13 ms·

28-Key Mechanical Keyboard

86 points by ecliptik 7y ago

ardy42 7y ago
I don't get the obsession with custom keyboard with ever fewer keys. If I designed one, if anything it would have at least a few more modifier keys that a standard keyboard.
- anotheryou 7y ago
  Fewer keys often means more modifiers (if not going to such an extreme as here). That way you can make room for numpad, F-keys or odd keys like page-up or end etc..
  - ta09876 7y ago
    True, but unfortunately those extra modifiers are now used up for getting the original keyboard back. If you want to do, e.g. Control-Shift-Arrow to select text, you now have to use even more modifiers. I'm currently using a Razer Anansi which is a full size keyboard with extra modifier keys under the space bar. Combined with AutoHotKey and Caps Lock, I can select text with the keyboard without moving away from home row. E.g. CapsLock + Ctrl(thumb) + Shift(thumb) + L does Control-Shift-RightArrow. I do wish full size keyboards stopped wasting so much space with the space bar though, the way small keyboards do. That would put more modifier keys in the reach of your thumbs.
    - pkamb 7y ago
      Japanese keyboards have a tiny spacebar and a couple extra modifier keys for writing Japanese Characters. I have a Japanese ThinkPad external keyboard that I ordered for using the extra thumb keys, but I haven't started using it yet.
    - alpaca128 7y ago
      > If you want to do, e.g. Control-Shift-Arrow to select text, you now have to use even more modifiers. Or you're using Vim where just hitting v is all it takes. I definitely wouldn't use an even smaller board than 40%, though - that is basically the lower limit for me where I can still map all keys to positions I'm comfortable with. Lower than that and I'd need to start using multiple modifiers at once for some symbols.
    - neoberg 7y ago
      Using programmable keyboards with a firmware like QMK, you can reduce the number of modifiers needed on smaller keyboards. I use a 30%(33 keys) as my daily driver and I very rarely need 3+ button combos even though my arrow keys are in a seperate layer. For example: My "A" and "O" key acts as shift when held. My "Z" key switches to the layer where "h;,." are arrow keys and adds "CMD" as a modifier. So to select left I do "Z + A + H". I use colemak so A is right above Z. There are other tricks I do for reducing layer switches. On almost every keyboard "." and "," are next to each other but they are never used together in any human or programming language. "/" is not used that often so it doesn't make much sense to have it in the main layer of a small keyboard. So I made my "," key to output a "/" if pressed immediately after "." for typing "./". I have some other keys that act different if pressed after a certain key.
  - geoah 7y ago
    My main drivers are 40% split keyboards, which usually mean between 42 to 48 keys. Even with just one additional layer (other than the default one) you have enough keys for numbers and symbols. If you are in need of f keys or media keys maybe you need three layers in total. Takes a bit to get used to the fact that some symbols don’t need shift to be activated but rather are in a different place but it’s not too long of a process. That been said, I honestly can’t imagine how you’d write code with 28 keys. I assume this is for some sort of steno.
- ecliptik 7y ago
  While this keyboard is too small for me personally, something like a 40% or a 60% is doable since they retain the modifier keys. These keyboard sizes are great for traveling or taking somewhere with a laptop to give a "proper" keyboard experience without being overly bulky. Keyboards with support for custom firmware (https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/ https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/) can also greatly increase the functions of normally single-use keys at the cost of a steeper learning curve.
  - jethro_tell 7y ago
    yeah, I'm in the 61 key zone and it drops right into my bag as needed. I mostly grew up on laptop keyboards, so I don't have much use for a 104 key board. And I don't really use the function keys for anything, so I don't really need that row, I use vim bindings for my arrow keys and page up/down so don't need those keys. I find that I use a 61 key keyboard without any layering or special mapping. Though I do program a few macros here and there but no real need to use layers for my workflow.
- notJim 7y ago
  This one has too few keys for me, but I love the minimal cuteness of these tiny keyboards.
- cmgxyz 7y ago
  I think a certain amount of it is just a fascination with minimalism for the sake of it and clever firmware tricks, but one argument for it is ergonomics. Simply: fewer keys means less travel for your wrists and fingers, albeit (as someone mentioned) at the cost of a steeper learning curve in order to master the layer-switching and dual-use keys that you need to make such a small keyboard work. Germ, designer of the Gergo split-ergo keyboard that I currently use at home, has a good post on it here: https://blog.gboards.ca/2019/11/on-gergoplex-and-updates-lets-get.html https://blog.gboards.ca/2019/11/on-gergoplex-and-updates-let...
