe is sorely lacking.
yardshop 7y ago
I'm procrastinating so hard today that I don't even feel like reading procrastination articles on HN! Yesterday was decent, I started off a bit sluggish but okay, but by mid afternoon I really got going and got a bunch of good things done. I was actually on a productivity high! Today I came in with that same good energy, and then an alert came in: "user suchNsuch has been blocked due to high volume of suspicious emails sent!" Damn! Total derail. I've been able to do the basics to mitigate that situation, but lost all of my enthusiasm for other projects. Maybe getting out of the office for a second lunch will help! If I feel like reading these articles after, I will know some progress has been made.
- yardshop 7y ago
  Well, after posting that, I felt better. Then I ate my salad while looking at those articles. Then I was able to take on some helpdesk tickets, and am gearing up to do the projects I'm actually interested in and most reluctant to start. I definitely agree with the other procrastination post today that its mostly to do with emotional state. Part of the issue at work is that I hesitate to get into big projects when I know I will just be interrupted by trivial shit again. Beyond that it's just mustering up the discipline to make myself start. It's not really that hard, but it still feels like it is.
curo 7y ago
Best advice I've ever gotten: don't overthink it (procrastination, ADHD, productivity systems, etc). Trying to fight the mind with more concepts is like trying to fight the wind with a kite.
fnord77 7y ago
I have the exact symptoms and behavior as this person. I found that 10mg of desipramine once a night obliterated most of the procrastination.
cryptica 7y ago
Procrastination has a good return on investment. You invest nothing and you get nothing. Unlike every other investment where you give up your time, your health, your optimism and you get nothing.
rhacker 7y ago
Something tells me these articles on procrastination are generally permanently relevant to the people that view HN during business hours (me included). I am curious if the number of hits per day has dropped as a result of posting them a lot this week!
alexashka 7y ago
Procrastination is not a problem. Having to go to school and listen to dimwits recite largely useless information for 12 years and demand that you memorize it is demoralizing. It should be demoralizing, because it's bullshit and it's not what you want to be doing. The key takeaway is that if you don't become excellent at something that society appreciates (will pay good money for), the remainder of your life will be spent with dimwits at work. The solution to being in a shitty situation is seeing a clear path out, not pills and blog articles.
erobbins 7y ago
It's like a brain dump from my head. I can 100% identify with everything this guy says. I've been fighting this since I can remember, certainly over 20 years. I thought I was the only one who never looked at grades/feedback/whatever. I'd probably be a CTO or a successful startup founder by now if I'd had a solution early in life. As it is I've done OK but it's always a struggle because work by its very nature is doing something you don't want to do because they're paying you... and doing something I don't want to do is very VERY hard. Almost impossible at times. If you're a teenager or in your 20s, try and get some help now so you don't toil in futility for the next 20 years. Trust me.
- outworlder 7y ago
  > it's always a struggle because work by its very nature is doing something you don't want to do because they're paying you... and doing something I don't want to do is very VERY hard. Almost impossible at times. I'm pretty successful by most people's (external) measures. But every single day is a miserable fight against my own brain. Some coping mechanisms are really harmful. > If you're a teenager or in your 20s, try and get some help now so you don't toil in futility for the next 20 years. Trust me. I second that.
- tikhonj 7y ago
  > ...work by its very nature is doing something you don't want to do because they're paying you... I emphasize with this, and work certainly has this aspect, but I think there's a better way to think about it: the nature of work is doing something valuable to somebody else for money. You don't get money for doing something you dislike and, crucially, people will still pay you to do useful things even if you enjoy them! The practical upside is that it is possible to find work you enjoy. There is nothing wrong with prioritizing this as much as you are able, and you shouldn't feel guilty once you do find work you enjoy. It's easy to internalize a Puritan "work as penance" point of view living in the US, but I think it's not a useful (or accurate) way to think about it. Of course, none of this changes your conclusion—if you feel this way, you should get some help. And, hell, even if you don't feel these things, chatting with a therapist will probably have a healthy effect on your life.
spawarotti 7y ago
TL;DR: "Most people don't have problems with procrastination" <CITATION NEEDED> I’ve read the article. I would caution against labeling yourself as having ADHD, IMO it is very dangerous. Every high-achieving person I know has major problem with procrastination. I was nodding while reading the article until the ADHD part. Does it mean we all have ADHD? Consider an alternative: our brains have to operate nonstop at near max capacity just to handle complexities of modern society with computers and Internet. They rebel and as a result we slap them with “defective, ADHD” labels. By analogy, if you would feed somebody ungodly amounts of cake day in, day out, it is no wonder if they develop diabetes. The problem is not that you are inherently defective; the problem is you (or rather – modern society) brought you to the brink and now you wonder why you are breaking down. Perhaps try to unplug for some months in the woods and see if the symptoms persist? If they do, I stand corrected.
- InvisibleUp 7y ago
  Hi, author here. Since I wrote this article, I got professionally diagnosed and treated. Turns out, yeah, I'm doing a lot better now. On most days I don't have these symptoms, I can in fact study for classes and work, while also doing the things I love. I'm getting back into doodling, I've schedules all the appointments I need to, I have a great friend group, etc. etc. It's not perfect, I relapse sometimes, but I'm doing a lot better. I'm not claiming everyone that procrastinates has ADHD. I'm claiming that it's a potential cause of chronic procrastination. Also, I really can't afford to live in the woods for a few months. I still need to pay for rent and food and healthcare and such. I'm glad that's an option for you but I can't do that.
  - KozmoNau7 7y ago
    > "Also, I really can't afford to live in the woods for a few months. I still need to pay for rent and food and healthcare and such. I'm glad that's an option for you but I can't do that." That's exactly a big part of the problem; the way current society makes it impossible for most people to unwind, decouple and truly relax. I'm struggling with my attention span and motivation, so I've been considering getting out of the tech business and greatly reducing stress levels in my life. I've already gotten out of the mindset of always needing to have the latest new thing and the mindset of trying to keep up with the Joneses, but my IT job keeps stressing me out. It's just pointless corporate busywork and dysfunctional processes and workflows all the way down. I want something more straightforward, more beneficial to the world or even just to my local environment. It's never too late to make a change.
anon_d 7y ago
ADHD is your mind violently rebelling against the useless bullshit that you trying to force it to do.
makach 7y ago
I should really be working, but I am reading this article. Please send help.
FullKirby 7y ago
Thanks. I do recognize myself very much in what you described. I've been convinced that I have ADHD for quite a while already, but I always was against the idea of taking medication... I was still doing fine when I was younger, but I'm now somehow unable to focus to do homeworks, at all... I procrastinate, fall so much behind, get super stressed about it, and instead of being motivated like I used to (hello panic monster) I just "crash", panic, give up everything and fail classes. Not great for self-esteem and general happiness. I guess I'll reconsider seeking professional help and medication
zackmorris 7y ago
