6 ms·

I have a soft spot for Delphi but this is odd. Delphi has seen its day. Any number of other languages can be taught for free... python is probably a more relev

I have a soft spot for Delphi but this is odd. Delphi has seen its day. Any number of other languages can be taught for free... python is probably a more relevant choice.

nurettin 7y ago
Delphi is still very relevant when building desktop applications.
- LeonidasXIV 7y ago
  Which is rather not where the world has been going towards in the last decade or so.
  - majidazimi 7y ago
    The number of small scale desktop applications (like restaurant accounting/billing or tax management) in Turkey or similar markets exceeds all forms of mobile/web apps combined. In my home town in Iran, C# desktop developer is the number one job offer for the last 10-15 years. The market is full of small businesses that need simple desktop apps to run the business.
    - kragen 7y ago
      Why would you want to build a restaurant accounting/billing app as a desktop app instead of a browser app?
      - astura 7y ago
        Because that's what the jobs that are hiring are for in the place the GP lives? I mean, I'd rather browse HN than do work all day, but nobody's going to pay me for that. I was an early web developer who transitioned into a modern one as time passed but I've moved back to desktop application development as of late because that's what was hiring in my area at the time I was looking for a job and I simply am not married to a particular technology.
        kragen 7y ago
        Obviously there are people involved in the process of building these desktop apps who aren't the ones who decide they'll be desktop apps. But somebody is making that decision. I'm asking what leads that person to make that choice. Is it beneficial to the restaurant as a business? How? I'm not asking about why people are willing to do what their boss asks for or their customers offer to pay for.
      - briandear 7y ago
        Because you can do more with a desktop app than a browser app. Not everything is or should be in the goddamned cloud.
        kragen 7y ago
        Sure you can, Brian, but those things aren't relevant to a simple line of business app like that. And I agree that it shouldn't be in the cloud; it should be on a Raspberry Pi in the back room of the restaurant, next to the Wi-Fi. Or, well, a Chinese clone, since you wouldn't want an Iranian restaurant to be dependent on imports from England.
      - ivanhoe 7y ago
        Just a few things that come to mind: - Because you still need to bill your customers even when the net is down or slow, - It works faster and more reliable on old, low on memory PC that you probably have. Also can work with old printers, barcode readers and pretty much anything out there, - Power of habit (a big deal), - Don't want to keep your accounting details on a remote server. This is probably of less importance for restaurants, but very important point for various trading companies, as it's not uncommon for someone to bribe accounting firms to leak info on competition.
      - dvfjsdhgfv 7y ago
        I'd ask the opposite question.
        kragen 7y ago
        Why would you want to build it as a browser app? Well, a guy named Paul Graham wrote an essay about that. Maybe you've heard of it?
- mapcars 7y ago
  Is it? Can it compete with c# or swift for desktop applications?
  - Koshkin 7y ago
    Yes. In the sense that neither C# nor, especially, Swift are suitable as teaching languages. (Nor is Python, BTW.)
    - briandear 7y ago
      Swift isn’t suitable? Then why is it being used as a teaching language in many US schools? https://www.apple.com/education/docs/everyone-can-code-curriculum-guide.pdf https://www.apple.com/education/docs/everyone-can-code-curri... A bit more relevant and marketable than Delphi. And with Swift playgrounds, students can even practice using an iPad.
    - mapcars 7y ago
      I remember studying with Delphi, don't remember any specific advantage for studying compared to let's say Java. On the other hand I remember many things seemed illogical.
  - nurettin 7y ago
    It depends on your use cases, are you just going to pop up a message box? Are you going to develop an ERP? c# and delphi both have devexpress, so apart from delphi's execution speed being faster (in my experience) they aren't really that different. Delphi does require you to manually cleanup memory at finally blocks, unlike c# which does garbage collection. Delphi has a design-time mode which is unique among the languages and is able to show live data from a database while developing master-detail forms and grids.