  - SuperPaintMan 7y ago
    I'm currently working on the ASETNIOP layout for Ginny (A 10 key keyboard), while wildly impractical next to something like GergoPlex, it's a fun exercise in insanity. https://www.gboards.ca/product/gergoplex https://www.gboards.ca/product/gergoplex https://www.gboards.ca/product/ginni https://www.gboards.ca/product/ginni
- amelius 7y ago
  I don't get why most keyboards available in stores have a numpad. I never use it, and it takes up valuable space on my desk. I wonder how many people actually use the numpad section of a keyboard on a daily basis.
  - cmgxyz 7y ago
    I use mine more now that it's right under my fingers via a layer switch ;) I use a Keyboardio Model01 split ergonomic keyboard at work.
  - michaelt 7y ago
    I use it for entering numbers, sure. Almost every fancy mechanical keyboard seems to do away with it, though, so presumably a lot of people are OK without one.
    - jethro_tell 7y ago
      you can defiantly get 104 key mech boards, and 120 key mech boards are easy to find if that's your thing. With that said, when you're paying $1+ per switch, there's a a good chunk of the market that doesn't mind saving the $40+ to have the extra keys removed. Adding keys to a cheap board is an easy way to add functionality, but once you pay to have customizable firmware, it's just as easy and cheaper to put those keys on a layer.
  - gbrown 7y ago
    I require a numpad - any time I need to enter more than a few numbers, the speed difference is unbelievable. I’d say most analytics focused people will need to do something like this at some point - that, and people who are forced to interact with spreadsheets occasionally.
    - StavrosK 7y ago
      I just set up my tilde key to change the right half of my keyboard to a numpad when held down, so I'm not missing anything. Seems like a good tradeoff.
- BubRoss 7y ago
  I don't understand it either. I built a keyboard with fewer keys and it makes programming very difficult, even if having the keyboard split apart is much more ergonomic.
  - clarry 7y ago
    I've been on 40% for a couple months now, and I don't find programming to be more difficult. I'd say it's about the same, just different.
    - neoberg 7y ago
      I've been on 30% for a year now (programming) and never going back. Was using a split 40 before.
      - clarry 7y ago
        I would love to see your layout & settings!
        neoberg 7y ago
        Hey. This is my keyboard (and the layout): https://imgur.com/gallery/GwQONlT https://imgur.com/gallery/GwQONlT And my keymap file: https://gist.github.com/burakcan/dbb292e47df2defaffd405669fec0e11 https://gist.github.com/burakcan/dbb292e47df2defaffd405669fe...
        clarry 7y ago
        Thanks. That's a very nice looking keyboard. And I like that it's wireless! It's probably not something I would use unless I can find a way to make mod-tap more reliable for me (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22112693 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22112693). But using a tap dance for ESC (or some other key) seems like an idea I could steal to free up a key for other uses. This also got me to look into quad function tap dance and I realized I could use it to bind altgr to the same key I use for alt and dash with a double tap + hold. This should work since I've never seen any program require a combo that uses alt and altgr at the same time. It seems like you don't have a mechanism for inputting ^X, how do you deal with that?
- Aloha 7y ago
  I'd like a 200 key keyboard please, will full macro functionality and programability
  - StavrosK 7y ago
    Why? I have an 80 key keyboard and even that's too many, since I have a bunch of layer-changing keys.
    - falcolas 7y ago
      Answering for myself: It's another thing I have to remember, or visually look for. I have to remember the state of the keyboard, I have to remember even more key chords, or both. I have enough cognitive load going on keeping a programming, gaming, or design stack going in my head to add another load keeping track of the status of my input device. Even should the actions become muscle memory (I own, but no longer use, a HHKB and know that muscle memory fits in), that muscle memory will fail me the moment I have to use another keyboard, causing a mental stutter as I consciously override my muscle memory (with the HHKB, that was escape and delete in particular). Moreover, I can feel my way around a keyboard and find all of the keys I could need by the clustering and relative position to the home row. Since I don't rest my hands on the keyboard while typing, this movement is not at all uncomfortable or distracting. That's why I like full keyboards, why even I could find a keyboard with more keys useful.
      - Aloha 7y ago
        Yeah, I used to have a dumb terminal on my desk, and I used the macro functionality inherent to it to semi-automate all sorts of workflows for myself, it was very very helpful.
  - mkl 7y ago
    You can have that. Just plug in another one, and write a script that opens the device exclusively and interprets the events so it doesn't send normal keystrokes.
