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What you say makes sense. Still, if that’s the case, then when they decided not to go down the user-is-in-full-and-absolute-control path for encryption of iClou
by natch 7y ago
What you say makes sense. Still, if that’s the case, then when they decided not to go down the user-is-in-full-and-absolute-control path for encryption of iCloud backups, they should have publicized it loudly and with extreme clarity on what exactly was happening and where the lines were. So that users could make informed choices.
- Despegar 7y agoThey have never hidden how iCloud backups or anything else related to iOS security works. This support document spells out clearly what data is end-to-end encrypted [1]. No one was actually misled into thinking all iCloud data was E2E. For one, most of Apple's customers don't know or care about the technical architecture of their products and services. The people who do would have known better when you can go to icloud.com and access your photos and files from a web browser. [1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303
- Proziam 7y agoTypical users who may care about privacy were definitely misled by Apple's public pro-security and pro-privacy stances. I have family who fall into that category. The difference between E2E and 'yup we're encrypted!' isn't understood by laypeople. Let's not do ourselves or the average folks out there a disservice by letting Apple off the hook for bad communication and the intentional misleading of users.
- TheSpiceIsLife 7y agoThe page you've linked to has a table filled entirely with the word Yes, apart from iCloud.com which has a note and Mail which has a note. The first entry in the table is: Backup Yes Yes At a glance this looks, to me, as though iCloud backups are encrypted. What am I missing?
- Despegar 7y agoIf you scroll down another line you'll see another section titled: End-to-end encrypted data
- catalogia 7y agoTechnically telling the truth below the fold or in the fine print, while misleading consumers who only give the literature a glance. This is very typical behavior from a corporation, it shouldn't surprise us. Except that Apple's marketing team has managed to dupe a huge number of consumers into believing Apple 'thinks different.'
- justinclift 7y agoWhen the very first line of that table tells people that iCloud Backups are encrypted on the server... to then have the last few lines add effectively "Oh, but not end to end!" is just taking the piss.
- Despegar 7y agoYou're absolutely right. They could have definitely misled anyone that didn't read the entire support article, including the first paragraph under Data Security: >iCloud secures your information by encrypting it when it's in transit, storing it in iCloud in an encrypted format, and using secure tokens for authentication. For certain sensitive information, Apple uses end-to-end encryption. This means that only you can access your information, and only on devices where you’re signed into iCloud. No one else, not even Apple, can access end-to-end encrypted information.
- hu3 7y agoThat link says: Backup Encryption In Transit: Yes Backup Encryption On Server: Yes
- codedokode 7y agoSo it seems like the data are encrypted both in transit and on the server and it means that nobody is able to get unencrypted data even if they can intercept the traffic or access the server.
- mirimir 7y agoNobody except Apple, that is. That's no different from me offering a remote backup service on a LUKS encrypted box, using sftp or whatever, and then making those claims.
- hu3 7y agoThe article says otherwise.
- commoner 7y agoNo, the data is still not end-to-end encrypted, which means that Apple can decrypt the data on the server.
- matwood 7y agoIt has been known and talked about on HN for a long time that only certain things are E2E encrypted on iCloud. And, if full privacy was the goal, then either the user can only do local backups or no backups at all.
- Proziam 7y agoHN is among the most technologically-literate demographics in the world. Using HN as a control group to say that it's been 'known and talked about' is a bit disingenuous when we're the proverbial 1% who are in the know. Meanwhile, the other 99% are left trusting Apple's advertising.
- artificial 7y agoJust to understand this better is it that Apple is misleading or the public is uninformed? Trusting 3rd parties should default to “others have access including law enforcement” behavior.
- catalogia 7y ago> "Just to understand this better is it that Apple is misleading or the public is uninformed?" That's a false dichotomy. I'd say both are true. Both are usually true.
- netheril96 7y agoYet many HNers did not know about this before today. Even more evidence how misleading Apple has been on this.