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Economics in a nutshell: "There must be a single number that explains all of this!" It can't possibly be that Germany actually built its exports based on qualit

by nothis 7y ago

Economics in a nutshell: "There must be a single number that explains all of this!" It can't possibly be that Germany actually built its exports based on quality. That can't be replicated by tweaking some tax laws.

arethuza 7y ago
A few years back I worked for a large engineering services company (that nobody has ever heard of) and one of the senior managers from Germany described the quality of Mercedes-Benz cars as a "national disgrace" - he was genuinely upset about it.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
  The original owners keep them for 5 years max. Nothing has to last longer than that.
  - helij 7y ago
    Exactly. I change cars every three years now. The last one I changed after 2 years. I really don't care how reliable they are after 5 years as long as they are comfortable, frugal and safe during my ownership. Technology today just moves too fast to see myself driving 50+ miles a day in a 5+ years old car.
    - CapricornNoble 7y ago
      I'm genuinely curious what sort of technical innovations of recent cars you feel make something like a 2012 Lexus IS-F an unreasonable automotive experience by comparison, let alone a used Mercedes S65 AMG.
      - helij 7y ago
        Cameras all around. Safety systems are much improved since 2012 as well. Neither of these two mentioned has blind spot monitor for example.
        CapricornNoble 7y ago
        Interesting, I call that stuff "nannies for people with poor situational awareness". I suppose they have utility as the size of the vehicle you drive increases (would have loved it when I drove a fuel truck in the Army[1]). In a mid-size sedan or smaller, with an attentive driver, they seem like a waste of resources to me. Side effects of living in a bubble of car modders and street racers, who almost never buy anything brand-new anyway. I wonder how blind spot accidents in the US are affected by driver education? I'd love to see a comparison of data between the US, Germany, and Japan on incident rates of such accidents... [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_Expanded_Mobility_Tactical_Truck#/media/File:HEMTT_M978A2_with_HEMAT_trailer.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_Expanded_Mobility_Tactic...
        helij 7y ago
        Well these new systems actually saved me at least once (probably more but it didn't feel as dangerous). It happened when van drove in front of me when I was in a runabout. Automatic brakes reacted immediately and halted the car. Interesting that you call this stuff like you do. All these systems actually prevented many accidents around the world as cars are getting more and more safe all around. As for blind spot system. I use it just as another data-point when driving around M25(London). Of course I look at the mirrors and those are perfectly aligned so I have no blind spots but when I look at the mirrors and see no blind spot warning I am sure all is good and I move to the other lane.
  - magduf 7y ago
    Why is this downmodded? It's true, at least in America: the people who buy these cars new don't care if they still work 10 years later, because they don't keep them that long. The people who buy cars intending to keep them a long time don't buy expensive luxury cars here.
    - hcnews 7y ago
      Couple of reasons I can think of: 1. Most people want cars to run 10+ years, even in America (I live in California). Capital, environmental implications, not many new features etc. are valid reasons. 2. Higher quality cars are better to ride in 5 years than lesser quality cars. I would rather drive first 5 years of a car than the only 5 years of a car.
      - kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
        None of that applies to Merc buyers. These cars use an unusually high amount of plastic parts in critical areas that reliable vehicles don't ever attempt. Modern Mercedes is not the same as it was 30 years ago. Quality has been sacrificed on the altar of profit.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
- paganel 7y ago
  For what it’s worth early 2000s Mercedes Benz models are not known for their reliability, and some of them were pretty prone to rust. Of course, Mercedes models built until the early-to-mid 1990s are a whole different thing.
- jotm 7y ago
  Well, yeah, it's widely accepted that the W124 was the last "quality" (i.e. long-lasting) car made by Mercedes. They switched to a more planned obsolescence production in the early 90's.
dzonga 7y ago
Japan produces quality products. That even the revered companies here in the states e.g Apple via Jobs had to emulate them ? so yeah it ain't all about quality. Currency games have a strong role to play.
- raxxorrax 7y ago
  Japan is very successful if you look at their trade statistics and their products are often held in high esteem in regards to quality. But the currency obviously helps Germany. Still, there are a lot of niche products where companies with around 300 employees can call themselves global market leaders. It is not just cars, although it is the largest industry and there are quite a few manufacturers.
iagovar 7y ago
Many other euro companies export based on quality. I know this at least in Spain. In Spain many companies just export with generic names, as it's believed that people associates spanish products with low quality, and this has been apparently confirmed with by Real Instituto Elcano surveys. I did a reddit thread about this: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskEurope/comments/ejgwy7/apparently_being_marketed_as_spanish_brand_is/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskEurope/comments/ejgwy7/apparentl... This also happened with specialized and niche products, where you'd expect your customers, specially b2b, to be more rational in their decisions.
- zwieback 7y ago
  I changed my mind about that after working with our Barcelona divison - top notch engineering all around.
  - magduf 7y ago
    Sounds like Catalonia would be better off separating from Spain since then they could establish their own reputation instead of being dragged down by the rest of the country's poor reputation.
    - pvaldes 7y ago
      And more cliché... Catalonian reputation is heavily, and I'm saying heavily, based in the fact that 1) It played with different (more favourable) rules than other areas, and 2) it attracted talent and workers from all coins of Spain in the past. People from Madrid, Sevilla, Leon, Vigo and Granada is often what would be seen by strangers as "Catalonian talent", for no reason. And I would add that the so called, "Catalonian reputation" has entered in a sinking phase in the last years. Madrid GDP is increasing faster (Madrid alone surpassed the GDP of the entire four Catalonian provinces in 2018 and this was not common in the past) and thousands of companies are slowly losing interest in the area tired from its permanent state of conflict.
BurningFrog 7y ago
> Economics in a nutshell: "There must be a single number that explains all of this!" My experience of Economists is that they love a lot of numbers!
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

