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Glenn Greenwald Charged with Cybercrimes in Brazil
- AndrewBissell 7y agoIt's funny to contrast Greenwald's situation with that of people in the US press who hate his guts, all while they bemoan the Trump admin's threats to press freedom. This is what happens to journalists who actually speak truth to power, rather than flatter it while indulging in a bunch of self-congratulatory theater.
- sodosopa 7y agoIt’s hard to align him with “speaking truth to power” when he was a part of the Russia propaganda machine and their takeover of Wikileaks.
- GavinMcG 7y agoWhy does it have to be one or the other?
- padseeker 7y agoIf you're 'speaking truth to power' only when it suits your already formed opinion, then you're not really speaking truth.
- Supermancho 7y ago> If you're 'speaking truth to power' only when it suits your already formed opinion, then you're not really speaking truth. So truth now has another filter. Only what padseeker thinks is fairly presented? /snark Truth can be communicated many different ways. The interpretation of that truth as non-truth or overvaluing the information or failing to hear out other aspects (because it's presented a specific way) is a failure of the recipient, not the sender. Truth is truth, even if you don't like how it was presented.
- the_absurdist 7y agoSo having bias necessarily makes one's argument untrue?
- GavinMcG 7y agoYou're speaking truth whenever what you're saying is true.
- cyorir 7y agoSure. But you can still be lying by omission. Does the phrase "speaking truth to power" still apply if you are also lying by omission?
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- stanferder 7y agoYes. The true statement remains true.
- iamnothere 7y agoI challenge you to find a single journalist who isn't "lying by omission". Even the most ethical journalist in the world would have limited time, a limited network of sources, a reader base that prefers coverage of specific issues, and personal interests that drive the direction of their reporting. From my perspective, accurate reporting on a limited set of issues is much preferred over "truthy" reporting on a broader set of issues.
- cyorir 7y ago> I challenge you to find a single journalist who isn't "lying by omission". If we're issuing challenges, then I challenge you to prove that every single journalist IS lying by omission. A lie by omission is intentionally leaving out facts to misrepresent the truth. Another way to describe it is that a lie by omission is the cherry-picking of facts. This differs from providing a limited subset of the facts for other reasons. You may not have all the facts yourself, you may not be certain of every fact you have, you may be practically limited by the amount of information that you can convey to your audience (perhaps because the audience only wants to read a 1-page article instead of 10, or perhaps because you don't have the time to write 10 pages instead of 1). In none of these cases are you necessarily lying by omission, as long as you choose to present facts that are representative of the broader set of facts that you have instead of cherry-picking facts to match a given narrative. You may still have implicit bias; that does not mean you are lying by omission because you are not necessarily intending to be biased. Do you believe that every single journalist is intentionally skewing the truth and cherry-picking their facts to match a hidden agenda? I don't.
- draw_down 7y agoYou're right, of course.
- bearcobra 7y agoLove or hate Greenwald, Brazil has less press freedom than the United States and Trump has made numerous statements indicating he would like to impose more restrictions on the press. https://rsf.org/en/ranking https://rsf.org/en/ranking
- giacaglia 7y agoThe fact is that he worked direct with the hackers to hack government information. He is gonna go through the judicial system as everyone does
- AndrewBissell 7y ago"Everyone" Yes, we all remember when the CIA officers responsible for the torture program were prosecuted, or when James Clapper was indicted for lying to Congress, or when the Boeing executives who knowingly sold a plane with safety flaws were brought up on criminal charges. Imagine the threat to the rule of law if we allowed offenders like Greenwald to go unpunished!
- freepor 7y agoOof. I don’t know why he would stay in Brazil while publishing stuff that embarrassed powerful interests in Brazil. You can do that shit in Canada, in Brazil you’re lucky to not get a bullet.
- rtkwe 7y agoYou can publish a handful of stories from abroad but continuing and actually making a larger impact is hard to do from outside the country. If you are able to it's most likely because of other people who did stay are are risking their lives by feeding you information.
- AndrewBissell 7y agoHis husband is Brazilian, and his investigative journalism has probably been far more effective as a result of his physical presence in the country.
- xfalcox 7y agoHe has husband and 4 kids in Brazil. Not easy to move when you have roots in a place.
- brazilianabroad 7y ago> Not easy to move when you have roots in a place. As a Brazilian in voluntary exile due to the violence, I'd respectfully point out that it's also not easy to move when you're dead
- detcader 7y ago"Many courageous Brazilians sacrificed their liberty and even life for Brazilian democracy and against repression, and I feel an obligation to continue their noble work." - Greenwald to The Daily Beast today
- creaghpatr 7y agoHis husband is a Brazilian politician too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Miranda_(politician) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Miranda_(politician)
- padseeker 7y agoLast time I checked Glenn Greenwald was saying that Russian interference had nothing to do with results of the last election and Hillary lost because she was a bad candidate. I have no quibble with the bad candidate line, but it's pretty clear that the Russians we're actively involved trying to get Trump elected. I think some people have legitimate disagreements with Glenn.