I just discovered yesterday that I suffer from task anxiety related to ADD/ADHD, after a lifetime of struggling against falling into patterns of depression. It's felt as almost a pain in my gut between my chest and belly whenever I go to start working on something I have to do. I just worked through this series of exercises and it really helped me identify what's actually going on, with some solutions: https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/01/29/taskmaster-getting-things-done/ https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/01/29/taskmaster-getting-t... https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/02/11/task-anxiety-awareness/ https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/02/11/task-anxiety-awarene... https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/02/14/virtue-not-own-reward/ https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/02/14/virtue-not-own-rewar... https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/02/16/doling-out-the-cookies/ https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/02/16/doling-out-the-cooki... https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/02/24/when-the-game-is-rigged/ https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/02/24/when-the-game-is-rig... Some other keywords to look for are "impossible task" and "executive dysfunction", both maladies being seen predominantly in millennials. I just happened to get them 10 or 20 years ahead of time by starting computers when I was 12 as a Gen Xer.
rb808 7y ago
I could be ADHD, I hear a lot of stories about people diagnosed as adults. Surely everyone has trouble getting motivated for boring tasks. Surely everyone would benefit from stimulants though? I'm not sure how to tell the difference.
- InvisibleUp 7y ago
  I (and other people with ADHD) have trouble getting motivated not just for boring tasks, but any task. Even things we want to do. I doubt you've ever procrastinated playing your favorite video game, but I do. A lot. Stimulants also effect people with ADHD differently than those without. I won't pretend nto be an expert on the subject, but stimulants tend to make people with ADHD calmer, able to control their thoughts better, and sometimes even sleepier. People without ADHD tend to feel agitated and jittery and hyper.
Thorentis 7y ago
tl;dr (but do read rest of comment!): give up social media, porn, and TV (including Netflix) for a couple of months. Take up some form of exercise (lifting, running, even pilates or something), and re-evaluate your attention span. --- Not to be offensive to those diagnosed with ADHD or something related, but there is absolutely too much ADHD going around at the moment for it to be a coincidence. My wife is a teacher, and the number of kids "diagnosed" with ADHD is insane. What do they do with their time instead of homework or listening in class? Playing video games for hours on end, browsing social media, sending Snaps, creating Tik Tok videos, watching porn, watching Netflix, and so on ... See a pattern here? Sure, it is probably an old trope at this point, but the entertainment modern society has given us has drastically lowered our attention spans. Those of us in our mid to late 20s are on the border. We didn't grow up with social media, but we're young enough to have started using it fairly early (but not early enough - usually - for it to effect us /too/ badly, though those using it too much have suffered from it). Those a bit younger (high school age, freshman age) are absolutely suffering from it, and God knows how badly the primary and middle schoolers will suffer. In this article, the OP talks about what they do instead of study most of the time: lay in bed and browse Twitter and Reddit. Sorry but - and not to sound trite - but that there is a huge problem. It is not a symptom, it is a problem (not the problem, but it contributes) in and of itself. Cut it out. Unfortunately, I find myself sucked back into social media after giving it up for any length of time, whether by friends, family, a new venture that needs a Facebook page, whatever. But when I do give it up (and I mean all of it: Reddit, Twitter, Facebook, HN, the lot) I am the most productive I have ever been. I get things done. It's not a magic cure, and it must be combined with other stuff (exercise, reading, meditation), but honestly, our lazy modern lives are the cause of most "ADHD" and nothing else.
elfexec 7y ago
"A brand new day and A brand new HN post on Procrastination" I'm starting to see a pattern here. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22125883 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22125883
keyle 7y ago
1999 - the GTD method 2019 - everyone thinks they have ADHD on some level Constant: you're human and you are a fine human. Hormones and interests fluctuate throughout the weeks, months, years. Pursue what feels right. The human brain wasn't designed to pursue long term goals, it takes an extraordinary interest in something for it to be a life goal. Nothing is ever finished, it's just tabled for now. One day you'll be old and leave all that crap behind for the next generation. It's nature.
ncfausti 7y ago
As a 33 year old who was just diagnosed with ADHD, a few minutes into reading this I knew exactly where it was going. For me, it was when I watched Dr. Russell Barkley's talk[1] and halfway through, it brought me to tears. No one before then had described exactly the way I felt on a daily basis. Since going through a full day of neuropsychological testing and being diagnosed with ADHD-I and starting medication, I feel like the me I think I am, naturally curious, optimistic, and actually following through with the things that interest me. Planning and grad school assignments just click so effortlessly now, and my stress is way down, as I am completing things in a timely manner and not fighting myself at every step of the way. If any of this resonates with you, please talk with a psychiatrist to see if this is something you're unknowingly (and unnecessarily) struggling with. Also,if you're like me and like listening to audio books at 2 or 3x speed, check out Speechify, it allows you to listen to any kind of text including rough scans of books/PDFs. It's been incredibly helpful for required readings in classes. edit: wrong video url [1] https://youtu.be/_tpB-B8BXk0 https://youtu.be/_tpB-B8BXk0
asimjalis 7y ago
So how did you fix it? What was the solution?
- InvisibleUp 7y ago
  Went to my therapist. Explained my symptoms. Took a few tests, got a diagnosis, fiddled with medications and dosages for a while, did some more therapy, and I seem to be in a good spot now. Obviously, YMMV regarding the effectiveness of your treatment. I'm still sometimes up and down but the baseline is higher. Even if you decide not to take medication (it's not right for everyone and I won't pretend otherwise), do seek therapy. It's so incredibly helpful.
taurath 7y ago
By the point that the author had come upon what was "going on" I was literally afraid for myself since they had described EXACTLY what I've been doing and going through for so much of my life.
shreyshrey 7y ago
I struggle with this as well. Now i prioritize all my tasks in my brain. Over the years tried quite a few systems: tiddly wiki, gtd, zero inbox and onenote. Nothing worked for me.
speedplane 7y ago
I don't have a problem with procrastination, and I don't feel guilty about it. I think it's optimal. Generally, try to find out the last day something is due, figure out if that's a hard or soft deadline (if soft, get an extension), estimate how long it'll take to do the work, and then start the work exactly within that time limit. Doing it any sooner means that you're likely putting off even earlier deadlines. Procrastinating is not a problem, submitting work late or low quality is.
techsin101 7y ago
What helped me: - travelling and staying in a hotel for a month. Just job and hotel. All bookmarks, Todo lists, and everything else like that gone. Helped me forget it all and have a clear mind. - brushing teeth twice. I saw study that linked gum disease to depression. Aka unhealthy mind. I feel keeping mouth clean keeps inflammation down. I feel really positive once I had dental cleaning and decided I want to continue feeling that. - sleep apnea treatment with CPAP machine. It works I get tired 5 hours late now. before I'd be tired by 2pm, now I'm tired by 11 pm. I hate the mask I'm gonna get p10 that goes into nostrils I've nasal mask which sits under the noise and I feel it's affecting my teeth by putting gradual pressure. - accomplishing anything. I did an online course. Something different than my usual grind. And in world of evolving frameworks where you can never be good. It was refereshing to take the test and pass it many tests. Grow confidence. - don't mess your internal rythm. Just how blue light can alter your cycle so can eating very much. Infact there was a study by Harvard that to counter just lag and start waking up at certain time, fast almost a day then wake up at the time you wanna wake up daily and have big breakfast. It will instantly changes internal clock. So eating past 5-6pm is very bad. With Exception of milk.

