6 ms·

If Microsoft really believes no-one needs IE, why is it still shipping it as part of Windows 10? Specifically, why is it still shipping IE as the only browser

If Microsoft really believes no-one needs IE, why is it still shipping it as part of Windows 10? Specifically, why is it still shipping IE as the only browser as part of Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC, including LTSC 2019? Yes, that is the version of Windows 10 with an "extended support end date of 9 January 2029"* * https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/13853/windows-lifecycle-fact-sheet https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/13853/windows-lifec...

catach 7y ago
Minimizing their support surface makes a ton of sense for a long-term release, and of course if you just choose one browser for Enterprise you're gonna choose the one people built their internal apps on for the last few decades. I expect it's not not that MS believes no one needs IE, it's that they know they're stuck with it and would really rather not be.
cosmodisk 7y ago
Well, as someone who installed various versios of windows over the last two decades,I can say that the only purpose of IE is a gateway to Chrome or Mozilla websites.Once they get downloaded it never gets opened again.
- IggleSniggle 7y ago
  ...and ActiveX reliant legacy apps...
gummydog 7y ago
Many Enterprises run critical legacy apps that depend on IE and it's ability to emulate lower versions. Many large orgs would require $100's of millions to rewrite all of them. No one will fund exercise that until the proverbial gun is point at them. 2029 sounds about right.
- reaperducer 7y ago
  Many large orgs would require $100's of millions to rewrite all of them. My org loaded Chrome on all of the machines for our internal web sites, but according to my logs, almost nobody uses it. They're just too used to clicking on the (e), I guess.
  - sjwright 7y ago
    Your org should replace the (e) with a shortcut to Chrome—but with the name and icon changed to match Internet Explorer. Much easier than retraining all the monkeys.
derefr 7y ago
Same reason they're still shipping Notepad, or the non-Powershell command interpreter: backwards compatibility with old enterprise software that hooks directly into those specific things (e.g. by targeting the mouse at specific pixels.) Basically, think of it like: LTSC ships without a browser. If you want a browser, go install one from the App Store. What it does ship with is an ActiveX-enabled-Intranet client.
- sjwright 7y ago
  What you describe is a valid reason for Windows to continue shipping with MSHTML.dll — not a valid reason to continue shipping the actual iexplore.exe GUI executable.
  - int_19h 7y ago
    You might be surprised just how much legacy software does something like spawn("iexplore.exe"). And then there are all the internal corporate web portals that are still IE-only, and probably will remain so for as long as IE is supported in any shape or form.
    - sjwright 7y ago
      Microsoft should certainly make it easy for corporate deployments to re-enable iexplore.exe — but it shouldn't be available by default on your typical Windows 10 install. (It's already available to uninstall and reinstall as an "optional feature".) Or at the very least, Explorer and the task bar should do everything in its power to hide the existence of Internet Explorer 11. It shouldn't be listed as a program anywhere by default and it shouldn't come up in search.
      - colejohnson66 7y ago
        So do something like what they did with .NET 2.0/3.0 where it’s a feature that has to be installed? But if it detects it’s needed, asks the user to install it right then? That’s actually a good idea. Why isn’t it like this?
wvenable 7y ago
> If Microsoft really believes no-one needs IE, why is it still shipping it as part of Windows 10? We have multi-million dollar software that relies on IE to run -- that's why. What good is an OS that can't run our software? Since Windows 10 we've setup an icon to just launch this application in IE and set the default browser for end-users to Chrome. Eventually that software will be replaced and we can end our use of IE but today is not that day.
- cr0sh 7y ago
  It's basically the same way with VB6 apps - so many of them out there, and MS can't get rid of the runtime DLL...
  - wvenable 7y ago
    The desktop component of this very same application requires the VB6 runtime. And the server side requires Korn shell (for Windows)!
- criddell 7y ago
  IE doesn't have to ship with Windows 10, does it? Is there any reason it couldn't be a separate install? I don't use it so I'd rather not have it on my machine.
  - cesarb 7y ago
    From what I recall, iexplore.exe is actually only a small wrapper around mshtml.dll. A lot of software depend on mshtml.dll and related DLLs. So you might think you're not using IE, but other non-browser software you use might be using IE under the covers. If Microsoft doesn't install IE by default, these programs would not work correctly (which is why Wine also implements these DLLs).
    - sjwright 7y ago
      Correct, iexplore.exe is itself a small wrapper. But that doesn't stop Microsoft from not shipping that small wrapper. Software that embeds mshtml.dll does not require the existence of the exe file. (Or alternatively, Microsoft could put some hack into Windows so that attempts to run iexplore.exe are passed to Edge unless the administrator has twiddled with some arbitrary registry key or group policy.)
Forge36 7y ago
Committed support until 2029 for VB6 and other .Net functionality still require it
Aeolun 7y ago
Because MS would sell exactly zero copies of windows to larger enterprises without it.
taneq 7y ago
How else are you meant to download Firefox or Chrome? :P

catach 7y ago

Minimizing their support surface makes a ton of sense for a long-term release, and of course if you just choose one browser for Enterprise you're gonna choose the one people built their internal apps on for the last few decades. I expect it's not not that MS believes no one needs IE, it's that they know they're stuck with it and would really rather not be.