- padseeker 7y agoman the russian bots are awfully quick to downvote this stuff
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- dang 7y agoPosting like this breaks the site guidelines. Would you please review them and stick to them in the future? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html If you want more explanation, I posted elsewhere in the thread about a similar case: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22110856 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22110856
- detcader 7y agoThat sounds pretty worrying, as I often respect his commentary and journalism. Can you link to or quote where he claimed what you're saying he did about Russian interference?
- padseeker 7y ago"Journalist Glenn Greenwald told Hill.TV's "Rising" on Monday that the news media's response to the release of special counsel Robert Mueller's report is "genuinely stunning," accusing the press of continuing to promote the "conspiracy" that President Trump's campaign conspired with Russia in 2016." ... “The reality is that for three years there has been a conspiracy theory that has dominated our political and media discourse, which is that Donald Trump conspired with Russia over the 2016 election and that he’s an agent of the Russian government along with many of his associates," he continued. https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/439989-greenwald-says-media-reaction-to-mueller-report-is-genuinely-stunning https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/439989-greenwald-says-medi... He's been very outspoken that he thinks the Russian interference is bs. His angle seems to be the Democrats aren't liberal enough. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/09/03/glenn-greenwald-the-bane-of-their-resistance https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/09/03/glenn-greenwal...
- mici 7y agoMirror: http://archive.is/Eoahu http://archive.is/Eoahu
- detcader 7y agoIn my city I often hear people joking that they'll "move to Canada" if politics gets too annoying for them e.g. Trump is re-elected. I imagine for them, spending a few minutes with Greenwald's principles would be a 2001: A Space Odyssey-level of alien environment.
- diegoholiveira 7y agoIt's important to notice that he's not been charged for publishing those materials. He's been charged for giving instructions to the hackers about targets and contents, like a lider of the hackers. So, it's not a leak, it's a content obtained illegally through a series of crimes.
- crazynick4 7y agoThis is something journalists do all the time. If a source comes to you, even with illegally obtained materials, it is normal for a journalist to ask for more, that's their job.
- diegoholiveira 7y agoWell, that's something that we need to think about: should we allow journalists to be free of charged when they know they sources is actively hacking someone to get those content? I truly don't have an answer, but I think this ethical question must be done.
- crazynick4 7y agoEthically, if the information is in the public interest, ie it exposes some corruption or something illegal that the government is doing that is a detriment to the people it's representing then I think the answer is obviously yes. From a legal standpoint, I don't know, but if the answer is a no then that's a problem with the legal system more than anything.
- sangnoir 7y ago> should we allow journalists to be free of charged when they know they sources is actively hacking someone to get those content? Should journalists be free of charge when they know the source is breaking the Espionage Act? New York Times v United States (1971) says "yes"
- diegoholiveira 7y ago
- epx 7y agoI don't think this will go far, for Greenwald. He didn't invade the Telegram accounts; other people did, yet another people used (and propably paid for) the service, one of them is a hard-left politician that happens to be Greenwald's husband. His involvement was to put the weight of his name to defend his husband's actions. And yes, I look down on Greenwald now, while I used to look up to him when I read 'No Place to Hide', for a variety of reasons. Bolsonaro is a Trump-like clown but make a little research why people voted on the clown first.
- crazynick4 7y agoI was under the impression that people voted for Bolsonaro because they are fed up with a corrupt system. Lula de Silva (who actually was massively popular) was jailed for "corruption" in Operation Car Wash. However, as we now know thanks to Greenwald, this anti-corruption fight was corrupt in itself, and the person overseeing the investigation was cooperating with the prosecutors to strengthen their case. And this same person now holds major office under Bolsonaro.. So what does that say about the whole premise for having a Bolsonaro to 'change the corrupt system'?
- epx 7y agoThis is exactly the story Greenwald is selling, which I disagree with in many points.
- crazynick4 7y agoWhat points? You make it sound as if he stood to profit from this when the outcome has been clearly the opposite, and he himself had predicted it to be as much. His family has been getting death threats as a result of his work, and these carry a lot more weight in Brasil then they would in some country like the US or somewhere in Europe. He is a very credible journalist and his story was widely well-received, his methods of procuring the information aside. If you have disagreements you should state them instead of just stating that you 'have them'
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- thescriptkiddie 7y agoThere is a disturbing level of pro Bolsonaro astroturfing going on in here. Don't be deceived, Greenwald is a political prisoner.
- diegoholiveira 7y ago> Don't be deceived, Greenwald is a political prisoner. He's not arrested, nor his passport.