425 points by InvisibleUp 7y ago

Calendars and to-do lists matter, but the unpleasant aspect of these things is that I become a human scheduler, similar to an operating system scheduler. The scheduling function consumes so much time on its own, and it's psychologically uncomfortable. Dare I say it: I don't like context switches and would prefer first come first serve, until completion. The real world, however, is unforgiving on which scheduler I can choose.

kitd 7y ago

All these procrastination articles are obviously finding their target audience here on HN!

idclip 7y ago
Upvote this man
rb808 7y ago
I think all the developers out there who are actually doing work aren't here to upvote other topics.
- fxtentacle 7y ago
  My code is compiling ;) No, really, I'm waiting for an O(n^4) algorithm to finish processing a full HD frame to confirm that it works before I put in the effort of building a GPU version.
dredmorbius 7y ago
We need to extend the "noprocast" feature to address this.
- marcosdumay 7y ago
  The noprocast feature does not work for me because if I am not procrastinating, I will open several tabs and keep them there for short breaks during the day. The noprocast rules will only accept my procrastinating behavior.
J-dawg 7y ago
I sometimes feel like these articles are popular because procrastination is just a universal part of the human condition. I doubt anyone scrolls past these articles and thinks “that doesn’t affect me at all”. I procrastinate to the point where it’s causing me real problems in life, yet it feels kinda indulgent to say that as if I’m the victim of some disease, when I’m actually just failing to deal with something that’s hard for everyone. Perhaps this feeling is actually contributing to the problem, because I’m continually frustrated that I can’t just snap out of it like (most) other people.
- VBprogrammer 7y ago
  I think that might be the British in us. I feel like Americans are much more open to diagnosis of mental conditions like anxiety and depression. Perhaps because they are constantly bombarded with advertising for medications for them and other conditions.
  - J-dawg 7y ago
    You might well be right. But a diagnosis of what? I’ve often wondered whether I have ADHD, but I don’t have the other symptoms of forgetfulness, disorganisation and hyperactivity. Procrastination is a huge problem for me and I’d love to have a label for it, but I don’t think procrastination alone qualifies as a mental disorder.
    - VBprogrammer 7y ago
      I guess I'm the same in a lot of ways. I can end up in a spiral of self destructive procrastination. I do identify with some of the other symptoms and experiences but not all of them. In truth I think that a binary classification is too much of a blunt instrument. The reality is probably more of a spectrum.
- outworlder 7y ago
  > I sometimes feel like these articles are popular because procrastination is just a universal part of the human condition. I doubt anyone scrolls past these articles and thinks “that doesn’t affect me at all”. It's normal, to a degree. When you are failing classes and having problems with your job, relationships and even your hobbies, then it is no longer normal.

glofish 7y ago

I like these upvoted posts on procrastination. Feels like the HN community (like myself) struggles with this. Nowadays I embrace procrastination as necessary "evil". Unlike the cited post, I don't think one needs "help" with that - it might just backfire even more. I have come to believe that procrastination is a healthy and necessary condition for outstanding productivity. It is like REM sleep or something :-) I think that without some level of procrastination nothing amazing would ever be done.

InvisibleUp 7y ago
A certain level of procrastination is healthy. We're not meant to be machines, constantly productive 24/7. Downtime to enjoy your life, consume creative works, and unwind is good. I'm not talking about that here. I'm talking about severe procrastination, when it's very difficult to do the work you need to do. The goal is to strike a healthy balance.

rootusrootus 7y ago

It's like this guy has been inside my head. Sometimes I feel exactly he same way, do the same things (well, not Twitter), with the same thoughts and results. There have been times when I refresh HN and say "you're not even enjoying this, why do you keep looking?"

hashkb 7y ago
It's not a guy.
- InvisibleUp 7y ago
  She's not an it, either.
  - seoulsubway 7y ago
    Calm down dude. It doesn't matter what people use to reference a third body.
  - hashkb 7y ago
    That's true. It's less wrong; and my intent was to add a bit of fun. Sorry, guy.
- rootusrootus 7y ago
  I use "guy" generically, I don't read content with gender in mind unless it is pertinent. She did not express a preference (or I missed it).
  - hashkb 7y ago
    You missed it! If you're going to comment on someone's article, and their blog has an "about" page, read it before leaving the comment. It's baseline etiquette.

kleborp 7y ago

The post linked within this post was really illuminating for me: https://gekk.info/articles/adhd.html https://gekk.info/articles/adhd.html The section on why notecards and todo lists have never worked for him (and for me) was particularly salient: "The problem with "systems" is that they are authorities. They have to be. If you decide "I'll prioritize things with a stack of notecards" then you are telling yourself the following: "The notecards replace my own brain. Everything that I do must be on a notecard. If it isn't on a notecard, it can't be done. If I want it done, it has to be on a notecard." The problem is that when you have a crisis (a day full of emergencies) that forces you to break from this system you will lose all respect for its authority. Your brain will learn that it doesn't have to respect the notecards, that they aren't in charge, and this sense of freedom is addictive and will persist. Most ADHD sufferers have left a trail of systems - notecards, whiteboards, lists, post-its, apps, alarms - that worked great for [a month, a week, three days] but are now dead to them, scorched earth we can't return to."

