10 ms·

I don't get the obsession with custom keyboard with ever fewer keys. If I designed one, if anything it would have at least a few more modifier keys that a stan

by ardy42 7y ago

I don't get the obsession with custom keyboard with ever fewer keys. If I designed one, if anything it would have at least a few more modifier keys that a standard keyboard.

anotheryou 7y ago
Fewer keys often means more modifiers (if not going to such an extreme as here). That way you can make room for numpad, F-keys or odd keys like page-up or end etc..
- ta09876 7y ago
  True, but unfortunately those extra modifiers are now used up for getting the original keyboard back. If you want to do, e.g. Control-Shift-Arrow to select text, you now have to use even more modifiers. I'm currently using a Razer Anansi which is a full size keyboard with extra modifier keys under the space bar. Combined with AutoHotKey and Caps Lock, I can select text with the keyboard without moving away from home row. E.g. CapsLock + Ctrl(thumb) + Shift(thumb) + L does Control-Shift-RightArrow. I do wish full size keyboards stopped wasting so much space with the space bar though, the way small keyboards do. That would put more modifier keys in the reach of your thumbs.
  - pkamb 7y ago
    Japanese keyboards have a tiny spacebar and a couple extra modifier keys for writing Japanese Characters. I have a Japanese ThinkPad external keyboard that I ordered for using the extra thumb keys, but I haven't started using it yet.
  - alpaca128 7y ago
    > If you want to do, e.g. Control-Shift-Arrow to select text, you now have to use even more modifiers. Or you're using Vim where just hitting v is all it takes. I definitely wouldn't use an even smaller board than 40%, though - that is basically the lower limit for me where I can still map all keys to positions I'm comfortable with. Lower than that and I'd need to start using multiple modifiers at once for some symbols.
  - neoberg 7y ago
    Using programmable keyboards with a firmware like QMK, you can reduce the number of modifiers needed on smaller keyboards. I use a 30%(33 keys) as my daily driver and I very rarely need 3+ button combos even though my arrow keys are in a seperate layer. For example: My "A" and "O" key acts as shift when held. My "Z" key switches to the layer where "h;,." are arrow keys and adds "CMD" as a modifier. So to select left I do "Z + A + H". I use colemak so A is right above Z. There are other tricks I do for reducing layer switches. On almost every keyboard "." and "," are next to each other but they are never used together in any human or programming language. "/" is not used that often so it doesn't make much sense to have it in the main layer of a small keyboard. So I made my "," key to output a "/" if pressed immediately after "." for typing "./". I have some other keys that act different if pressed after a certain key.
- geoah 7y ago
  My main drivers are 40% split keyboards, which usually mean between 42 to 48 keys. Even with just one additional layer (other than the default one) you have enough keys for numbers and symbols. If you are in need of f keys or media keys maybe you need three layers in total. Takes a bit to get used to the fact that some symbols don’t need shift to be activated but rather are in a different place but it’s not too long of a process. That been said, I honestly can’t imagine how you’d write code with 28 keys. I assume this is for some sort of steno.
ecliptik 7y ago
While this keyboard is too small for me personally, something like a 40% or a 60% is doable since they retain the modifier keys. These keyboard sizes are great for traveling or taking somewhere with a laptop to give a "proper" keyboard experience without being overly bulky. Keyboards with support for custom firmware (https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/ https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/) can also greatly increase the functions of normally single-use keys at the cost of a steeper learning curve.
- jethro_tell 7y ago
  yeah, I'm in the 61 key zone and it drops right into my bag as needed. I mostly grew up on laptop keyboards, so I don't have much use for a 104 key board. And I don't really use the function keys for anything, so I don't really need that row, I use vim bindings for my arrow keys and page up/down so don't need those keys. I find that I use a 61 key keyboard without any layering or special mapping. Though I do program a few macros here and there but no real need to use layers for my workflow.
notJim 7y ago
This one has too few keys for me, but I love the minimal cuteness of these tiny keyboards.
cmgxyz 7y ago
I think a certain amount of it is just a fascination with minimalism for the sake of it and clever firmware tricks, but one argument for it is ergonomics. Simply: fewer keys means less travel for your wrists and fingers, albeit (as someone mentioned) at the cost of a steeper learning curve in order to master the layer-switching and dual-use keys that you need to make such a small keyboard work. Germ, designer of the Gergo split-ergo keyboard that I currently use at home, has a good post on it here: https://blog.gboards.ca/2019/11/on-gergoplex-and-updates-lets-get.html https://blog.gboards.ca/2019/11/on-gergoplex-and-updates-let...
- SuperPaintMan 7y ago
  I'm currently working on the ASETNIOP layout for Ginny (A 10 key keyboard), while wildly impractical next to something like GergoPlex, it's a fun exercise in insanity. https://www.gboards.ca/product/gergoplex https://www.gboards.ca/product/gergoplex https://www.gboards.ca/product/ginni https://www.gboards.ca/product/ginni
amelius 7y ago
I don't get why most keyboards available in stores have a numpad. I never use it, and it takes up valuable space on my desk. I wonder how many people actually use the numpad section of a keyboard on a daily basis.
- cmgxyz 7y ago