- piadodjanho 7y agoTo be political prisoner you need to be in prison first. This might be a political persecution, but saying he is a political prisoner is a bit of stretch. It will take several years for his case to be appreciate by every last instance (in Brazil we have 3 instances). Even if he is found guilty, he won't be sentenced to jail.
- mberning 7y agoUsually talk of astroturfing on HN gets you and admonishment from the powers that be. Let’s see what happens.
- dang 7y agoThis comment breaks the site guidelines (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html). Please read and follow them. If you think you see abuse, follow the rules and email us at hn@ycombinator.com so we can investigate. We take such requests seriously and always look at the data. Nearly always, commenters who post like this underestimate how large the HN community is, and therefore how divided it is. This causes them to see a huge unexplained hole when comments show up which strike them as outrageously wrong and biased, and then the mind finds it impossible to resist filling in the hole with sinister imaginations: cloak-and-dagger brigades, astroturfing, and all the rest. When you rush to HN to post those suspicions, you end up undermining and dividing the community even further, as well as changing the topic to something useless, since it's founded on imagination. The solution is not to post such insinuations unless you have objective information that goes beyond how you feel. By "you", of course, I'm not picking on you personally—I mean all of us. This is a bias we all have, and it's super hard to resist when the feeling is strong, because it seems almost impossible that the outrageous comments could be appearing in good faith. In reality, though, what you're experiencing is how intense the underlying social divide is. HN has many users in Brazil. As Brazilian politics is divided, Brazilian politics on HN is divided. And HN has been split down the middle about Greenwald for a long time. There's an endless stream of prior explanations at https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=true&page=0&query=by:dang%20astroturf https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme..., because this problem is perennial. p.s. I wish I didn't have to add this, but probably do: this is not a pro-Bolsonaro or anti-Greenwald comment. It is simply pro-HN, based on what makes threads higher vs. lower quality.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- airstrike 7y agoBefore commenting, let's all pause for a minute and recognize that: (a) we're not versed in Brazilian Law (b) we don't really have all the facts of the case (c) "charged with" and "found guilty of" are vastly different things (d) one's opinion on the morality of a certain alleged episode has no bearing on its legality
- bawolff 7y ago> (d) one's opinion on the morality of a certain alleged episode has no bearing on its legality While this is true, the related question over whether the law in question is "just", is very much a relavent issue, and something worthy of comment.
- elicash 7y agoAre folks actually questioning the "just" nature of a law, really? If so, which law? Or are folks questioning whether that law is being falsely applied in this instance? I think it's the latter. Folks are saying, essentially, that he wasn't part of the conspiracy to commit a cybercrime but that he was working as a journalist who simply received information. That's a very fact-dependent claim. I don't think folks here would say that journalists have blanket immunity to commit cybercrime or anything like that -- this seems like a dispute over the facts. Of which we have basically none.
- rodolphoarruda 7y agoThere are recordings of GG kind of "coordinating" actions of the hacker group right in the middle of the process of extracting private messages. Hacker would ask GG's opinion about what to do next: 1. expand the attack 2. stop and assess what they've gotten so far. Then GG clearly advise them to continue to extract more data. So state attorneys now think this attitude "crossed some lines" with crime to which GG is an accomplice.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
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- buboard 7y agoOf course he would be. He recently talked about his adventures in brazil to the Taibbi&Halper podcast : https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K05mVkmF8Bk https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K05mVkmF8Bk I hope he manages to skip out of this cause his kind of reporting is rare.
- piadodjanho 7y agoIn case someone is wondering how they hacked Telegram. They used caller id spoofing and a telco vulnerability. 1. Change your phone ID and try to login on Telegram; 2. Telegram will send an SMS with an authentication number followed by a phone call to the actual mobile phone; 3. To avoid the message going through, spams the victim with many VoIP calls; 4. The Telegram call will be recorded on the missed call voice messages; In Brazil, you can listen to the recorded messages calling your own number. Surprisingly, the telco only checks if the calling number was equal to the called number. 5. Again, with the call id spoofing, call your own number. 6. Now you have access to the victim's Telegram (past conversations and contact list) 7. ??? 8. Profit. EDIT: I translated part of the transcription used to accuse GG in another thread.
- jaifraic 7y agoI'm surprised that 2FA wasn't activated.
- ta999999171 7y agoI'm not...Greenwald, while an incredibly brave journalist, and friend of consumer tech rights, struggled to use PGP keys with Snowden...
- elicash 7y agoIsn't it possible he used it but the person he was speaking with didn't? At least from a U.S. perspective, it seems more likely that law enforcement would try to get a court order to get into the hacker's conversations than a journalist's.