aequitas 7y ago
You can use this to your advantage to create peace of mind as I found out. The mechanism you describe is what is the basis for the "Getting things done" framework. You learn your brain to "trust" the "authority" so it can let go of all loose ends that keep your brain busy (like stuff it needs to remember, like appointment, paying a bill, fixing something in the house, etc). But if you are able to trick your brain in not checking in with the authority (as GTD dictates) you are left with a lot of spare room in your brain to think creative, at least thats my theory.
- fireontheroad 7y ago
  I have ADD, and I can speak to the GTD framework being an extremely useful tool. In my case I use Trello to run what I call my "Digital Brain". I use a typical kanban wip system (Backlog, Today, Blocked, Done) to organize pretty much all task-related things in my life and it works extremely well. Once I know its on the trello board, I know I don't have to worry about keeping it in my head anymore, and that gives me a lot more space to relax and not worry things are being missed/forgotten.

idclip 7y ago

Remember, idle hands are the devil’s playground.

cryptozeus 7y ago

Procrastination articles start to appear on HN as we get close to end of January. There is a lesson in there somewhere.

jraph 7y ago
Possible explanation: one has appeared here by chance a few days ago, and then people read stuff about procratination on their own and some are submitting some of this stuff here.
tdsamardzhiev 7y ago
Man, I feel like it's the 75th of January already. Does this month ever end?
- marcosdumay 7y ago
  January is usually longer than the remaining of the year. Enjoy while it lasts.

keyanp 7y ago

"I find it extraordinarily difficult to just... relax. Sit on a bench and watch the clouds. [...] But even if I'm in that perfect scenario where there's nothing to do... my brain will just fill the void with absurd daydreams and rabbithole trains of thought." This is the case for many (all?) people. I've found that you need to intentionally train your ability to not let your mind do this. I recommend this book for some exercises to help: https://www.amazon.com/Happiness-Mindfulness-Thich-Nhat-Hanh/dp/1888375914 https://www.amazon.com/Happiness-Mindfulness-Thich-Nhat-Hanh...

fxtentacle 7y ago
I have the exact same thing, but I always thought of it as a brilliant feature, not as a problem. As soon as I sit around and get bored, my brain will make up absurd daydreams and stories. Usually they are pretty funny, so afterwards I feel relaxed and happy. Isn't that the whole point of taking a break?
- jlangemeier 7y ago
  Imagine that brilliant feature isn't just "a break" but the norm... it's not just "when I get bored," it's: - In the middle of flow - Trying to fall asleep - Trying to go back to sleep - In the middle of important conversations - During meetings - even one's you're leading - When you're getting dressed - When you're making breakfast (where the hell did I put the 3rd spoon I've pulled from the drawer) - When you're in intimate moments with a partner (or by yourself - no judgement here) - When you're making lunch (just burned my second grilled cheese because I can't stay on task for 5 minutes) - During exercise - During free-time and hobbies - Between small tasks - In the middle of small tasks - etc - etc - etc The article itself is about the issues surrounding the person's ADHD, not just "procrastination," which for many people is a good thing, because it's a brain break; but for many of us with ADHD it's the norm and a cycle we have to fight instead of embrace.
  - fxtentacle 7y ago
    That would be super annoying, I concur. I would say the article nicely highlights the problems with ADHD diagnosis, because when I read it, I thought for pretty much every point "oh I also do that sometimes"

3minus1 7y ago

> I'm really prone to letting my thoughts get off on the worst tangents, and it will take a while to get myself back on track Sometimes I'll be listening to an audiobook and I'll start thinking about something else. By rewinding the audiobook I can figure out how long the distraction was (could be over a minute). It also amazes me how I have no recollection of the portions of the audiobook that were playing while I was distracted.

meowface 7y ago
This happens to me a lot, but it often ends up being 5+ minutes lost.
pmoriarty 7y ago
I've mostly been able to solve this problem (unless I'm really frazzled and have a lot of other things on my mind) by adjusting the audiobook's playback speed. Too slow and I'll be bored and my mind will wander a lot, and too fast and I'll miss chunks even with the smallest mind wandering. The sweet spot is somewhere in the middle. For reading written material, I found a trick that worked for me in college, when I had mountains of assigned books to read. Whenever I noticed my mind wandering, I'd make an arbitrary mark (like a simple checkmark) on a piece of paper and immediately go back to reading. This kept my focus and I was able to barrel through a ton of reading.
tikhonj 7y ago
Happens to me with audiobooks, physical books, movies... even in-person conversations. The latter can be awkward, but I've gotten pretty good at guessing what I missed, or asking reasonable questions to get myself back on track :).
Mirioron 7y ago
Letting the mind wander like that is precisely why I read books in the first place. Sometimes I'll only read one chapter in 3 hours and the rest is just daydreaming.

joshklein 7y ago

I recommend “Procrastination” by Burka & Yuen. For the kind of person who frequents this site and endures suffering due to procrastination, even seeing their clinical definition of maladaptive perfectionism (and learning why procrastinating provides relief from it) could reduce your level of anxiety and self-flagellation, if not help you change your behavior. The first section of their book provides a framework for understanding what is happening when you procrastinate, then orients your investigation into the underlying causes specific to you (or those not applicable to you). The book's second section offers self-directed cognitive behavioral therapies. "Procrastination" is based on decades of the authors’ clinical experience. The 25th anniversary edition pulls in updated academic research from as far afield as behavioral economics (future discounting) that didn't exist when the book was first published. [This comment is a reposted version of one of my own previous comments]

pmoriarty 7y ago
Along similar lines, there's a fantastic video by procrastination researcher Tim Pychyl here: [1] I've watched a ton of videos on procrastination, and read a lot about it, and this video is head and shoulders above everything else. Highly recommended. He also has the iProcrastinate Podcast[2], which also has some useful and interesting episodes. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhFQA998WiA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhFQA998WiA [2] - http://iprocrastinate.libsyn.com/ http://iprocrastinate.libsyn.com/

tempsy 7y ago

Doesn’t this contradict the other article that was upvoted on how procrastination is more emotional than anything else? To say it is ADHD is to suggest it is neurological e.g. some chemical imbalance in the brain, but if it’s really an emotional response then saying you have ADHD is more like pointing out the symptom rather than the cause here.