  I use mine more now that it's right under my fingers via a layer switch ;) I use a Keyboardio Model01 split ergonomic keyboard at work.
- michaelt 7y ago
  I use it for entering numbers, sure. Almost every fancy mechanical keyboard seems to do away with it, though, so presumably a lot of people are OK without one.
  - jethro_tell 7y ago
    you can defiantly get 104 key mech boards, and 120 key mech boards are easy to find if that's your thing. With that said, when you're paying $1+ per switch, there's a a good chunk of the market that doesn't mind saving the $40+ to have the extra keys removed. Adding keys to a cheap board is an easy way to add functionality, but once you pay to have customizable firmware, it's just as easy and cheaper to put those keys on a layer.
- gbrown 7y ago
  I require a numpad - any time I need to enter more than a few numbers, the speed difference is unbelievable. I’d say most analytics focused people will need to do something like this at some point - that, and people who are forced to interact with spreadsheets occasionally.
  - StavrosK 7y ago
    I just set up my tilde key to change the right half of my keyboard to a numpad when held down, so I'm not missing anything. Seems like a good tradeoff.
BubRoss 7y ago
I don't understand it either. I built a keyboard with fewer keys and it makes programming very difficult, even if having the keyboard split apart is much more ergonomic.
- clarry 7y ago
  I've been on 40% for a couple months now, and I don't find programming to be more difficult. I'd say it's about the same, just different.
  - neoberg 7y ago
    I've been on 30% for a year now (programming) and never going back. Was using a split 40 before.
    - clarry 7y ago
      I would love to see your layout & settings!
      - neoberg 7y ago
        Hey. This is my keyboard (and the layout): https://imgur.com/gallery/GwQONlT https://imgur.com/gallery/GwQONlT And my keymap file: https://gist.github.com/burakcan/dbb292e47df2defaffd405669fec0e11 https://gist.github.com/burakcan/dbb292e47df2defaffd405669fe...
        clarry 7y ago
        Thanks. That's a very nice looking keyboard. And I like that it's wireless! It's probably not something I would use unless I can find a way to make mod-tap more reliable for me (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22112693 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22112693). But using a tap dance for ESC (or some other key) seems like an idea I could steal to free up a key for other uses. This also got me to look into quad function tap dance and I realized I could use it to bind altgr to the same key I use for alt and dash with a double tap + hold. This should work since I've never seen any program require a combo that uses alt and altgr at the same time. It seems like you don't have a mechanism for inputting ^X, how do you deal with that?
Aloha 7y ago
I'd like a 200 key keyboard please, will full macro functionality and programability
- StavrosK 7y ago
  Why? I have an 80 key keyboard and even that's too many, since I have a bunch of layer-changing keys.
  - falcolas 7y ago
    Answering for myself: It's another thing I have to remember, or visually look for. I have to remember the state of the keyboard, I have to remember even more key chords, or both. I have enough cognitive load going on keeping a programming, gaming, or design stack going in my head to add another load keeping track of the status of my input device. Even should the actions become muscle memory (I own, but no longer use, a HHKB and know that muscle memory fits in), that muscle memory will fail me the moment I have to use another keyboard, causing a mental stutter as I consciously override my muscle memory (with the HHKB, that was escape and delete in particular). Moreover, I can feel my way around a keyboard and find all of the keys I could need by the clustering and relative position to the home row. Since I don't rest my hands on the keyboard while typing, this movement is not at all uncomfortable or distracting. That's why I like full keyboards, why even I could find a keyboard with more keys useful.
    - Aloha 7y ago
      Yeah, I used to have a dumb terminal on my desk, and I used the macro functionality inherent to it to semi-automate all sorts of workflows for myself, it was very very helpful.
- mkl 7y ago
  You can have that. Just plug in another one, and write a script that opens the device exclusively and interprets the events so it doesn't send normal keystrokes.
fossuser 7y ago
It's fashion more than anything - and it's fun to play with something you use on a regular basis. I like the HHKB because of its default layout and how it feels in addition to the way it looks. I wouldn't use these smaller ones, but I understand why people like to play with them.
- filoleg 7y ago
  Agreed. I feel like HHKB hits that sweet spot where it is minimalistic, but still very usable without messing with layers. If it had just a few more buttons (left Ctrl + arrow keys; though I personally don't care for left Ctrl, as I have remapped it to CapsLock, just Like I do on every keyboard), then I wouldn't even need to use the Fn key at all either.
  - fossuser 7y ago
    Part of the reason I’ve stuck with the HHKB for a few years now is that I like its default arrow key layout better than regular arrow keys. Using your right pinkie to hit function and then having the arrows right there is nice. I also use caps lock as control and it’s nice to have it as a hardware default in the HHKB too.
    - filoleg 7y ago
      Oh yeah, totally agreed, I absolutely love how the arrow keys work on HHKB. I would be lying if I said there wasn't a learning curve to it, however. First few weeks, i was definitely missing the correct keys, but once it got into my muscle memory, it became great.
- archarios 7y ago
  It's not for me. I like fewer keys because I find that it's easier/more comfortable to use layers rather than have to do a weird reach for some key I need.