- Leace 7y ago
  Not only that but Delphi has tremendous educational potential due to fast feedback loops. There was a blog post once on HN where one of Delphi authors discussed how they designed IDE and the language to be friendly for newcomers. One could ask why not invest in https://www.lazarus-ide.org/ https://www.lazarus-ide.org/ instead of commercial Delphi though?
  - tluyben2 7y ago
    I try Lazarus every year; it is still instable. Did it improve over the past year?
    - nurettin 7y ago
      Nope, still unstable, you still need to chase and file small bugs, still no devexpress, either. But I have to admit they have done great work with the IDE during the past 5 years.
    - badsectoracula 7y ago
      In what OS and with what projects are you trying it? I'm using Lazarus since 2006 or so and the last time i remember it being unstable was back in 2008-2009. It has been a very long time since i even saw the IDE crashing, let alone getting a feeling that it is unstable. (note that i'm using Windows and mainly with my own projects and components and i only use the components that come with Lazarus)
  - peter_d_sherman 7y ago
    Leace: "Not only that but Delphi has tremendous educational potential due to fast feedback loops." Agreed completely! Not only that, but an argument could be made that the TIME that a given body of source code takes to compile -- can have a huge impact (positive or negative) on programmer productivity... Case in point: The Linux Kernel (written in C)... You make a change, even a small one, and you're probably going to wait for HOURS for it to compile... HOURS... Before you can run it, to know what your change accomplished (or didn't accomplish!)... HOURS... If the Linux Kernel was written in Delphi, compilation would take no more than a few MINUTES, even on a modest machine, and possibly a lot less, possibly seconds, depending on the dependencies of the code that was modified... That's the technological beauty of a single-pass compiler that caches precompiled source and its associated symbol tables (and only recompiles what's needed, only when it's needed)... Which change-compile-test-feedback loop do you think would make a programmer more productive? ? Hint: Even a non-programmer could easily know the difference... Yes, there are languages which are more popular, more attuned to web development, more Lambda-esque in nature, and these things are virtuous, to be sure -- but in terms of raw compilation/run/test/change/iterate speed (aka productivity), Delphi smokes all of them... For a programming job in the U.S., with many employers using differing technologies, it may be a loss, but for education, for the ability to learn how to think (as a programmer) and subsequently grow into other tools/technologies, it's a big WIN.
mkl 7y ago
Especially as Lazarus exists: https://www.lazarus-ide.org/ https://www.lazarus-ide.org/ Or maybe Lazarus isn't as good as its website makes out? I haven't used it, but used Delphi for a couple of years in the late 1990s.
aortega 7y ago
> python is probably a more relevant choice. Python doesn't have any standard graphical IDE or even GUI widgets. No modern language can create GUI applications with the ease of use of Delphi, except maybe .NET (which is based on Delphi).
- oefrha 7y ago
  tkinter wants to have a word. See also wxPython, PyQt, etc. Not saying they’re as easy as Delphi.
- mar77i 7y ago
  We do have webbrowsers for GUI widgets and beyond these days. By that metric, Javascript would definitely be a more relevant option.
  - aortega 7y ago
    Try to create a browser gui application using javascript, see how many resources it uses and how much time it takes you compared with Delphi, and just then, get out of my lawn.
  - Koshkin 7y ago
    Indeed it would - very easy to start with; and, today’s web browsers are extremely powerful VMs.
- trimboffle 7y ago
  Building desktop GUI apps is pretty niche these days compared with building browser apps.
  - dvfjsdhgfv 7y ago
    The key question is: should it be so? Or: wouldn't the world be a better place if we had some equilibrium between web and desktop apps?
    - 7y ago