jlangemeier 7y ago
This isn't saying that __ALL__ procrastination is ADHD, and the other article didn't say that __ALL__ procrastination is emotional. This article is saying that this specific person's procrastination is linked to their ADHD - and even covers some of the emotional response portion (the section on feedback dysphoria). Most psychologists and psychiatrists worth their salt will tell you that ADHD and Anxiety are kissing-cousins; and will usually look for the other if someone has one of them. Guess what is a great emotional inhibitor to doing things... Anxiety. More generally, a strong emotional response of any kind could be considered as a chemical imbalance by how you're categorizing ADHD. ADHD isn't as hard and fast assigned a "chemical imbalance" like Depression, and more closely related to Asperger/Autism as an executive function/communication disorder (via DSM 4r9 and all of DSM 5). The reason that some of us are given something like Welbutrin or Proponolol instead of a straight stimulant like Ritalin or Aderall is because ADHD can in many cases be clustered with Depression, Anxiety, or other mood disorders (which are in the "chemical imbalance" group, and knocking out one can help the other). So, short story long, there's no contradiction; but like with most things, there can be multiple root causes for a single, broadly defined outcome like procrastination.
RickS 7y ago
Difficulty regulating emotions is a component of ADHD. ADHD is a shortcoming of executive function, which manages near-term memory and keeps people "on task". "I'm going to endure this unpleasantness for a better future" is a goal that requires executive function to hang on to – you have to continue grasping it with the part of your subconscious that ADHD undermines. So you end up prone to a brand of nearsighted emotional hedonism because it's difficult to keep track of the "why"s that motivate long term management of emotions. It's basically time blindness. In other words, keeping your cool, keeping your word, and keeping your car keys are all "keep doing X", and ADHD will kneecap all of those in equal measure. A second component – and this is just anecdotal – is that ADHD makes the emotional component of procrastination worse. You drop tasks more often, and if you've got any self awareness at all, you'll notice that. Of course you feel a little bad about it. Now noticing dropped tasks makes you feel a bit worse. But your ADHD means dropping more threads, so you feel more badly more often. The pit of emotional misregulation surrounding procrastination gets steeper, faster, for someone with ADHD, because there's a compounding fit where you're twice as likely to take blows to your productivity, and half as able to recover.

walkingpigeon 7y ago

I've seen this article coming up several times, I really want to finish reading it, yet I procrastinate.

mynegation 7y ago

I have a theory that different things work for different people and not all things work for all people. Any particular book or blog post should not be taken as a gospel but rather a set of tools from which you can try and pick up what works for you. What worked for me: (1) getting more sleep - counterintuitive, as one gets less time to be productive, but I find that sleep deprivation affects my mood, attention, and executive function big time (2) writing it down and drawing up my day hour by hour. Even if I do not follow the plan to the tee - it helps me visualize the day and find large chunk of times that are best for getting into the zone (3) batching up small but mundane tasks and sticking them into the short available chunks of time that would not be good for deep work, then focus on this list of tasks and racing to compete as many of them as possible, using the short rush of pleasure of completing one task as a burst of energy for the next one and create momentum.

outworlder 7y ago
> then focus on this list of tasks and racing to compete as many of them as possible See, this is the piece some people have a problem with. That requires you to actually start those tasks.

hindsightbias 7y ago

There really needs to be some test scale of procrastination since nearly everyone does it. Something like being 5 degrees from Da Vinci (the Mona Lisa took 16 years). My feeling is that anyone w/o an A average going into college should have a first term class in time/study strategies, and register for no more than 4 classes (outside Loafers 101). Many people much brighter than I crashed and burned early in college and our vaunted centers of learning had nothing for them.

rdiddly 7y ago

Standard counterpoint objection here that I'm not sure I "buy" ADHD. How much of it is just "being human" (and in particular "being a young human") in a world that's inhuman? Is it a coincidence that the condition was first "observed" around the onset of industrialization a couple hundred years ago? There are numerous evolutionary advantages to being tuned-in to your environment. Certainly every tribe could've used at least a couple people like that. But in an industrialized world, with industrialized education & work processes, where you're called-upon to sit still for hours doing things that don't matter (and that you hence, don't care about), where subtly you tend to find more success the more you act like an automaton, it's apparently maladaptive, a liability and an aberration. Because we've made it one. It's industrialization itself that's maladaptive.

Afton 7y ago
The is sort of the issue with most deviations from neurotypicality. It's a disease only when it stops you from doing what you and society wants you to do. That's why lots of people manage without treatment. But what are you recommending? That people with ADHD should just move somewhere they can live in a non-industrialized setting? I suspect also that you may have an outdated view of ADHD. It's more about a lack of executive function than 'hyperactivity'. In fact one of the ADHD types is 'inattentive'. Did you read the whole article? The author discusses some of this.
- rdiddly 7y ago
  I'm not recommending anything. This isn't a charged environment like Twitter, where it seems 100% of statements are either recommendations that will FIX THE UNIVERSE, or attempts by opponents to misconstrue them as same, for purpose of finding fault (since no recommendation will ever be 100% valid in all cases). RE reading the article, that's where I'm getting it. "My mind flutters from the window to reading the little scribbles people left on the desk to my imagination and then back out again" = I am observant of my environment and probably the first one to be aware of new opportunities or threats arising from that environment. And I dream. "I'm really prone to letting my thoughts get off on the worst tangents..." = I pay attention to tangential (i.e. "touching," related) things and take action on them, investigate them. She looks them up on Wikipedia, learns all about them, and suffers no loss of attentiveness when the topic is meaningful to her and chosen by her. Given that new knowledge tends to come most readily from tangents, and not from out of the blue, and not from some well-intentioned-but-flawed, "legible" (i.e. bureaucratic/"makes logical sense"/industrialized) lesson plan, this is not a bad approach to learning. The problem only comes when you need to get through school, where those lesson plans are de rigueur and the pertinent skill is actually overruling/ignoring what you are interested in and not taking action on it. Huge waste BTW, whether ADHD or not. "Executive function" - well I would simply open the question of whether the "executive" (slight pun) who is in charge, inside us, is always the one who we think it is. Our parents'/teachers' voices, or our own? Something is always being executed, even when we're not executing on our plan to do homework. The "fitting in, getting by" part of you made a plan to do homework, but the (I would argue) real part of you already realizes it's all silly bullshit & doesn't matter. The former is the one we reward with good grades & good jobs, but the latter is the one who's right.

