12 ms·

It sounds like you're describing a very sophisticated bus route that every city in the world already has.

by jarjoura 7y ago

Dig1t 7y ago
Except taking the bus sucks. It takes forever and I have to get harassed by crazies when I'm just trying to get home.
- semi-extrinsic 7y ago
  It's the perfect SV solution: you have problems caused by underfunded public transport, large income inequality and homelessness? Let's not fix those underlying issues, we can just spend a ton of VC money on artifical intelligence to work around the consequences instead!
  - sriram_sun 7y ago
    I can see my city getting these to help seniors get out and about. Hmm wheelchair support might suck.
  - scarejunba 7y ago
    It actually is. When entrenched power structures prevent economically efficient outcomes, you bypass the power structures instead of reforming them. You reform by killing the king instead of helping him be kinder. And this is how progress has always looked. Life will be better for this. The market is a close analog for lightning. It's finding the fastest path. And let me tell you, the Bay Area is flush with money. Funding is not the problem.
  - closeparen 7y ago
    Within the existing civil rights framework, there is no “fixing” crazies on the bus. The state cannot lock people up or force them to take their meds just because they make you uncomfortable. Nor can it deny them public services. They have the same rights to the commons, their freedom, and their medical decision-making as you do. Smelling bad, shouting nonsense, and talking to strangers in public are not crimes. Which means if you want to be comfortable, you’re going to have to minimize time spent in the commons.
    - Dylan16807 7y ago
      > Smelling bad, shouting nonsense, and talking to strangers in public are not crimes. But you could certainly make rules about doing the first two on a bus.
      - michaelt 7y ago
        I don't know how it works in your country, but in mine enforcement of rules on busses is pretty patchy. After all, do you deny boarding to people who look like they might break the rules? Ask them nicely to disembark if they start? Have the driver manhandle them off? Stop the bus and call the cops? Rely on scowls and tutting from other passengers? With that said, I spent a few years riding busses in university, and didn't encounter problems from other passengers. Punctuality, service frequency, crowding and journey times were much bigger problems for me.
        Dylan16807 7y ago
        This is about civil rights, not the practicality of enforcement.
      - rayiner 7y ago
        Rules? We have ceased to be a society of rules. (And soon we will stop being a society of rule followers, which will signal the end of our civilization, but that’s a different rant.) Here in DC, we won’t even enforce the “rule” that you have to pay the fare. Good luck enforcing anything else.
        tptacek 7y ago
        Haven't people been avoiding fares since the invention of fares?
        rayiner 7y ago
        Most people don’t avoid fares. I’m of the view that the point of criminal law isn’t deterrence as such, but rather norm setting. We punish people for fare evasion so people know it’s a bad thing. The norm keeps most people from evading the date. But when you stop punishing people for it, the norm is diminished.
- JumpCrisscross 7y ago
  > taking the bus sucks Yes. Buses are cheap, but slow and uncomfortable. Buses are big and unmaneuverable. That makes them slow over long distances. In low densities, the size means lots of inefficient stops. In high density, the manoeuvrability means subpar navigation and traffic avoidance. Buses are also uncomfortable. If you raise ticket prices to buy a better ride, the quantity demanded drops and one ends up with vans. Vans are expensive because they need drivers. Driverless vans are superior to private cars and buses for their market. (Nobody is close to providing this.)
  - L_Rahman 7y ago
    The subpar navigation and traffic avoidance are a function of road design in high density environments. We know how to make that go away: create separated bus only right of way with traffic light synchronization.
- fxtentacle 7y ago
  Now imagine you sitting in the same Cruise Origin with 2 crazies and one drunk. Where's the improvement?
  - jiofih 7y ago