cosmodisk 7y ago

Well, as someone who installed various versios of windows over the last two decades,I can say that the only purpose of IE is a gateway to Chrome or Mozilla websites.Once they get downloaded it never gets opened again.

IggleSniggle 7y ago
...and ActiveX reliant legacy apps...

gummydog 7y ago

Many Enterprises run critical legacy apps that depend on IE and it's ability to emulate lower versions. Many large orgs would require $100's of millions to rewrite all of them. No one will fund exercise that until the proverbial gun is point at them. 2029 sounds about right.

reaperducer 7y ago
Many large orgs would require $100's of millions to rewrite all of them. My org loaded Chrome on all of the machines for our internal web sites, but according to my logs, almost nobody uses it. They're just too used to clicking on the (e), I guess.
- sjwright 7y ago
  Your org should replace the (e) with a shortcut to Chrome—but with the name and icon changed to match Internet Explorer. Much easier than retraining all the monkeys.

derefr 7y ago

Same reason they're still shipping Notepad, or the non-Powershell command interpreter: backwards compatibility with old enterprise software that hooks directly into those specific things (e.g. by targeting the mouse at specific pixels.) Basically, think of it like: LTSC ships without a browser. If you want a browser, go install one from the App Store. What it does ship with is an ActiveX-enabled-Intranet client.

sjwright 7y ago
What you describe is a valid reason for Windows to continue shipping with MSHTML.dll — not a valid reason to continue shipping the actual iexplore.exe GUI executable.
- int_19h 7y ago
  You might be surprised just how much legacy software does something like spawn("iexplore.exe"). And then there are all the internal corporate web portals that are still IE-only, and probably will remain so for as long as IE is supported in any shape or form.
  - sjwright 7y ago
    Microsoft should certainly make it easy for corporate deployments to re-enable iexplore.exe — but it shouldn't be available by default on your typical Windows 10 install. (It's already available to uninstall and reinstall as an "optional feature".) Or at the very least, Explorer and the task bar should do everything in its power to hide the existence of Internet Explorer 11. It shouldn't be listed as a program anywhere by default and it shouldn't come up in search.
    - colejohnson66 7y ago
      So do something like what they did with .NET 2.0/3.0 where it’s a feature that has to be installed? But if it detects it’s needed, asks the user to install it right then? That’s actually a good idea. Why isn’t it like this?

wvenable 7y ago

> If Microsoft really believes no-one needs IE, why is it still shipping it as part of Windows 10? We have multi-million dollar software that relies on IE to run -- that's why. What good is an OS that can't run our software? Since Windows 10 we've setup an icon to just launch this application in IE and set the default browser for end-users to Chrome. Eventually that software will be replaced and we can end our use of IE but today is not that day.

cr0sh 7y ago
It's basically the same way with VB6 apps - so many of them out there, and MS can't get rid of the runtime DLL...
- wvenable 7y ago
  The desktop component of this very same application requires the VB6 runtime. And the server side requires Korn shell (for Windows)!
criddell 7y ago
IE doesn't have to ship with Windows 10, does it? Is there any reason it couldn't be a separate install? I don't use it so I'd rather not have it on my machine.
- cesarb 7y ago
  From what I recall, iexplore.exe is actually only a small wrapper around mshtml.dll. A lot of software depend on mshtml.dll and related DLLs. So you might think you're not using IE, but other non-browser software you use might be using IE under the covers. If Microsoft doesn't install IE by default, these programs would not work correctly (which is why Wine also implements these DLLs).
  - sjwright 7y ago
    Correct, iexplore.exe is itself a small wrapper. But that doesn't stop Microsoft from not shipping that small wrapper. Software that embeds mshtml.dll does not require the existence of the exe file. (Or alternatively, Microsoft could put some hack into Windows so that attempts to run iexplore.exe are passed to Edge unless the administrator has twiddled with some arbitrary registry key or group policy.)

Forge36 7y ago

Committed support until 2029 for VB6 and other .Net functionality still require it

Aeolun 7y ago

Because MS would sell exactly zero copies of windows to larger enterprises without it.

taneq 7y ago

How else are you meant to download Firefox or Chrome? :P