ellius 7y ago

A lot of people here are defending ADHD/procrastination, and while I agree with a lot of the points (especially the one about industrialization being maladaptive), it's worth considering the personal cost of not mitigating these behaviors. "Rework" ends with a good quote about inspiration being a diminishing resource. You might feel really passionate about some big project, but if you don't have the skills to organize, plan, and implement the subtasks required to get it done, your enthusiasm will eventually wane and you'll never bring it to life. This happened to me perpetually throughout my twenties and I've lost track of how many good ideas I had that died on the vine because I lacked the skill to bring them to life. Figuring out how to create a system that works for you and allows you to capture and make progress on your ideas is hugely valuable. I understand the concern about becoming a slave to a system, but letting your potential wither away is an equally unpleasant fate.

taurath 7y ago
Its not a workflow problem, organization problem or motivation problem. Often one can be organized, motivated, and have the skills, but be unable to apply energy towards the problem.

carlisle_ 7y ago

To try and provide feedback without being critical, the way you bold text from "So What's Up?" and through "Tips and Tricks" is very distracting. Since you use bold text for titles and the list items in that "So What's Up?" section, bold text is structural and serves a purpose to separate ideas. You overload it a bit by bolding long phrases you wish to draw the reader's attention to. You use bold text well before and after these sections, when you're only bolding a few words at most at a time. Once you start bolding whole phrases your paragraphs start looking like striped lines. It was very distracting to try to follow your sentences when my attention is getting drawn to all the bolded text around me. It almost felt wrong at times to read the plain formatted text. Your content was very engaging and I relate to it quite a bit. The illustrations are fantastic thanks for posting.

InvisibleUp 7y ago
That's a fair take. I was trying something out and I wasn't sure how well it would work. Maybe just slightly lighter/darker text would work better.
mlnhd 7y ago
I think the bolded parts were really good for emphasis. I’ve found myself thinking those exact thoughts ever since I suspected I suffered from ADHD, and I plan to quote them at my doctors when I seek my own ADHD diagnosis.

aexq36 7y ago

Like with all things, laziness/conscientiousness exists on a spectrum, and it's hard to tell where normal variation crosses over into pathology. I do have to wonder if self-proclaimed laziness among nerdy types comes from a tendency to set very high standards for ourselves and to compare ourselves with extraordinarily productive people. I think the average human being might be lazier than we give them credit for. The author complains about not being able to stop browsing reddit and get out of bed? Well, it seems that's how a great many people choose to spend their time these days if given a choice, so can we really say that's a sign of pathology? You feel like you're not working hard enough on your personal coding/science/art/whatever project? Well, most people don't have any personal projects, they produce very little beyond what is required to make a living, and for the extra amount that they do produce they don't hold themselves to very high standards and they don't care if they ultimately abandon the project, so you're already way ahead of the curve there. I say all this as someone who has had severe problems with laziness and I empathize with the author of the article a lot, so I'm not trying to make light of the problem. I'm just suggesting an alternative perspective that may be useful.

DocG 7y ago

I haven't resonated with any article so much before as with this. I literally quit my job, because of these reasons. I'll sign myself up for a therapist now. Thanks.

nehagup 7y ago

Level of procastinating - post 2019 posted in 2020

0xff00ffee 7y ago

EDIT: My apologies. I was overcome with a bout of head-in-ass-syndrome.

trcollinson 7y ago
Actually, I think it's your tone. There are other people who are expressing similar ideas in this thread and are being upvoted. I'll also correct you, since your last statement is wrong. I procrastinate a lot. I am also extremely successful by most measures. I have a lot of education and an advanced degree. I have started companies and sold them. I have worked for VCs. I consult. I make a lot more money than almost anyone else in the world by percentage. I did ALL of those things while fighting with and tackling procrastination. And sometimes, I lose. I lose really hard. I procrastinate for weeks on important things that could take minutes. I am glad you don't have these social anxieties and disorders. But they are quite real and take real work to get past. Successful people are not those who don't procrastinate. Successful people are those who take challenges and find ways to work around them.
RickS 7y ago
First, the other commenters are correct. Your tone is needlessly hostile. Would you talk to a cashier like this? Or a peer at work? I hope not. Anyway, related to your actual post – you said: > Buckle up and get it done, it's that simple. Would you tell a depressed person > Cheer up and go outside, it's that simple. If so, what evidence do you have that this is an effective treatment? If not, what makes the two situations (w/r/r "culpability" for ones cognitive abilities) different?
- 0xff00ffee 7y ago
  >> Buckle up and get it done, it's that simple. > Would you tell a depressed person Yes I would absolutely tell that to a depressed person. And I have said it. I was depressed for a decade. And yet people spoke to me this way, because that's life. I was on antidepressants. I took care of my problem(s) and I still got my job done while struggling, medicating, and going to therapy. A big part of therapy was learning to separate "them" from "me" in my internal dialog. You know what? I'm glad someone spoke to me that way. It got me up and motivated to work on myself. I can't imagine how poorly I would have turned out if I was coddled and allowed to stay in bed and read about all of these new pop-psych diseases I could blame. But that's just me. Maybe I can reach someone the way I was reached. However, you are conflating two completely unrelated things. I am not responsible for your internal mental state, nor is anyone responsible for mine. This is a crucial skill that I believe is sorely lacking.

yardshop 7y ago

I'm procrastinating so hard today that I don't even feel like reading procrastination articles on HN! Yesterday was decent, I started off a bit sluggish but okay, but by mid afternoon I really got going and got a bunch of good things done. I was actually on a productivity high! Today I came in with that same good energy, and then an alert came in: "user suchNsuch has been blocked due to high volume of suspicious emails sent!" Damn! Total derail. I've been able to do the basics to mitigate that situation, but lost all of my enthusiasm for other projects. Maybe getting out of the office for a second lunch will help! If I feel like reading these articles after, I will know some progress has been made.

yardshop 7y ago
Well, after posting that, I felt better. Then I ate my salad while looking at those articles. Then I was able to take on some helpdesk tickets, and am gearing up to do the projects I'm actually interested in and most reluctant to start. I definitely agree with the other procrastination post today that its mostly to do with emotional state. Part of the issue at work is that I hesitate to get into big projects when I know I will just be interrupted by trivial shit again. Beyond that it's just mustering up the discipline to make myself start. It's not really that hard, but it still feels like it is.

curo 7y ago

Best advice I've ever gotten: don't overthink it (procrastination, ADHD, productivity systems, etc). Trying to fight the mind with more concepts is like trying to fight the wind with a kite.

fnord77 7y ago

I have the exact symptoms and behavior as this person. I found that 10mg of desipramine once a night obliterated most of the procrastination.