by nothis 7y ago

arethuza 7y ago

A few years back I worked for a large engineering services company (that nobody has ever heard of) and one of the senior managers from Germany described the quality of Mercedes-Benz cars as a "national disgrace" - he was genuinely upset about it.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
The original owners keep them for 5 years max. Nothing has to last longer than that.
- helij 7y ago
  Exactly. I change cars every three years now. The last one I changed after 2 years. I really don't care how reliable they are after 5 years as long as they are comfortable, frugal and safe during my ownership. Technology today just moves too fast to see myself driving 50+ miles a day in a 5+ years old car.
  - CapricornNoble 7y ago
    I'm genuinely curious what sort of technical innovations of recent cars you feel make something like a 2012 Lexus IS-F an unreasonable automotive experience by comparison, let alone a used Mercedes S65 AMG.
    - helij 7y ago
      Cameras all around. Safety systems are much improved since 2012 as well. Neither of these two mentioned has blind spot monitor for example.
      - CapricornNoble 7y ago
        Interesting, I call that stuff "nannies for people with poor situational awareness". I suppose they have utility as the size of the vehicle you drive increases (would have loved it when I drove a fuel truck in the Army[1]). In a mid-size sedan or smaller, with an attentive driver, they seem like a waste of resources to me. Side effects of living in a bubble of car modders and street racers, who almost never buy anything brand-new anyway. I wonder how blind spot accidents in the US are affected by driver education? I'd love to see a comparison of data between the US, Germany, and Japan on incident rates of such accidents... [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_Expanded_Mobility_Tactical_Truck#/media/File:HEMTT_M978A2_with_HEMAT_trailer.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_Expanded_Mobility_Tactic...
        helij 7y ago
        Well these new systems actually saved me at least once (probably more but it didn't feel as dangerous). It happened when van drove in front of me when I was in a runabout. Automatic brakes reacted immediately and halted the car. Interesting that you call this stuff like you do. All these systems actually prevented many accidents around the world as cars are getting more and more safe all around. As for blind spot system. I use it just as another data-point when driving around M25(London). Of course I look at the mirrors and those are perfectly aligned so I have no blind spots but when I look at the mirrors and see no blind spot warning I am sure all is good and I move to the other lane.
- magduf 7y ago
  Why is this downmodded? It's true, at least in America: the people who buy these cars new don't care if they still work 10 years later, because they don't keep them that long. The people who buy cars intending to keep them a long time don't buy expensive luxury cars here.
  - hcnews 7y ago
    Couple of reasons I can think of: 1. Most people want cars to run 10+ years, even in America (I live in California). Capital, environmental implications, not many new features etc. are valid reasons. 2. Higher quality cars are better to ride in 5 years than lesser quality cars. I would rather drive first 5 years of a car than the only 5 years of a car.
    - kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
      None of that applies to Merc buyers. These cars use an unusually high amount of plastic parts in critical areas that reliable vehicles don't ever attempt. Modern Mercedes is not the same as it was 30 years ago. Quality has been sacrificed on the altar of profit.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
paganel 7y ago
For what it’s worth early 2000s Mercedes Benz models are not known for their reliability, and some of them were pretty prone to rust. Of course, Mercedes models built until the early-to-mid 1990s are a whole different thing.
jotm 7y ago
Well, yeah, it's widely accepted that the W124 was the last "quality" (i.e. long-lasting) car made by Mercedes. They switched to a more planned obsolescence production in the early 90's.

dzonga 7y ago

Japan produces quality products. That even the revered companies here in the states e.g Apple via Jobs had to emulate them ? so yeah it ain't all about quality. Currency games have a strong role to play.

raxxorrax 7y ago
Japan is very successful if you look at their trade statistics and their products are often held in high esteem in regards to quality. But the currency obviously helps Germany. Still, there are a lot of niche products where companies with around 300 employees can call themselves global market leaders. It is not just cars, although it is the largest industry and there are quite a few manufacturers.

iagovar 7y ago

Many other euro companies export based on quality. I know this at least in Spain. In Spain many companies just export with generic names, as it's believed that people associates spanish products with low quality, and this has been apparently confirmed with by Real Instituto Elcano surveys. I did a reddit thread about this: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskEurope/comments/ejgwy7/apparently_being_marketed_as_spanish_brand_is/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskEurope/comments/ejgwy7/apparentl... This also happened with specialized and niche products, where you'd expect your customers, specially b2b, to be more rational in their decisions.

zwieback 7y ago
I changed my mind about that after working with our Barcelona divison - top notch engineering all around.
- magduf 7y ago
  Sounds like Catalonia would be better off separating from Spain since then they could establish their own reputation instead of being dragged down by the rest of the country's poor reputation.
  - pvaldes 7y ago
    And more cliché... Catalonian reputation is heavily, and I'm saying heavily, based in the fact that 1) It played with different (more favourable) rules than other areas, and 2) it attracted talent and workers from all coins of Spain in the past. People from Madrid, Sevilla, Leon, Vigo and Granada is often what would be seen by strangers as "Catalonian talent", for no reason. And I would add that the so called, "Catalonian reputation" has entered in a sinking phase in the last years. Madrid GDP is increasing faster (Madrid alone surpassed the GDP of the entire four Catalonian provinces in 2018 and this was not common in the past) and thousands of companies are slowly losing interest in the area tired from its permanent state of conflict.

BurningFrog 7y ago

> Economics in a nutshell: "There must be a single number that explains all of this!" My experience of Economists is that they love a lot of numbers!

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]