- fossuser 7y ago
  It's fashion more than anything - and it's fun to play with something you use on a regular basis. I like the HHKB because of its default layout and how it feels in addition to the way it looks. I wouldn't use these smaller ones, but I understand why people like to play with them.
  - filoleg 7y ago
    Agreed. I feel like HHKB hits that sweet spot where it is minimalistic, but still very usable without messing with layers. If it had just a few more buttons (left Ctrl + arrow keys; though I personally don't care for left Ctrl, as I have remapped it to CapsLock, just Like I do on every keyboard), then I wouldn't even need to use the Fn key at all either.
    - fossuser 7y ago
      Part of the reason I’ve stuck with the HHKB for a few years now is that I like its default arrow key layout better than regular arrow keys. Using your right pinkie to hit function and then having the arrows right there is nice. I also use caps lock as control and it’s nice to have it as a hardware default in the HHKB too.
      - filoleg 7y ago
        Oh yeah, totally agreed, I absolutely love how the arrow keys work on HHKB. I would be lying if I said there wasn't a learning curve to it, however. First few weeks, i was definitely missing the correct keys, but once it got into my muscle memory, it became great.
  - archarios 7y ago
    It's not for me. I like fewer keys because I find that it's easier/more comfortable to use layers rather than have to do a weird reach for some key I need.
    - Waterluvian 7y ago
- ohazi 7y ago
  I think TKL/80% keyboards strike a good balance. I never really got used to using the numpad block, and it's nice to have the mouse a little bit closer. But I definitely use the navigation keys (both the arrow keys and the Ins/Del/Home/End/PgUp/PgDn block), F-keys, symbols (`~[{]}\|;:'",<.>/?), all of the modifier keys, Esc, and PrtSc.
- intortus 7y ago
  I would prefer fewer keys if I were building my first keyboard.
- somehnguy 7y ago
  I'm a fan of 60% or tenkeyless (TKL) keyboards personally. I get this weird feeling of my desk being cramped that I really don't like sometimes. A TKL keyboard solved that for me. And don't miss the numpad because I don't enter long strings of numbers much anyway.
  - mello151 7y ago
    I'm right there with you. It feels much better to me to be able to have the mouse more in-front of me than off to the side, especially when gaming. I tried to go 60%(?) with a Pok3r but I like having the arrow keys available without having to use a modifier key.
    - Kwantuum 7y ago
      65% might be the sweet spot, I have the tada68[1] because I wanted a smaller keyboard but really didn't want to lose my arrow keys and I'm very happy with it! [1] https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0267/1905/products/tada68-3_7b8289f1-70f4-4d78-9367-ab949a03aab2_1024x1024.jpg?v=1489699621 https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0267/1905/products/tada68-...
    - JimmyAustin 7y ago
      My regular home board is a GK64, which has the same layout as the Pok3r, but includes an arrow key cluster (at the cost of smaller modifiers on the right side and a 1U Rshift).
    - somehnguy 7y ago
      Just learned that there is a difference between 60% and TKL, thanks. I've been treating them as the same thing.. I just learned about the existence of smaller keyboards like a year ago, have always had one of those monstrous l33t gamer keyboards decked out with macro keys because they were the only mechanical ones at decent prices last time I was in the market. Just hated the space it took up on my desk. Right now I'm using a cheap Reddragon K552 because I too like having the arrow keys available and mechanical+backlit was non-negotiable for me. After a few months of heavy use the cheapness is starting to show itself in the key wobble though, do you have any suggestions for a decently priced alternative with better build quality?