cryptica 7y ago

Procrastination has a good return on investment. You invest nothing and you get nothing. Unlike every other investment where you give up your time, your health, your optimism and you get nothing.

rhacker 7y ago

Something tells me these articles on procrastination are generally permanently relevant to the people that view HN during business hours (me included). I am curious if the number of hits per day has dropped as a result of posting them a lot this week!

alexashka 7y ago

Procrastination is not a problem. Having to go to school and listen to dimwits recite largely useless information for 12 years and demand that you memorize it is demoralizing. It should be demoralizing, because it's bullshit and it's not what you want to be doing. The key takeaway is that if you don't become excellent at something that society appreciates (will pay good money for), the remainder of your life will be spent with dimwits at work. The solution to being in a shitty situation is seeing a clear path out, not pills and blog articles.

erobbins 7y ago

It's like a brain dump from my head. I can 100% identify with everything this guy says. I've been fighting this since I can remember, certainly over 20 years. I thought I was the only one who never looked at grades/feedback/whatever. I'd probably be a CTO or a successful startup founder by now if I'd had a solution early in life. As it is I've done OK but it's always a struggle because work by its very nature is doing something you don't want to do because they're paying you... and doing something I don't want to do is very VERY hard. Almost impossible at times. If you're a teenager or in your 20s, try and get some help now so you don't toil in futility for the next 20 years. Trust me.

outworlder 7y ago
> it's always a struggle because work by its very nature is doing something you don't want to do because they're paying you... and doing something I don't want to do is very VERY hard. Almost impossible at times. I'm pretty successful by most people's (external) measures. But every single day is a miserable fight against my own brain. Some coping mechanisms are really harmful. > If you're a teenager or in your 20s, try and get some help now so you don't toil in futility for the next 20 years. Trust me. I second that.
tikhonj 7y ago
> ...work by its very nature is doing something you don't want to do because they're paying you... I emphasize with this, and work certainly has this aspect, but I think there's a better way to think about it: the nature of work is doing something valuable to somebody else for money. You don't get money for doing something you dislike and, crucially, people will still pay you to do useful things even if you enjoy them! The practical upside is that it is possible to find work you enjoy. There is nothing wrong with prioritizing this as much as you are able, and you shouldn't feel guilty once you do find work you enjoy. It's easy to internalize a Puritan "work as penance" point of view living in the US, but I think it's not a useful (or accurate) way to think about it. Of course, none of this changes your conclusion—if you feel this way, you should get some help. And, hell, even if you don't feel these things, chatting with a therapist will probably have a healthy effect on your life.

spawarotti 7y ago

TL;DR: "Most people don't have problems with procrastination" <CITATION NEEDED> I’ve read the article. I would caution against labeling yourself as having ADHD, IMO it is very dangerous. Every high-achieving person I know has major problem with procrastination. I was nodding while reading the article until the ADHD part. Does it mean we all have ADHD? Consider an alternative: our brains have to operate nonstop at near max capacity just to handle complexities of modern society with computers and Internet. They rebel and as a result we slap them with “defective, ADHD” labels. By analogy, if you would feed somebody ungodly amounts of cake day in, day out, it is no wonder if they develop diabetes. The problem is not that you are inherently defective; the problem is you (or rather – modern society) brought you to the brink and now you wonder why you are breaking down. Perhaps try to unplug for some months in the woods and see if the symptoms persist? If they do, I stand corrected.

InvisibleUp 7y ago
Hi, author here. Since I wrote this article, I got professionally diagnosed and treated. Turns out, yeah, I'm doing a lot better now. On most days I don't have these symptoms, I can in fact study for classes and work, while also doing the things I love. I'm getting back into doodling, I've schedules all the appointments I need to, I have a great friend group, etc. etc. It's not perfect, I relapse sometimes, but I'm doing a lot better. I'm not claiming everyone that procrastinates has ADHD. I'm claiming that it's a potential cause of chronic procrastination. Also, I really can't afford to live in the woods for a few months. I still need to pay for rent and food and healthcare and such. I'm glad that's an option for you but I can't do that.
- KozmoNau7 7y ago
  > "Also, I really can't afford to live in the woods for a few months. I still need to pay for rent and food and healthcare and such. I'm glad that's an option for you but I can't do that." That's exactly a big part of the problem; the way current society makes it impossible for most people to unwind, decouple and truly relax. I'm struggling with my attention span and motivation, so I've been considering getting out of the tech business and greatly reducing stress levels in my life. I've already gotten out of the mindset of always needing to have the latest new thing and the mindset of trying to keep up with the Joneses, but my IT job keeps stressing me out. It's just pointless corporate busywork and dysfunctional processes and workflows all the way down. I want something more straightforward, more beneficial to the world or even just to my local environment. It's never too late to make a change.

anon_d 7y ago

ADHD is your mind violently rebelling against the useless bullshit that you trying to force it to do.

makach 7y ago

I should really be working, but I am reading this article. Please send help.

FullKirby 7y ago

Thanks. I do recognize myself very much in what you described. I've been convinced that I have ADHD for quite a while already, but I always was against the idea of taking medication... I was still doing fine when I was younger, but I'm now somehow unable to focus to do homeworks, at all... I procrastinate, fall so much behind, get super stressed about it, and instead of being motivated like I used to (hello panic monster) I just "crash", panic, give up everything and fail classes. Not great for self-esteem and general happiness. I guess I'll reconsider seeking professional help and medication

zackmorris 7y ago

I just discovered yesterday that I suffer from task anxiety related to ADD/ADHD, after a lifetime of struggling against falling into patterns of depression. It's felt as almost a pain in my gut between my chest and belly whenever I go to start working on something I have to do. I just worked through this series of exercises and it really helped me identify what's actually going on, with some solutions: https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/01/29/taskmaster-getting-things-done/ https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/01/29/taskmaster-getting-t... https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/02/11/task-anxiety-awareness/ https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/02/11/task-anxiety-awarene... https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/02/14/virtue-not-own-reward/ https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/02/14/virtue-not-own-rewar... https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/02/16/doling-out-the-cookies/ https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/02/16/doling-out-the-cooki... https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/02/24/when-the-game-is-rigged/ https://addandsomuchmore.com/2012/02/24/when-the-game-is-rig... Some other keywords to look for are "impossible task" and "executive dysfunction", both maladies being seen predominantly in millennials. I just happened to get them 10 or 20 years ahead of time by starting computers when I was 12 as a Gen Xer.

rb808 7y ago

I could be ADHD, I hear a lot of stories about people diagnosed as adults. Surely everyone has trouble getting motivated for boring tasks. Surely everyone would benefit from stimulants though? I'm not sure how to tell the difference.