    You can skip that and take another one without waiting for 20m?
  - ansible 7y ago
    Sounds like a job for a passenger rating system as well. With all the ups and downs of that.
  - Dig1t 7y ago
    Well from the sound of it, its an Uber-like service? I'd hope they have an option to book a private one.
  - Sean1708 7y ago
    To be honest sitting in a car with 2 "crazies" and a drunk doesn't sound any worse than sitting on a bus with 50 "crazies" and 25 drunks would be for the other 25 people.
- molmalo 7y ago
  Sorry for the off-topic, but this is something that blew my mind while traveling around the USA. I could count with my fingers the amount of crazy people I saw in my life while in public transport or on the streets in general. The same while traveling around Europe. But in the USA, it was incredible to see the amount of crazy people going around, talking alone, yelling out of nowhere, or "having episodes" (e.g. one guy rubbing a plastic fork intensely on the top of his head for like 15 mins while staring into space). I wonder what would be the reason for that? (Maybe the lack of a public/universal health service?)
  - jtolmar 7y ago
    The US lack of mental healthcare institutions. Like an impressive number of problems in this country, it traces back to Reagan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_Health_Systems_Act_of_1980 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_Health_Systems_Act_of_1...
    - Gatsky 7y ago
      No this isn’t it. Deinstitutionalisation is a worldwide trend. It’s the lack of mental healthcare itself that is the problem. There isn’t a good reason why it should be this way in a wealthy country. It amounts to saying ‘Let the people that need the most help wither and die.’
    - usrusr 7y ago
      Here in Germany I happen to share a few tram stops with a group of clearly challenged people who apparently have a commute overlapping with mine. They never bother anyone. Because someone is taking care of them (I can only assume, the group travels unaccompanied, my guess is that it's a bunch of co-workers from some form of sheltered workshop), giving them enough support to live a life they can manage that is neither behind bars nor being left to their own insufficient devices. Thrown out into "full difficulty mode" life I'm sure many of them would end up as annoying outcasts harassing random strangers in a futile attempt to get a trace of human interaction. Would I like to ride a tram with only smart and beautiful people? Sure I would, but I could not enjoy it knowing about the implications. Being exposed to a sample of society is actually one of the things I like most about public transport. But it's only a positive if the sample is at least somewhat representative and not a self-selected showcase of the down and out. Classic chicken/egg. Where I live, subway and tram are fine whereas urban buses sharing the same general are and ticket are borderline depressing (suburban buses are somewhat ok, rural buses are completely devoid of driving age population).
prawn 7y ago
The buses in my city are not close-to-on-demand, stop frequently, don't adjust their route based on requests and cost over $5/trip (without a multi-trip card). I imagine something like this will arrive more quickly, not stop 15 times on the way, and get people closer to their home/work.
- asjw 7y ago
  I come from a city where public transport is unreliable, so everyone use private cars. Which are reliable until you hit traffic jam (always) or have to park them (usually the time to find a spot is a large percentage of the entire trip) The city is a pretty big one: Rome, Italy. The only real solution is ban private cars. I don't like it, but it's unfortunately like cancer: kill it before it kills you.
  - prawn 7y ago
    In many places, I think it will happen gradually by removing or charging more for street parking. Then driving yourself becomes an expensive hassle and automated ridesharing looks more and more attractive as the cost drops and convenience improves.
PeterisP 7y ago
My city has a bus route from the airport to a particular central place in the city. It does not have a bus route going straight to every district of the city, much less to my home. It may share 90% of the trip with that bus route, but the remaining 10% are very important.