  - Waterluvian 7y ago
ohazi 7y ago
I think TKL/80% keyboards strike a good balance. I never really got used to using the numpad block, and it's nice to have the mouse a little bit closer. But I definitely use the navigation keys (both the arrow keys and the Ins/Del/Home/End/PgUp/PgDn block), F-keys, symbols (`~[{]}\|;:'",<.>/?), all of the modifier keys, Esc, and PrtSc.
intortus 7y ago
I would prefer fewer keys if I were building my first keyboard.
somehnguy 7y ago
I'm a fan of 60% or tenkeyless (TKL) keyboards personally. I get this weird feeling of my desk being cramped that I really don't like sometimes. A TKL keyboard solved that for me. And don't miss the numpad because I don't enter long strings of numbers much anyway.
- mello151 7y ago
  I'm right there with you. It feels much better to me to be able to have the mouse more in-front of me than off to the side, especially when gaming. I tried to go 60%(?) with a Pok3r but I like having the arrow keys available without having to use a modifier key.
  - Kwantuum 7y ago
    65% might be the sweet spot, I have the tada68[1] because I wanted a smaller keyboard but really didn't want to lose my arrow keys and I'm very happy with it! [1] https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0267/1905/products/tada68-3_7b8289f1-70f4-4d78-9367-ab949a03aab2_1024x1024.jpg?v=1489699621 https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0267/1905/products/tada68-...
  - JimmyAustin 7y ago
    My regular home board is a GK64, which has the same layout as the Pok3r, but includes an arrow key cluster (at the cost of smaller modifiers on the right side and a 1U Rshift).
  - somehnguy 7y ago
    Just learned that there is a difference between 60% and TKL, thanks. I've been treating them as the same thing.. I just learned about the existence of smaller keyboards like a year ago, have always had one of those monstrous l33t gamer keyboards decked out with macro keys because they were the only mechanical ones at decent prices last time I was in the market. Just hated the space it took up on my desk. Right now I'm using a cheap Reddragon K552 because I too like having the arrow keys available and mechanical+backlit was non-negotiable for me. After a few months of heavy use the cheapness is starting to show itself in the key wobble though, do you have any suggestions for a decently priced alternative with better build quality?
jrockway 7y ago
I built a 107 key ergonomic keyboard last week. Still writing up the details, but trust me, you are not the only one that wants a lot of keys ;) This is the layout: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/f903ee27a11bcb6ea3315cf9496cf3e8 http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/f903ee27a11bcb... (The legends as shown are not what the keys actually do; when I was designing the layout I was trying very carefully to use keycaps that come with a default GMK group buy set... this was how I kept track.) I think the obsession with small keyboards is manyfold: 1) Large keyboards get in the way of the mouse. 2) People have noticed that they have to move strangely to press keys the farther away they are from home row. 1 is a stretch for most people, F5 is probably impossible. So why include them? 3) It's easier. After laying out 107 keys in CAD, waiting for an 18"x9" keyboard to print in three pieces, soldering 107 diodes, soldering 27 wires to my microcontroller, and reading the entire STM32F103 reference manual to figure out why one row didn't work... I can tell you that a 28 key keyboard seems a lot easier to build ;) 4) They use the same keyboard for home and work, and want something easier to carry around. When I switched to an Ergodox a couple years ago, I managed this for about 3 days before buying another one. To me $600 on keyboards is nothing, but to a lot of people, that's unimaginable. Personally, I see the advantages with both approaches. I don't actually have ({}) keys on my keyboard; they're on a layer and under the jkl; fingers, because that's easier to type than moving my pinky to some weird place to jab them with my weakest finger hundreds of times a day. So using a Planck or a 28 key keyboard wouldn't feel all that different to me when programming or writing prose. But what people don't consider are all the cases where you aren't touch typing but are instead issuing high-level commands to the computer. Some people frequently use mouse-driven software (CAD, video editing, etc.) and have the option to either pick a command out of the menu, or press a key on the keyboard. With a 28 key keyboard, the typing route means taking your hands off the mouse and pressing at least three keys at the same time. So you pick it out of the menu. With a full keyboard, you can use the "wrong hand" to press F12 or something, and not break your flow by navigating through 8 layers of menus. (Even with all this in mind, a split 107 key keyboard doesn't help every use case. Some games really want you to type right hand keys with your left hand, and a split keyboard makes that difficult. I don't play any of those games, though ;)
reportgunner 7y ago
It's not really an obsession. I grew up with using a laptop majority of the time so I simply don't expect a numpad to be there anymore. Also it's more comfortable to use the arrow keys and PgUp, PgDown without the numpad. (I'm on TKL)
neoberg 7y ago
Well, I use a 30% (33 keys) as my daily driver for programming. I like being able to reach every key and function without leaving the home position at all. Plus, I use my laptop outside of office a lot and I can very easily carry this keyboard around with me. It even fits into my coat's pocket.
jedimastert 7y ago
> I don't get the obsession with custom keyboard with ever fewer keys. IIRC, this idea was originally proposed on reddit as a joke taking this idea to the extreme.

