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> The other side was saying that a culture where you can be fired for advocating for the wrong political position is literal McCarthyism. So were the at-will l

by sli 7y ago

> The other side was saying that a culture where you can be fired for advocating for the wrong political position is literal McCarthyism. So were the at-will laws that current exist discussed in extension to this or did that little detail just become the elephant in the room? Because political views are not a protected class, so their bad ending has already been here for a while. It strikes me as strange to treat that idea as a possible bad future when it's the actual present.

SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
In California, where Mozilla is headquartered, political views are a protected class. It's not (in principle) legal for an employer to fire you for your off-the-clock political views.
- sfink 7y ago
  Honestly, I think the most applicable courses to that situation are civics, logic, and law. Civics to make you realize how important it is to get the actual facts of the situation, logic to understand what they mean, and law for numerous applications of those two learnings. In this case, the most relevant part is whether Eich was fired. As far as can be determined externally, he was not. Depending on your leanings, you may decide to believe (perhaps based on evidence, perhaps not) that what probably happened was morally equivalent to being fired -- but again, logic and law say that doesn't matter. If the law says you can't do X when condition Y holds, but Y is kind of blurry and hard to determine precisely, then all that means exactly nothing if you didn't do X. Feel free to debate the legality or the ethics, but please don't get them mixed up.
  - SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
    On the contrary, respecting the intent of the law is a critical component of corporate ethics. If the people of California say that companies shouldn't control their employees' politics, but I don't like that rule so I find some loophole to do it anyway, I'm behaving unethically.
- collyw 7y ago
  Isn't Google based there? It didn't work out that way for James Damore.
  - bzbarsky 7y ago
    Without diving into the substance of Damore's views, note the "off-the-clock" caveat.

by sli 7y ago

SpicyLemonZest 7y ago

In California, where Mozilla is headquartered, political views are a protected class. It's not (in principle) legal for an employer to fire you for your off-the-clock political views.

sfink 7y ago
Honestly, I think the most applicable courses to that situation are civics, logic, and law. Civics to make you realize how important it is to get the actual facts of the situation, logic to understand what they mean, and law for numerous applications of those two learnings. In this case, the most relevant part is whether Eich was fired. As far as can be determined externally, he was not. Depending on your leanings, you may decide to believe (perhaps based on evidence, perhaps not) that what probably happened was morally equivalent to being fired -- but again, logic and law say that doesn't matter. If the law says you can't do X when condition Y holds, but Y is kind of blurry and hard to determine precisely, then all that means exactly nothing if you didn't do X. Feel free to debate the legality or the ethics, but please don't get them mixed up.
- SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
  On the contrary, respecting the intent of the law is a critical component of corporate ethics. If the people of California say that companies shouldn't control their employees' politics, but I don't like that rule so I find some loophole to do it anyway, I'm behaving unethically.
collyw 7y ago
Isn't Google based there? It didn't work out that way for James Damore.
- bzbarsky 7y ago
  Without diving into the substance of Damore's views, note the "off-the-clock" caveat.