It sounds like you're describing a very sophisticated bus route that every city in the world already has.

Dig1t 7y ago

Except taking the bus sucks. It takes forever and I have to get harassed by crazies when I'm just trying to get home.

semi-extrinsic 7y ago
It's the perfect SV solution: you have problems caused by underfunded public transport, large income inequality and homelessness? Let's not fix those underlying issues, we can just spend a ton of VC money on artifical intelligence to work around the consequences instead!
- sriram_sun 7y ago
  I can see my city getting these to help seniors get out and about. Hmm wheelchair support might suck.
- scarejunba 7y ago
  It actually is. When entrenched power structures prevent economically efficient outcomes, you bypass the power structures instead of reforming them. You reform by killing the king instead of helping him be kinder. And this is how progress has always looked. Life will be better for this. The market is a close analog for lightning. It's finding the fastest path. And let me tell you, the Bay Area is flush with money. Funding is not the problem.
- closeparen 7y ago
  Within the existing civil rights framework, there is no “fixing” crazies on the bus. The state cannot lock people up or force them to take their meds just because they make you uncomfortable. Nor can it deny them public services. They have the same rights to the commons, their freedom, and their medical decision-making as you do. Smelling bad, shouting nonsense, and talking to strangers in public are not crimes. Which means if you want to be comfortable, you’re going to have to minimize time spent in the commons.
  - Dylan16807 7y ago
    > Smelling bad, shouting nonsense, and talking to strangers in public are not crimes. But you could certainly make rules about doing the first two on a bus.
    - michaelt 7y ago
      I don't know how it works in your country, but in mine enforcement of rules on busses is pretty patchy. After all, do you deny boarding to people who look like they might break the rules? Ask them nicely to disembark if they start? Have the driver manhandle them off? Stop the bus and call the cops? Rely on scowls and tutting from other passengers? With that said, I spent a few years riding busses in university, and didn't encounter problems from other passengers. Punctuality, service frequency, crowding and journey times were much bigger problems for me.
      - Dylan16807 7y ago
        This is about civil rights, not the practicality of enforcement.
    - rayiner 7y ago
      Rules? We have ceased to be a society of rules. (And soon we will stop being a society of rule followers, which will signal the end of our civilization, but that’s a different rant.) Here in DC, we won’t even enforce the “rule” that you have to pay the fare. Good luck enforcing anything else.
      - tptacek 7y ago
        Haven't people been avoiding fares since the invention of fares?
        rayiner 7y ago
        Most people don’t avoid fares. I’m of the view that the point of criminal law isn’t deterrence as such, but rather norm setting. We punish people for fare evasion so people know it’s a bad thing. The norm keeps most people from evading the date. But when you stop punishing people for it, the norm is diminished.
JumpCrisscross 7y ago
> taking the bus sucks Yes. Buses are cheap, but slow and uncomfortable. Buses are big and unmaneuverable. That makes them slow over long distances. In low densities, the size means lots of inefficient stops. In high density, the manoeuvrability means subpar navigation and traffic avoidance. Buses are also uncomfortable. If you raise ticket prices to buy a better ride, the quantity demanded drops and one ends up with vans. Vans are expensive because they need drivers. Driverless vans are superior to private cars and buses for their market. (Nobody is close to providing this.)
- L_Rahman 7y ago
  The subpar navigation and traffic avoidance are a function of road design in high density environments. We know how to make that go away: create separated bus only right of way with traffic light synchronization.
fxtentacle 7y ago
Now imagine you sitting in the same Cruise Origin with 2 crazies and one drunk. Where's the improvement?
- jiofih 7y ago
  You can skip that and take another one without waiting for 20m?
- ansible 7y ago
  Sounds like a job for a passenger rating system as well. With all the ups and downs of that.
- Dig1t 7y ago
  Well from the sound of it, its an Uber-like service? I'd hope they have an option to book a private one.
- Sean1708 7y ago
  To be honest sitting in a car with 2 "crazies" and a drunk doesn't sound any worse than sitting on a bus with 50 "crazies" and 25 drunks would be for the other 25 people.
molmalo 7y ago
Sorry for the off-topic, but this is something that blew my mind while traveling around the USA. I could count with my fingers the amount of crazy people I saw in my life while in public transport or on the streets in general. The same while traveling around Europe. But in the USA, it was incredible to see the amount of crazy people going around, talking alone, yelling out of nowhere, or "having episodes" (e.g. one guy rubbing a plastic fork intensely on the top of his head for like 15 mins while staring into space). I wonder what would be the reason for that? (Maybe the lack of a public/universal health service?)
- jtolmar 7y ago
  The US lack of mental healthcare institutions. Like an impressive number of problems in this country, it traces back to Reagan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_Health_Systems_Act_of_1980 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_Health_Systems_Act_of_1...
  - Gatsky 7y ago
    No this isn’t it. Deinstitutionalisation is a worldwide trend. It’s the lack of mental healthcare itself that is the problem. There isn’t a good reason why it should be this way in a wealthy country. It amounts to saying ‘Let the people that need the most help wither and die.’
  - usrusr 7y ago
    Here in Germany I happen to share a few tram stops with a group of clearly challenged people who apparently have a commute overlapping with mine. They never bother anyone. Because someone is taking care of them (I can only assume, the group travels unaccompanied, my guess is that it's a bunch of co-workers from some form of sheltered workshop), giving them enough support to live a life they can manage that is neither behind bars nor being left to their own insufficient devices. Thrown out into "full difficulty mode" life I'm sure many of them would end up as annoying outcasts harassing random strangers in a futile attempt to get a trace of human interaction. Would I like to ride a tram with only smart and beautiful people? Sure I would, but I could not enjoy it knowing about the implications. Being exposed to a sample of society is actually one of the things I like most about public transport. But it's only a positive if the sample is at least somewhat representative and not a self-selected showcase of the down and out. Classic chicken/egg. Where I live, subway and tram are fine whereas urban buses sharing the same general are and ticket are borderline depressing (suburban buses are somewhat ok, rural buses are completely devoid of driving age population).

prawn 7y ago

The buses in my city are not close-to-on-demand, stop frequently, don't adjust their route based on requests and cost over $5/trip (without a multi-trip card). I imagine something like this will arrive more quickly, not stop 15 times on the way, and get people closer to their home/work.

asjw 7y ago
I come from a city where public transport is unreliable, so everyone use private cars. Which are reliable until you hit traffic jam (always) or have to park them (usually the time to find a spot is a large percentage of the entire trip) The city is a pretty big one: Rome, Italy. The only real solution is ban private cars. I don't like it, but it's unfortunately like cancer: kill it before it kills you.
- prawn 7y ago
  In many places, I think it will happen gradually by removing or charging more for street parking. Then driving yourself becomes an expensive hassle and automated ridesharing looks more and more attractive as the cost drops and convenience improves.

PeterisP 7y ago

My city has a bus route from the airport to a particular central place in the city. It does not have a bus route going straight to every district of the city, much less to my home. It may share 90% of the trip with that bus route, but the remaining 10% are very important.