by ardy42 7y ago

I don't get the obsession with custom keyboard with ever fewer keys. If I designed one, if anything it would have at least a few more modifier keys that a standard keyboard.

anotheryou 7y ago

Fewer keys often means more modifiers (if not going to such an extreme as here). That way you can make room for numpad, F-keys or odd keys like page-up or end etc..

ta09876 7y ago
True, but unfortunately those extra modifiers are now used up for getting the original keyboard back. If you want to do, e.g. Control-Shift-Arrow to select text, you now have to use even more modifiers. I'm currently using a Razer Anansi which is a full size keyboard with extra modifier keys under the space bar. Combined with AutoHotKey and Caps Lock, I can select text with the keyboard without moving away from home row. E.g. CapsLock + Ctrl(thumb) + Shift(thumb) + L does Control-Shift-RightArrow. I do wish full size keyboards stopped wasting so much space with the space bar though, the way small keyboards do. That would put more modifier keys in the reach of your thumbs.
- pkamb 7y ago
  Japanese keyboards have a tiny spacebar and a couple extra modifier keys for writing Japanese Characters. I have a Japanese ThinkPad external keyboard that I ordered for using the extra thumb keys, but I haven't started using it yet.
- alpaca128 7y ago
  > If you want to do, e.g. Control-Shift-Arrow to select text, you now have to use even more modifiers. Or you're using Vim where just hitting v is all it takes. I definitely wouldn't use an even smaller board than 40%, though - that is basically the lower limit for me where I can still map all keys to positions I'm comfortable with. Lower than that and I'd need to start using multiple modifiers at once for some symbols.
- neoberg 7y ago
  Using programmable keyboards with a firmware like QMK, you can reduce the number of modifiers needed on smaller keyboards. I use a 30%(33 keys) as my daily driver and I very rarely need 3+ button combos even though my arrow keys are in a seperate layer. For example: My "A" and "O" key acts as shift when held. My "Z" key switches to the layer where "h;,." are arrow keys and adds "CMD" as a modifier. So to select left I do "Z + A + H". I use colemak so A is right above Z. There are other tricks I do for reducing layer switches. On almost every keyboard "." and "," are next to each other but they are never used together in any human or programming language. "/" is not used that often so it doesn't make much sense to have it in the main layer of a small keyboard. So I made my "," key to output a "/" if pressed immediately after "." for typing "./". I have some other keys that act different if pressed after a certain key.
geoah 7y ago
My main drivers are 40% split keyboards, which usually mean between 42 to 48 keys. Even with just one additional layer (other than the default one) you have enough keys for numbers and symbols. If you are in need of f keys or media keys maybe you need three layers in total. Takes a bit to get used to the fact that some symbols don’t need shift to be activated but rather are in a different place but it’s not too long of a process. That been said, I honestly can’t imagine how you’d write code with 28 keys. I assume this is for some sort of steno.