- jrockway 7y ago
  I built a 107 key ergonomic keyboard last week. Still writing up the details, but trust me, you are not the only one that wants a lot of keys ;) This is the layout: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/f903ee27a11bcb6ea3315cf9496cf3e8 http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/f903ee27a11bcb... (The legends as shown are not what the keys actually do; when I was designing the layout I was trying very carefully to use keycaps that come with a default GMK group buy set... this was how I kept track.) I think the obsession with small keyboards is manyfold: 1) Large keyboards get in the way of the mouse. 2) People have noticed that they have to move strangely to press keys the farther away they are from home row. 1 is a stretch for most people, F5 is probably impossible. So why include them? 3) It's easier. After laying out 107 keys in CAD, waiting for an 18"x9" keyboard to print in three pieces, soldering 107 diodes, soldering 27 wires to my microcontroller, and reading the entire STM32F103 reference manual to figure out why one row didn't work... I can tell you that a 28 key keyboard seems a lot easier to build ;) 4) They use the same keyboard for home and work, and want something easier to carry around. When I switched to an Ergodox a couple years ago, I managed this for about 3 days before buying another one. To me $600 on keyboards is nothing, but to a lot of people, that's unimaginable. Personally, I see the advantages with both approaches. I don't actually have ({}) keys on my keyboard; they're on a layer and under the jkl; fingers, because that's easier to type than moving my pinky to some weird place to jab them with my weakest finger hundreds of times a day. So using a Planck or a 28 key keyboard wouldn't feel all that different to me when programming or writing prose. But what people don't consider are all the cases where you aren't touch typing but are instead issuing high-level commands to the computer. Some people frequently use mouse-driven software (CAD, video editing, etc.) and have the option to either pick a command out of the menu, or press a key on the keyboard. With a 28 key keyboard, the typing route means taking your hands off the mouse and pressing at least three keys at the same time. So you pick it out of the menu. With a full keyboard, you can use the "wrong hand" to press F12 or something, and not break your flow by navigating through 8 layers of menus. (Even with all this in mind, a split 107 key keyboard doesn't help every use case. Some games really want you to type right hand keys with your left hand, and a split keyboard makes that difficult. I don't play any of those games, though ;)
- reportgunner 7y ago
  It's not really an obsession. I grew up with using a laptop majority of the time so I simply don't expect a numpad to be there anymore. Also it's more comfortable to use the arrow keys and PgUp, PgDown without the numpad. (I'm on TKL)
- neoberg 7y ago
  Well, I use a 30% (33 keys) as my daily driver for programming. I like being able to reach every key and function without leaving the home position at all. Plus, I use my laptop outside of office a lot and I can very easily carry this keyboard around with me. It even fits into my coat's pocket.
- jedimastert 7y ago
  > I don't get the obsession with custom keyboard with ever fewer keys. IIRC, this idea was originally proposed on reddit as a joke taking this idea to the extreme.
baylessj 7y ago
I like smaller profile keyboards (I use a 60% and an ergodox clone), but I don't think I could ever use this few keys comfortably. Maybe with some creative QMK layers and triggers on the alphas, but anything less than a 40% and it's got to be more of a pain than it's worth IMO
amelius 7y ago
Not suitable for Vim users, because it lacks an Escape key.
- clarry 7y ago
  jk stands for ESC
  - SuperPaintMan 7y ago
    JK for :, UI or WE for escape. Escape never seemed so painful!
    - mkl 7y ago
      That would mean you can't type words like "quick" or "we", right? Or are you somehow detecting the keys simultaneously down and typing in staccato?
      - clarry 7y ago
        You just need a short enough timeout. Short enough that it's requiring essentially simultaneous keypress, and trying to type a word so fast would result in ew instead of we half the time.
clarry 7y ago
If anyone's using modifiers on alpha keys with QMK, let me know what sort of setup works for you. Right now I have ctrls under both pinky fingers (A and S since I'm using dvorac), and it kinda works but but I'm not 100% happy with it. Either I get unintended ctrl-modified presses while typing normal text, or a crtl-modified combo does not register because I do it too quick.
- molteanu 7y ago
  I've tried CTL_T(KC_F) for a single day only. I though it was a good idea to have all the modifiers under the home row. It doesn't seem like the index finger is a strong finger as it started to hurt after only a few hours of heavy use. Neither the other ones seem to be strong enough except (I'm hoping) the thumbs. So for now I'm mapping Ctrl to the thumb cluster (on an Ergodox) and the lesser used modifiers like Alt can be in the home row, for now. I don't seem to be having problems with the unintended presses though. Try lowering the TAPPING_TERM, maybe?!
  - clarry 7y ago
    I think lowering makes these unintended presses more likely; raising makes them less likely, but then I'm less likely to get a modifier when I want (because I type the combo too quick). I initially lowered it from the default of 200 to 150, and I've been slowly raising it back. I think it's 185 now but I might go back to 200. Only that will just make it miss more quick combos. As for index: I don't think it's so much about strength as it is about getting used to it. Mostly everyone with a normal keyboard probably uses pinky to press ctrl, and I have a hard time imagining the pinky would be stronger than index finger. But yes thumb keys work better if you have them. My Plank EZ is a bad compromise on that front. Not only does it lack a proper thumb cluster, it also has a 2U spacebar, which removes one precious thumb key. Only the middle 4 (or 3, due to 2u space) keys on the bottom row are easily presesd with thumb. The rest of the bottom row keys go virtually unused for me.