InvisibleUp 7y ago
I (and other people with ADHD) have trouble getting motivated not just for boring tasks, but any task. Even things we want to do. I doubt you've ever procrastinated playing your favorite video game, but I do. A lot. Stimulants also effect people with ADHD differently than those without. I won't pretend nto be an expert on the subject, but stimulants tend to make people with ADHD calmer, able to control their thoughts better, and sometimes even sleepier. People without ADHD tend to feel agitated and jittery and hyper.

Thorentis 7y ago

tl;dr (but do read rest of comment!): give up social media, porn, and TV (including Netflix) for a couple of months. Take up some form of exercise (lifting, running, even pilates or something), and re-evaluate your attention span. --- Not to be offensive to those diagnosed with ADHD or something related, but there is absolutely too much ADHD going around at the moment for it to be a coincidence. My wife is a teacher, and the number of kids "diagnosed" with ADHD is insane. What do they do with their time instead of homework or listening in class? Playing video games for hours on end, browsing social media, sending Snaps, creating Tik Tok videos, watching porn, watching Netflix, and so on ... See a pattern here? Sure, it is probably an old trope at this point, but the entertainment modern society has given us has drastically lowered our attention spans. Those of us in our mid to late 20s are on the border. We didn't grow up with social media, but we're young enough to have started using it fairly early (but not early enough - usually - for it to effect us /too/ badly, though those using it too much have suffered from it). Those a bit younger (high school age, freshman age) are absolutely suffering from it, and God knows how badly the primary and middle schoolers will suffer. In this article, the OP talks about what they do instead of study most of the time: lay in bed and browse Twitter and Reddit. Sorry but - and not to sound trite - but that there is a huge problem. It is not a symptom, it is a problem (not the problem, but it contributes) in and of itself. Cut it out. Unfortunately, I find myself sucked back into social media after giving it up for any length of time, whether by friends, family, a new venture that needs a Facebook page, whatever. But when I do give it up (and I mean all of it: Reddit, Twitter, Facebook, HN, the lot) I am the most productive I have ever been. I get things done. It's not a magic cure, and it must be combined with other stuff (exercise, reading, meditation), but honestly, our lazy modern lives are the cause of most "ADHD" and nothing else.

elfexec 7y ago

"A brand new day and A brand new HN post on Procrastination" I'm starting to see a pattern here. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22125883 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22125883

keyle 7y ago

1999 - the GTD method 2019 - everyone thinks they have ADHD on some level Constant: you're human and you are a fine human. Hormones and interests fluctuate throughout the weeks, months, years. Pursue what feels right. The human brain wasn't designed to pursue long term goals, it takes an extraordinary interest in something for it to be a life goal. Nothing is ever finished, it's just tabled for now. One day you'll be old and leave all that crap behind for the next generation. It's nature.

ncfausti 7y ago

As a 33 year old who was just diagnosed with ADHD, a few minutes into reading this I knew exactly where it was going. For me, it was when I watched Dr. Russell Barkley's talk[1] and halfway through, it brought me to tears. No one before then had described exactly the way I felt on a daily basis. Since going through a full day of neuropsychological testing and being diagnosed with ADHD-I and starting medication, I feel like the me I think I am, naturally curious, optimistic, and actually following through with the things that interest me. Planning and grad school assignments just click so effortlessly now, and my stress is way down, as I am completing things in a timely manner and not fighting myself at every step of the way. If any of this resonates with you, please talk with a psychiatrist to see if this is something you're unknowingly (and unnecessarily) struggling with. Also,if you're like me and like listening to audio books at 2 or 3x speed, check out Speechify, it allows you to listen to any kind of text including rough scans of books/PDFs. It's been incredibly helpful for required readings in classes. edit: wrong video url [1] https://youtu.be/_tpB-B8BXk0 https://youtu.be/_tpB-B8BXk0

asimjalis 7y ago

So how did you fix it? What was the solution?

InvisibleUp 7y ago
Went to my therapist. Explained my symptoms. Took a few tests, got a diagnosis, fiddled with medications and dosages for a while, did some more therapy, and I seem to be in a good spot now. Obviously, YMMV regarding the effectiveness of your treatment. I'm still sometimes up and down but the baseline is higher. Even if you decide not to take medication (it's not right for everyone and I won't pretend otherwise), do seek therapy. It's so incredibly helpful.

taurath 7y ago

By the point that the author had come upon what was "going on" I was literally afraid for myself since they had described EXACTLY what I've been doing and going through for so much of my life.

shreyshrey 7y ago

I struggle with this as well. Now i prioritize all my tasks in my brain. Over the years tried quite a few systems: tiddly wiki, gtd, zero inbox and onenote. Nothing worked for me.

speedplane 7y ago

I don't have a problem with procrastination, and I don't feel guilty about it. I think it's optimal. Generally, try to find out the last day something is due, figure out if that's a hard or soft deadline (if soft, get an extension), estimate how long it'll take to do the work, and then start the work exactly within that time limit. Doing it any sooner means that you're likely putting off even earlier deadlines. Procrastinating is not a problem, submitting work late or low quality is.

techsin101 7y ago

What helped me: - travelling and staying in a hotel for a month. Just job and hotel. All bookmarks, Todo lists, and everything else like that gone. Helped me forget it all and have a clear mind. - brushing teeth twice. I saw study that linked gum disease to depression. Aka unhealthy mind. I feel keeping mouth clean keeps inflammation down. I feel really positive once I had dental cleaning and decided I want to continue feeling that. - sleep apnea treatment with CPAP machine. It works I get tired 5 hours late now. before I'd be tired by 2pm, now I'm tired by 11 pm. I hate the mask I'm gonna get p10 that goes into nostrils I've nasal mask which sits under the noise and I feel it's affecting my teeth by putting gradual pressure. - accomplishing anything. I did an online course. Something different than my usual grind. And in world of evolving frameworks where you can never be good. It was refereshing to take the test and pass it many tests. Grow confidence. - don't mess your internal rythm. Just how blue light can alter your cycle so can eating very much. Infact there was a study by Harvard that to counter just lag and start waking up at certain time, fast almost a day then wake up at the time you wanna wake up daily and have big breakfast. It will instantly changes internal clock. So eating past 5-6pm is very bad. With Exception of milk.