ecliptik 7y ago

While this keyboard is too small for me personally, something like a 40% or a 60% is doable since they retain the modifier keys. These keyboard sizes are great for traveling or taking somewhere with a laptop to give a "proper" keyboard experience without being overly bulky. Keyboards with support for custom firmware (https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/ https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/) can also greatly increase the functions of normally single-use keys at the cost of a steeper learning curve.

jethro_tell 7y ago
yeah, I'm in the 61 key zone and it drops right into my bag as needed. I mostly grew up on laptop keyboards, so I don't have much use for a 104 key board. And I don't really use the function keys for anything, so I don't really need that row, I use vim bindings for my arrow keys and page up/down so don't need those keys. I find that I use a 61 key keyboard without any layering or special mapping. Though I do program a few macros here and there but no real need to use layers for my workflow.

notJim 7y ago

This one has too few keys for me, but I love the minimal cuteness of these tiny keyboards.

cmgxyz 7y ago

I think a certain amount of it is just a fascination with minimalism for the sake of it and clever firmware tricks, but one argument for it is ergonomics. Simply: fewer keys means less travel for your wrists and fingers, albeit (as someone mentioned) at the cost of a steeper learning curve in order to master the layer-switching and dual-use keys that you need to make such a small keyboard work. Germ, designer of the Gergo split-ergo keyboard that I currently use at home, has a good post on it here: https://blog.gboards.ca/2019/11/on-gergoplex-and-updates-lets-get.html https://blog.gboards.ca/2019/11/on-gergoplex-and-updates-let...

SuperPaintMan 7y ago
I'm currently working on the ASETNIOP layout for Ginny (A 10 key keyboard), while wildly impractical next to something like GergoPlex, it's a fun exercise in insanity. https://www.gboards.ca/product/gergoplex https://www.gboards.ca/product/gergoplex https://www.gboards.ca/product/ginni https://www.gboards.ca/product/ginni

amelius 7y ago

I don't get why most keyboards available in stores have a numpad. I never use it, and it takes up valuable space on my desk. I wonder how many people actually use the numpad section of a keyboard on a daily basis.

cmgxyz 7y ago
I use mine more now that it's right under my fingers via a layer switch ;) I use a Keyboardio Model01 split ergonomic keyboard at work.
michaelt 7y ago
I use it for entering numbers, sure. Almost every fancy mechanical keyboard seems to do away with it, though, so presumably a lot of people are OK without one.
- jethro_tell 7y ago
  you can defiantly get 104 key mech boards, and 120 key mech boards are easy to find if that's your thing. With that said, when you're paying $1+ per switch, there's a a good chunk of the market that doesn't mind saving the $40+ to have the extra keys removed. Adding keys to a cheap board is an easy way to add functionality, but once you pay to have customizable firmware, it's just as easy and cheaper to put those keys on a layer.
gbrown 7y ago
I require a numpad - any time I need to enter more than a few numbers, the speed difference is unbelievable. I’d say most analytics focused people will need to do something like this at some point - that, and people who are forced to interact with spreadsheets occasionally.
- StavrosK 7y ago
  I just set up my tilde key to change the right half of my keyboard to a numpad when held down, so I'm not missing anything. Seems like a good tradeoff.