    - molteanu 7y ago
      I'm a bit slow with the keyboard so maybe that's why I don't have problems with these unintended presses. Yet. It's 200 for me, but also like 50 wpm until I manage to get back to speed. Nah, I'm palm-pressing the Ctrl key on a classic keyboard. I wrote about it here [1]. It was fine for a few years, until I got wrist pain and back problems from leaning on the right side (to reach the right Ctrl with my palm comfortably). So that article needs an update, but I kid you not, there are non-pinky users out there :) https://mihaiolteanu.me/emacs-palm-press-the-ctrl-keys/ https://mihaiolteanu.me/emacs-palm-press-the-ctrl-keys/
amelius 7y ago
How expensive is it to manufacture the PCB in 1x quantity? It's about 192x60mm, and it has 2 layers.
- nategri 7y ago
  Would expect this to clock in somewhere in the neighborhood of $80 using my preferred fab of OSHPark, but their min. order is 3 boards. So if you find two other people who want one, you get one from there for under $30 or so.
- kasbah 7y ago
  https://pcbshopper.com/?Width=192&Height=60&Units=mm&Layers=2&Quantity=1&GetPrices https://pcbshopper.com/?Width=192&Height=60&Units=mm&Layers=... ;)
  - amelius 7y ago
    That's pretty cool, thanks! :)
- StavrosK 7y ago
  You probably can't get one, but ten of them would be around $50.
  - TomVDB 7y ago
    You're in for a very pleasant surprise once you start looking at suppliers such as PCBWay.com and JLC-PCB.com!
    - StavrosK 7y ago
      That's what I was quoting, 20cm isn't cheap.
      - TomVDB 7y ago
        And yet when I fill in the size of that PCB, JLCPCB quotes $11.90 + shipping for 10 PCBs. Cheapest shipping option is $9. That's far away from $50...
azhenley 7y ago
I switched to a Drop ALT keyboard about 6 months ago which has 67 keys and I love it. Sometimes I forget how to do things like tilde which is annoying but I figure it out. I've been looking at some tiny orthlinear (like the Drop Planck) but I am too put off by having to relearn so much. Maybe in the summer when I have more time! Very interesting though.
unixhero 7y ago
Which full sized or battleship sized (even bigger) keyboard which is readily available, do you recommend?
- molteanu 7y ago
  Ergodox
- jmiserez 7y ago
  Kinesis Advantage
- petepete 7y ago
  In my opinion, for full sized keyboards the RealForce 104UW is as good as it gets. I use the 88 key variant and it's a joy to type on, is extremely well built and very heavy. https://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard/usa-topre-realforce-104uw-variable-black-on-beige-keyboard.asp https://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard/usa-topre-realforce-104u...
  - unixhero 7y ago
    Looks amazing. Thanks for that. I think. I will order it.
  - unixhero 7y ago
    For the record the best ones I could imagine are: https://youtu.be/N8FXw_QelQc https://youtu.be/N8FXw_QelQc https://youtu.be/e-5DDDd3Qzw https://youtu.be/e-5DDDd3Qzw
    - petepete 7y ago
      Haha I've never heard of a keyboard with user accounts before. Amazing but terribly impractical.
archarios 7y ago
Pffff. What is this, amateur hour? 20 keys or bust! https://www.gboards.ca/product/butter-stick-limited-edition https://www.gboards.ca/product/butter-stick-limited-edition :P
- tra3 7y ago
  Hah: > Thanks for buying one of these little guys, it’s a little wonky but I’m sure you’ll have some fun with it! (from http://docs.gboards.ca/Meet-Butter-Stick http://docs.gboards.ca/Meet-Butter-Stick) Do you actually use this?
  - archarios 7y ago
    I bought a kit and busted one of the pcb pads when trying to solder it together :'(
    - tra3 7y ago
      Bummer :( Tried youtubing for how it looks in real life usage; no luck.
      - SuperPaintMan 7y ago
        Give this a shot, and if you find the keyboard too light there's always ButterKnife (which is ending pretty quick here!) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7_HWAoZnZvs&feature=youtu.be https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7_HWAoZnZvs&feature=youtu.be https://www.gboards.ca/product/butterknife https://www.gboards.ca/product/butterknife
- m000 7y ago
  20 keys? Is this some kind of joke? Here's the real deal: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15375892 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15375892
  - cmroanirgo 7y ago
    Wow... and I thought 8 keys would be cool! That's plenty for anyone who knows their ASCII chart. Ergonomics should be through the roof as all 4 fingers on both hands would get a relatively equal workout. (With perhaps the left pinky finger representing the top bit as an exception... but that could be the 'fn' key) https://www.sciencebuddies.org/science-fair-projects/references/ascii-table https://www.sciencebuddies.org/science-fair-projects/referen...
archarios 7y ago
On the general subject, I highly recommend the Dactyl Manuform
- archarios 7y ago
  https://github.com/abstracthat/dactyl-manuform https://github.com/abstracthat/dactyl-manuform https://www.diykeyboards.com/products/cases/product/76-dactyl-manuform https://www.diykeyboards.com/products/cases/product/76-dacty...