- piadodjanho 7y agoThe supreme court judges already stated that Gleen Greenwald cannot be investigated because the reporting. The police got this conversation from a backup kept by the hackers. There is no chance this accusation will be accept by a judge, it goes against the constitution. Some people speculate the prosecutor was looking for exposure and might run for some position in the next election.
- piadodjanho 7y agoThe accusation [1] is public. I will translate the highlight parts of the conversation transcription between the hacker and Gleen Greenwald. In another thread I discussed how they hacked the Telegram accounts. Page 58: > MOLIÇÃO: Like it happened with Danilo Gentilli, the MBL and Holiday. We got [their Telegram account] last october. They only started talking [on the news] about this [Telegram hacking] now. Some context: Danilo Gentilli is a liberal tv show host that was very vocal on the last election; MBL is acronym to "Free Brazil Movement"; Holiday is a politician with MBL affiliation. In Brazil, the liberals are the right-wings. Their motto is "Liberal on the economy and conservative on the customs", custom as traditional practice. On page 58: > GG: Because, for instance, if they knew that someone is getting ready to publish [the hacked conversations], or worst, that we [The InterceptBR] are ready to publish, they would get an judicial order to forbid the publication or reporting of this material. But so far, no one have done that. Therefore, it look like they don't know who has "this material". > GG: They know someone have this, but they don't know who has it. > M: Yes. We also want to know your opinion about something... Once you publish the articles, everyone will exclude their conversations, everyone will exclude their Telegram. We want to know what do you suggest us should to do. We have some names separated, we can get [their conversation from Telegram] this weekend or leave it for a while. [I ask this]because, there are some people that already changed their number, we can't get their conversations anymore. Page 60. > GG [black text included]: Yes. Look, we are going to [??], what is going to happen? They are going for sure try to accuse us in participating in the hacking. They are going to accuse that us of being part on the hacking attempt. For sure, they are going to accuse us. So, I'll keep the messages for myself, the messages are the proof that you only talked to us after you already done everything. This is very important for us as journalist to show that our source only talked after they already had everything. Page 61. > GG [only text in red]: We already saved everything, we received everything. I think you had any reason to keep any of this, understood? In the bold text, Molicao asks if they should hack more people, he wanted to know GG opnion. Page 62. > GG: Yes, yes. This is difficult because I can't give you advice but I've the obligation to protect my source and this obligation is a very serious obligation, very serious. We are going to do everything we can to do this, understood? > GG [only red text]: Also, we are going to say we received everything before those articles from the other week about Moro [begin hacked], about the other hacking. [1] https://politica.estadao.com.br/blogs/fausto-macedo/wp-content/uploads/sites/41/2020/01/TARJADAdenuncia-spoofing.pdf https://politica.estadao.com.br/blogs/fausto-macedo/wp-conte...
- coliveira 7y agoThe goal of this persecution is not necessarily to jail Glenn Greenwald. What they want is to muddle the discourse and to discredit the journalists involved in this reporting. Let's remember that the group of prosecutors in question are supporters of the current government and the ex-judge is now the justice minister, a position he occupied just after releasing "dirt" on the government opponents to facilitate the presidential election. They have resorted in the last few years to all kinds of political and judicial tricks to silence their opponents through courts. This is exactly the kind of manipulation that was exposed by Glenn Greenwald.
- moralsupply 7y ago> a position he occupied just after releasing "dirt" on the government opponents to facilitate the presidential election That judge went after one of the largest corruption scandals of our age. There's no evidence he did so in order to acquire a political position: at the heyday of the prosecutions against the workers party, the current president (who made the judge one of his ministers) wasn't even widely known by the population. On the other hand, Greenwald, who works for The Intercept and is funded by Pierre Omidyar (one of Ebay's founders), has a very strong leftist agenda (he's a regular in communist conventions and whatnot, for that matter), and has been working in all ways possible to discredit the current government while praising the previous government which was impeached -- the one whose party members have been convicted by various crimes, mostly corruption related. It's hard to argue that Greenwald was exposing some sort of manipulation by the judicial system. He was trying to manipulate the media by creating a narrative using information that he acquired illegally, and that he couldn't use to demonstrate wrongdoing in the end of the story.
- wallace_f 7y agoIs attacking Grewnwald's character relevant here? Anyways, if it is, Greenwald has been one of the most outspoken critics of many aspects of the Russiagate accusations against Trump(1); and in consideration of your aforementioned "liberal agenda" of his, it hardly makes any sense at all to label him on this hand a Trump defender--as he has been accused of--and on the other a 'liberal commie.' 1-https://theintercept.com/2019/01/20/beyond-buzzfeed-the-10-worst-most-embarrassing-u-s-media-failures-on-the-trumprussia-story/ https://theintercept.com/2019/01/20/beyond-buzzfeed-the-10-w...