BubRoss 7y ago

I don't understand it either. I built a keyboard with fewer keys and it makes programming very difficult, even if having the keyboard split apart is much more ergonomic.

clarry 7y ago
I've been on 40% for a couple months now, and I don't find programming to be more difficult. I'd say it's about the same, just different.
- neoberg 7y ago
  I've been on 30% for a year now (programming) and never going back. Was using a split 40 before.
  - clarry 7y ago
    I would love to see your layout & settings!
    - neoberg 7y ago
      Hey. This is my keyboard (and the layout): https://imgur.com/gallery/GwQONlT https://imgur.com/gallery/GwQONlT And my keymap file: https://gist.github.com/burakcan/dbb292e47df2defaffd405669fec0e11 https://gist.github.com/burakcan/dbb292e47df2defaffd405669fe...
      - clarry 7y ago
        Thanks. That's a very nice looking keyboard. And I like that it's wireless! It's probably not something I would use unless I can find a way to make mod-tap more reliable for me (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22112693 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22112693). But using a tap dance for ESC (or some other key) seems like an idea I could steal to free up a key for other uses. This also got me to look into quad function tap dance and I realized I could use it to bind altgr to the same key I use for alt and dash with a double tap + hold. This should work since I've never seen any program require a combo that uses alt and altgr at the same time. It seems like you don't have a mechanism for inputting ^X, how do you deal with that?

Aloha 7y ago

I'd like a 200 key keyboard please, will full macro functionality and programability

StavrosK 7y ago
Why? I have an 80 key keyboard and even that's too many, since I have a bunch of layer-changing keys.
- falcolas 7y ago
  Answering for myself: It's another thing I have to remember, or visually look for. I have to remember the state of the keyboard, I have to remember even more key chords, or both. I have enough cognitive load going on keeping a programming, gaming, or design stack going in my head to add another load keeping track of the status of my input device. Even should the actions become muscle memory (I own, but no longer use, a HHKB and know that muscle memory fits in), that muscle memory will fail me the moment I have to use another keyboard, causing a mental stutter as I consciously override my muscle memory (with the HHKB, that was escape and delete in particular). Moreover, I can feel my way around a keyboard and find all of the keys I could need by the clustering and relative position to the home row. Since I don't rest my hands on the keyboard while typing, this movement is not at all uncomfortable or distracting. That's why I like full keyboards, why even I could find a keyboard with more keys useful.
  - Aloha 7y ago
    Yeah, I used to have a dumb terminal on my desk, and I used the macro functionality inherent to it to semi-automate all sorts of workflows for myself, it was very very helpful.
mkl 7y ago
You can have that. Just plug in another one, and write a script that opens the device exclusively and interprets the events so it doesn't send normal keystrokes.

fossuser 7y ago

It's fashion more than anything - and it's fun to play with something you use on a regular basis. I like the HHKB because of its default layout and how it feels in addition to the way it looks. I wouldn't use these smaller ones, but I understand why people like to play with them.

filoleg 7y ago
Agreed. I feel like HHKB hits that sweet spot where it is minimalistic, but still very usable without messing with layers. If it had just a few more buttons (left Ctrl + arrow keys; though I personally don't care for left Ctrl, as I have remapped it to CapsLock, just Like I do on every keyboard), then I wouldn't even need to use the Fn key at all either.
- fossuser 7y ago
  Part of the reason I’ve stuck with the HHKB for a few years now is that I like its default arrow key layout better than regular arrow keys. Using your right pinkie to hit function and then having the arrows right there is nice. I also use caps lock as control and it’s nice to have it as a hardware default in the HHKB too.
  - filoleg 7y ago
    Oh yeah, totally agreed, I absolutely love how the arrow keys work on HHKB. I would be lying if I said there wasn't a learning curve to it, however. First few weeks, i was definitely missing the correct keys, but once it got into my muscle memory, it became great.
archarios 7y ago
It's not for me. I like fewer keys because I find that it's easier/more comfortable to use layers rather than have to do a weird reach for some key I need.
- Waterluvian 7y ago

ohazi 7y ago

I think TKL/80% keyboards strike a good balance. I never really got used to using the numpad block, and it's nice to have the mouse a little bit closer. But I definitely use the navigation keys (both the arrow keys and the Ins/Del/Home/End/PgUp/PgDn block), F-keys, symbols (`~[{]}\|;:'",<.>/?), all of the modifier keys, Esc, and PrtSc.

intortus 7y ago

I would prefer fewer keys if I were building my first keyboard.

somehnguy 7y ago

I'm a fan of 60% or tenkeyless (TKL) keyboards personally. I get this weird feeling of my desk being cramped that I really don't like sometimes. A TKL keyboard solved that for me. And don't miss the numpad because I don't enter long strings of numbers much anyway.