- xupybd 7y ago
  Thank you, I'd not heard of this one. It looks amazing. I'm a huge fan of the Kinesis advantage but always wondering if there is something better. This might do it.
GordonS 7y ago
> With 10mm standoffs this is a snug fit, and it is impossible with the standoffs at full length. Reflow your solder if it climbed up the wire I've never soldered anything before, and I have no idea what this means - does anyone know of a good beginners guide to this kind of soldering?
- CarVac 7y ago
  If you add a lot of solder to a joint, it will wick and the excess will climb along metal using surface tension. You can cut through the solder when cutting the tops of the header pins off, but it's bad to stress the solder itself like this so you need to reheat it with the soldering iron so it relaxes from the physical stress of cutting.
- JKCalhoun 7y ago
  YouTube will no doubt have plenty of tutorials. But, hey, get a decent soldering iron and good solder and go to town. You'll learn quickly and will probably enjoy it. Kind of knitting for nerds.
- PyroL 7y ago
  The Pro Micro is a daughterboard for an Atmel MCU, it comes with standard pitch headers that are quite long, so you need to clip them once you solder it in. And if the solder gobs up, I recommend reflowing it (melting it down) so that you can clip the wires closer
dangus 7y ago
Tsk! PC users keep trying to reduce key counts while Apple is decades ahead with the MacBook Wheel.
- Stratoscope 7y ago
  For anyone who missed the announcement, here is the MacBook Wheel: https://www.theonion.com/apple-introduces-revolutionary-new-laptop-with-no-keybo-1819594761 https://www.theonion.com/apple-introduces-revolutionary-new-... I wouldn't say it is "decades" ahead, though. Lenovo just announced the competing ThinkPad X1 Fold: https://news.lenovo.com/pressroom/press-releases/worlds-first-foldable-pc-thinkpad-x1-fold-ushers-in-a-new-era-of-mobile-computing/ https://news.lenovo.com/pressroom/press-releases/worlds-firs...
- falcolas 7y ago
  Still too many (clockwise and counterclockwise!). OS X now supports using only one key. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202865 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202865
1MachineElf 7y ago
The layout and default keymap[0] show this is really a very QWERTY-specific design. I love small keyboards and am a Dvorak[1] fan, so tolerating such a layout will require some creative thinking. I've purchased a PCB from SpaceCat Designs[2] and am keen on creating a Dvorak-centric keymap that chords the top two rows like the gBoards[3] Georgi[4], with the bottom rows dedicated as modifiers. Probably will give it a shot using the new F10 flat key profile from SP[5]. [0] https://github.com/PyrooL/qmk_firmware/blob/master/keyboards/alpha/keymaps/default/keymap.c https://github.com/PyrooL/qmk_firmware/blob/master/keyboards... [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvorak_keyboard_layout https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvorak_keyboard_layout [2] https://spacecat.design/products/alpha28-pcbs https://spacecat.design/products/alpha28-pcbs [3] https://www.gboards.ca/ https://www.gboards.ca/ [4] https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/blob/master/keyboards/georgi/readme.md https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/blob/master/keyboards/ge... [5] https://pimpmykeyboard.com/flat-keys/ https://pimpmykeyboard.com/flat-keys/
- PyroL 7y ago
  Dvorak is one meme, Alpha is another. To use both, you must embrace the meme: https://imgur.com/a/JElSvkS https://imgur.com/a/JElSvkS
  - 1MachineElf 7y ago
    Lol. I get it, but I can't believe that's the best way to do it.
- artsyca 7y ago
  Dvorak in da house! Been down since 2003 after stumbling onto this article https://ma.tt/2003/08/on-the-dvorak-keyboard-layout/ https://ma.tt/2003/08/on-the-dvorak-keyboard-layout/ Discovered WordPress that day too and the rest is aoeuidhistory
  - 1MachineElf 7y ago
    Wow! That is much longer than me - only since 2016. I had no idea the creator of Wordpress used Dvorak too. For me the gateway was the Dymaxion map in this XKCD comic: https://xkcd.com/977/ https://xkcd.com/977/
tomc1985 7y ago
I can't see how anyone who can touch type would want to use this
Areading314 7y ago
Why stop there? Do you really need K, Q, Z, or X? H's are mostly silent and E/I are basically the same letter!