I have a soft spot for Delphi but this is odd. Delphi has seen its day. Any number of other languages can be taught for free... python is probably a more relevant choice.

nurettin 7y ago

Delphi is still very relevant when building desktop applications.

LeonidasXIV 7y ago
Which is rather not where the world has been going towards in the last decade or so.
- majidazimi 7y ago
  The number of small scale desktop applications (like restaurant accounting/billing or tax management) in Turkey or similar markets exceeds all forms of mobile/web apps combined. In my home town in Iran, C# desktop developer is the number one job offer for the last 10-15 years. The market is full of small businesses that need simple desktop apps to run the business.
  - kragen 7y ago
    Why would you want to build a restaurant accounting/billing app as a desktop app instead of a browser app?
    - astura 7y ago
      Because that's what the jobs that are hiring are for in the place the GP lives? I mean, I'd rather browse HN than do work all day, but nobody's going to pay me for that. I was an early web developer who transitioned into a modern one as time passed but I've moved back to desktop application development as of late because that's what was hiring in my area at the time I was looking for a job and I simply am not married to a particular technology.
      - kragen 7y ago
        Obviously there are people involved in the process of building these desktop apps who aren't the ones who decide they'll be desktop apps. But somebody is making that decision. I'm asking what leads that person to make that choice. Is it beneficial to the restaurant as a business? How? I'm not asking about why people are willing to do what their boss asks for or their customers offer to pay for.
    - briandear 7y ago
      Because you can do more with a desktop app than a browser app. Not everything is or should be in the goddamned cloud.
      - kragen 7y ago
        Sure you can, Brian, but those things aren't relevant to a simple line of business app like that. And I agree that it shouldn't be in the cloud; it should be on a Raspberry Pi in the back room of the restaurant, next to the Wi-Fi. Or, well, a Chinese clone, since you wouldn't want an Iranian restaurant to be dependent on imports from England.
    - ivanhoe 7y ago
      Just a few things that come to mind: - Because you still need to bill your customers even when the net is down or slow, - It works faster and more reliable on old, low on memory PC that you probably have. Also can work with old printers, barcode readers and pretty much anything out there, - Power of habit (a big deal), - Don't want to keep your accounting details on a remote server. This is probably of less importance for restaurants, but very important point for various trading companies, as it's not uncommon for someone to bribe accounting firms to leak info on competition.
    - dvfjsdhgfv 7y ago
      I'd ask the opposite question.
      - kragen 7y ago
        Why would you want to build it as a browser app? Well, a guy named Paul Graham wrote an essay about that. Maybe you've heard of it?
mapcars 7y ago
Is it? Can it compete with c# or swift for desktop applications?
- Koshkin 7y ago
  Yes. In the sense that neither C# nor, especially, Swift are suitable as teaching languages. (Nor is Python, BTW.)
  - briandear 7y ago
    Swift isn’t suitable? Then why is it being used as a teaching language in many US schools? https://www.apple.com/education/docs/everyone-can-code-curriculum-guide.pdf https://www.apple.com/education/docs/everyone-can-code-curri... A bit more relevant and marketable than Delphi. And with Swift playgrounds, students can even practice using an iPad.
  - mapcars 7y ago
    I remember studying with Delphi, don't remember any specific advantage for studying compared to let's say Java. On the other hand I remember many things seemed illogical.
- nurettin 7y ago
  It depends on your use cases, are you just going to pop up a message box? Are you going to develop an ERP? c# and delphi both have devexpress, so apart from delphi's execution speed being faster (in my experience) they aren't really that different. Delphi does require you to manually cleanup memory at finally blocks, unlike c# which does garbage collection. Delphi has a design-time mode which is unique among the languages and is able to show live data from a database while developing master-detail forms and grids.
Leace 7y ago
Not only that but Delphi has tremendous educational potential due to fast feedback loops. There was a blog post once on HN where one of Delphi authors discussed how they designed IDE and the language to be friendly for newcomers. One could ask why not invest in https://www.lazarus-ide.org/ https://www.lazarus-ide.org/ instead of commercial Delphi though?
- tluyben2 7y ago
  I try Lazarus every year; it is still instable. Did it improve over the past year?
  - nurettin 7y ago
    Nope, still unstable, you still need to chase and file small bugs, still no devexpress, either. But I have to admit they have done great work with the IDE during the past 5 years.
  - badsectoracula 7y ago
    In what OS and with what projects are you trying it? I'm using Lazarus since 2006 or so and the last time i remember it being unstable was back in 2008-2009. It has been a very long time since i even saw the IDE crashing, let alone getting a feeling that it is unstable. (note that i'm using Windows and mainly with my own projects and components and i only use the components that come with Lazarus)
- peter_d_sherman 7y ago
  Leace: "Not only that but Delphi has tremendous educational potential due to fast feedback loops." Agreed completely! Not only that, but an argument could be made that the TIME that a given body of source code takes to compile -- can have a huge impact (positive or negative) on programmer productivity... Case in point: The Linux Kernel (written in C)... You make a change, even a small one, and you're probably going to wait for HOURS for it to compile... HOURS... Before you can run it, to know what your change accomplished (or didn't accomplish!)... HOURS... If the Linux Kernel was written in Delphi, compilation would take no more than a few MINUTES, even on a modest machine, and possibly a lot less, possibly seconds, depending on the dependencies of the code that was modified... That's the technological beauty of a single-pass compiler that caches precompiled source and its associated symbol tables (and only recompiles what's needed, only when it's needed)... Which change-compile-test-feedback loop do you think would make a programmer more productive? ? Hint: Even a non-programmer could easily know the difference... Yes, there are languages which are more popular, more attuned to web development, more Lambda-esque in nature, and these things are virtuous, to be sure -- but in terms of raw compilation/run/test/change/iterate speed (aka productivity), Delphi smokes all of them... For a programming job in the U.S., with many employers using differing technologies, it may be a loss, but for education, for the ability to learn how to think (as a programmer) and subsequently grow into other tools/technologies, it's a big WIN.

mkl 7y ago

Especially as Lazarus exists: https://www.lazarus-ide.org/ https://www.lazarus-ide.org/ Or maybe Lazarus isn't as good as its website makes out? I haven't used it, but used Delphi for a couple of years in the late 1990s.

aortega 7y ago

> python is probably a more relevant choice. Python doesn't have any standard graphical IDE or even GUI widgets. No modern language can create GUI applications with the ease of use of Delphi, except maybe .NET (which is based on Delphi).

oefrha 7y ago
tkinter wants to have a word. See also wxPython, PyQt, etc. Not saying they’re as easy as Delphi.
mar77i 7y ago
We do have webbrowsers for GUI widgets and beyond these days. By that metric, Javascript would definitely be a more relevant option.
- aortega 7y ago
  Try to create a browser gui application using javascript, see how many resources it uses and how much time it takes you compared with Delphi, and just then, get out of my lawn.
- Koshkin 7y ago
  Indeed it would - very easy to start with; and, today’s web browsers are extremely powerful VMs.
trimboffle 7y ago
Building desktop GUI apps is pretty niche these days compared with building browser apps.
- dvfjsdhgfv 7y ago
  The key question is: should it be so? Or: wouldn't the world be a better place if we had some equilibrium between web and desktop apps?
  - 7y ago