mello151 7y ago
I'm right there with you. It feels much better to me to be able to have the mouse more in-front of me than off to the side, especially when gaming. I tried to go 60%(?) with a Pok3r but I like having the arrow keys available without having to use a modifier key.
- Kwantuum 7y ago
  65% might be the sweet spot, I have the tada68[1] because I wanted a smaller keyboard but really didn't want to lose my arrow keys and I'm very happy with it! [1] https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0267/1905/products/tada68-3_7b8289f1-70f4-4d78-9367-ab949a03aab2_1024x1024.jpg?v=1489699621 https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0267/1905/products/tada68-...
- JimmyAustin 7y ago
  My regular home board is a GK64, which has the same layout as the Pok3r, but includes an arrow key cluster (at the cost of smaller modifiers on the right side and a 1U Rshift).
- somehnguy 7y ago
  Just learned that there is a difference between 60% and TKL, thanks. I've been treating them as the same thing.. I just learned about the existence of smaller keyboards like a year ago, have always had one of those monstrous l33t gamer keyboards decked out with macro keys because they were the only mechanical ones at decent prices last time I was in the market. Just hated the space it took up on my desk. Right now I'm using a cheap Reddragon K552 because I too like having the arrow keys available and mechanical+backlit was non-negotiable for me. After a few months of heavy use the cheapness is starting to show itself in the key wobble though, do you have any suggestions for a decently priced alternative with better build quality?

jrockway 7y ago

I built a 107 key ergonomic keyboard last week. Still writing up the details, but trust me, you are not the only one that wants a lot of keys ;) This is the layout: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/f903ee27a11bcb6ea3315cf9496cf3e8 http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/f903ee27a11bcb... (The legends as shown are not what the keys actually do; when I was designing the layout I was trying very carefully to use keycaps that come with a default GMK group buy set... this was how I kept track.) I think the obsession with small keyboards is manyfold: 1) Large keyboards get in the way of the mouse. 2) People have noticed that they have to move strangely to press keys the farther away they are from home row. 1 is a stretch for most people, F5 is probably impossible. So why include them? 3) It's easier. After laying out 107 keys in CAD, waiting for an 18"x9" keyboard to print in three pieces, soldering 107 diodes, soldering 27 wires to my microcontroller, and reading the entire STM32F103 reference manual to figure out why one row didn't work... I can tell you that a 28 key keyboard seems a lot easier to build ;) 4) They use the same keyboard for home and work, and want something easier to carry around. When I switched to an Ergodox a couple years ago, I managed this for about 3 days before buying another one. To me $600 on keyboards is nothing, but to a lot of people, that's unimaginable. Personally, I see the advantages with both approaches. I don't actually have ({}) keys on my keyboard; they're on a layer and under the jkl; fingers, because that's easier to type than moving my pinky to some weird place to jab them with my weakest finger hundreds of times a day. So using a Planck or a 28 key keyboard wouldn't feel all that different to me when programming or writing prose. But what people don't consider are all the cases where you aren't touch typing but are instead issuing high-level commands to the computer. Some people frequently use mouse-driven software (CAD, video editing, etc.) and have the option to either pick a command out of the menu, or press a key on the keyboard. With a 28 key keyboard, the typing route means taking your hands off the mouse and pressing at least three keys at the same time. So you pick it out of the menu. With a full keyboard, you can use the "wrong hand" to press F12 or something, and not break your flow by navigating through 8 layers of menus. (Even with all this in mind, a split 107 key keyboard doesn't help every use case. Some games really want you to type right hand keys with your left hand, and a split keyboard makes that difficult. I don't play any of those games, though ;)

reportgunner 7y ago

It's not really an obsession. I grew up with using a laptop majority of the time so I simply don't expect a numpad to be there anymore. Also it's more comfortable to use the arrow keys and PgUp, PgDown without the numpad. (I'm on TKL)

neoberg 7y ago

Well, I use a 30% (33 keys) as my daily driver for programming. I like being able to reach every key and function without leaving the home position at all. Plus, I use my laptop outside of office a lot and I can very easily carry this keyboard around with me. It even fits into my coat's pocket.

jedimastert 7y ago

> I don't get the obsession with custom keyboard with ever fewer keys. IIRC, this idea was originally proposed on reddit as a joke taking this idea to the extreme.