- cristoperb 7y ago
  22 keys: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stenotype https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stenotype
exikyut 7y ago
iwouldneverbeabletopracticallyusethiskeyboard ithasnospacebarorpunctuationcharacters notevenashiftkey itonlyhasanenterkey Edit: the button with the red dot on it (which I thought was Enter) is a Fn key that you use to access different "layers" - https://github.com/PyrooL/Alpha/tree/master/keymap https://github.com/PyrooL/Alpha/tree/master/keymap Nope. I prefer CISC keyboards over RISC keyboards: they require fewer discrete mnemonics to accomplish real-world goals (in this case typing a single character).
- falcolas 7y ago
  It's not quite a function key, it (appears) to be more of a mode switch, with 3-4 possible modes. And there's another "home mode" button to go back to the text lines. So, as I understand it, red->space->home
PyroL 7y ago
Hi all! I'm the one who designed Alpha. Not sure if I need to do anything to verify my identity, but in the meanwhile feel free to ask me anything about this project! :)
- SuperPaintMan 7y ago
  I just realized I still have your Alpha! I should pop that in the post. What's next on your list of weird designs?
  - PyroL 7y ago
    Send me pictures of your build, I love seeing them! I also like to post build photos that come my way on my instagram @pyro.keys (with your permission and credit of course!) As soon as Alpha wrapped up, I hit about 18 months of really hard work at school so I haven't been able to push anything out with the same polish or at the same scale as Alpha, but I have been messing around here and there. For one, I've been meaning to make a more premium version of Alpha with SMD components (onboard USB, MCU rather than a through-hole daughterboard). I worked on a REALLY prototypey split board called Meson: https://imgur.com/a/sfgTTGo https://imgur.com/a/sfgTTGo supports MX/Alps too. I just finished a whatever-form-factor-you-want ortho called Legerdemain https://imgur.com/a/yzhf8Am https://imgur.com/a/yzhf8Am yes, those are breakaway tabs so you can decide the shape of your board before building it. Hopefully I'll bring most of these to fruition soonish!
- molteanu 7y ago
  I'm not sure if you contribute directly to the development of qmk firmware also, but I must say it has been a tremendous pleasure to use. I do assume though that your project contributes to the increased visibility of the firmware and of these types of keyboards in general. I have an Ergodox. I literally dropped a tear when I've received it and realized what a piece of junk[1] this classic keyboard that I've used over the years actually is. So thank you and all you guys who make these things possible and put all your love into making typing fun again! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nruu84U0lF0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nruu84U0lF0

86 points by ecliptik 7y ago

I don't get the obsession with custom keyboard with ever fewer keys. If I designed one, if anything it would have at least a few more modifier keys that a standard keyboard.

anotheryou 7y ago
Fewer keys often means more modifiers (if not going to such an extreme as here). That way you can make room for numpad, F-keys or odd keys like page-up or end etc..
- ta09876 7y ago
  True, but unfortunately those extra modifiers are now used up for getting the original keyboard back. If you want to do, e.g. Control-Shift-Arrow to select text, you now have to use even more modifiers. I'm currently using a Razer Anansi which is a full size keyboard with extra modifier keys under the space bar. Combined with AutoHotKey and Caps Lock, I can select text with the keyboard without moving away from home row. E.g. CapsLock + Ctrl(thumb) + Shift(thumb) + L does Control-Shift-RightArrow. I do wish full size keyboards stopped wasting so much space with the space bar though, the way small keyboards do. That would put more modifier keys in the reach of your thumbs.
  - pkamb 7y ago
    Japanese keyboards have a tiny spacebar and a couple extra modifier keys for writing Japanese Characters. I have a Japanese ThinkPad external keyboard that I ordered for using the extra thumb keys, but I haven't started using it yet.
  - alpaca128 7y ago
    > If you want to do, e.g. Control-Shift-Arrow to select text, you now have to use even more modifiers. Or you're using Vim where just hitting v is all it takes. I definitely wouldn't use an even smaller board than 40%, though - that is basically the lower limit for me where I can still map all keys to positions I'm comfortable with. Lower than that and I'd need to start using multiple modifiers at once for some symbols.
  - neoberg 7y ago
    Using programmable keyboards with a firmware like QMK, you can reduce the number of modifiers needed on smaller keyboards. I use a 30%(33 keys) as my daily driver and I very rarely need 3+ button combos even though my arrow keys are in a seperate layer. For example: My "A" and "O" key acts as shift when held. My "Z" key switches to the layer where "h;,." are arrow keys and adds "CMD" as a modifier. So to select left I do "Z + A + H". I use colemak so A is right above Z. There are other tricks I do for reducing layer switches. On almost every keyboard "." and "," are next to each other but they are never used together in any human or programming language. "/" is not used that often so it doesn't make much sense to have it in the main layer of a small keyboard. So I made my "," key to output a "/" if pressed immediately after "." for typing "./". I have some other keys that act different if pressed after a certain key.
- geoah 7y ago
  My main drivers are 40% split keyboards, which usually mean between 42 to 48 keys. Even with just one additional layer (other than the default one) you have enough keys for numbers and symbols. If you are in need of f keys or media keys maybe you need three layers in total. Takes a bit to get used to the fact that some symbols don’t need shift to be activated but rather are in a different place but it’s not too long of a process. That been said, I honestly can’t imagine how you’d write code with 28 keys. I assume this is for some sort of steno.
ecliptik 7y ago
While this keyboard is too small for me personally, something like a 40% or a 60% is doable since they retain the modifier keys. These keyboard sizes are great for traveling or taking somewhere with a laptop to give a "proper" keyboard experience without being overly bulky. Keyboards with support for custom firmware (https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/ https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/) can also greatly increase the functions of normally single-use keys at the cost of a steeper learning curve.
- jethro_tell 7y ago
  yeah, I'm in the 61 key zone and it drops right into my bag as needed. I mostly grew up on laptop keyboards, so I don't have much use for a 104 key board. And I don't really use the function keys for anything, so I don't really need that row, I use vim bindings for my arrow keys and page up/down so don't need those keys. I find that I use a 61 key keyboard without any layering or special mapping. Though I do program a few macros here and there but no real need to use layers for my workflow.
notJim 7y ago
This one has too few keys for me, but I love the minimal cuteness of these tiny keyboards.
cmgxyz 7y ago
I think a certain amount of it is just a fascination with minimalism for the sake of it and clever firmware tricks, but one argument for it is ergonomics. Simply: fewer keys means less travel for your wrists and fingers, albeit (as someone mentioned) at the cost of a steeper learning curve in order to master the layer-switching and dual-use keys that you need to make such a small keyboard work. Germ, designer of the Gergo split-ergo keyboard that I currently use at home, has a good post on it here: https://blog.gboards.ca/2019/11/on-gergoplex-and-updates-lets-get.html https://blog.gboards.ca/2019/11/on-gergoplex-and-updates-let...
- SuperPaintMan 7y ago
  I'm currently working on the ASETNIOP layout for Ginny (A 10 key keyboard), while wildly impractical next to something like GergoPlex, it's a fun exercise in insanity. https://www.gboards.ca/product/gergoplex https://www.gboards.ca/product/gergoplex https://www.gboards.ca/product/ginni https://www.gboards.ca/product/ginni
amelius 7y ago
I don't get why most keyboards available in stores have a numpad. I never use it, and it takes up valuable space on my desk. I wonder how many people actually use the numpad section of a keyboard on a daily basis.
- cmgxyz 7y ago
  I use mine more now that it's right under my fingers via a layer switch ;) I use a Keyboardio Model01 split ergonomic keyboard at work.
- michaelt 7y ago
  I use it for entering numbers, sure. Almost every fancy mechanical keyboard seems to do away with it, though, so presumably a lot of people are OK without one.
  - jethro_tell 7y ago
    you can defiantly get 104 key mech boards, and 120 key mech boards are easy to find if that's your thing. With that said, when you're paying $1+ per switch, there's a a good chunk of the market that doesn't mind saving the $40+ to have the extra keys removed. Adding keys to a cheap board is an easy way to add functionality, but once you pay to have customizable firmware, it's just as easy and cheaper to put those keys on a layer.
- gbrown 7y ago
  I require a numpad - any time I need to enter more than a few numbers, the speed difference is unbelievable. I’d say most analytics focused people will need to do something like this at some point - that, and people who are forced to interact with spreadsheets occasionally.
  - StavrosK 7y ago
    I just set up my tilde key to change the right half of my keyboard to a numpad when held down, so I'm not missing anything. Seems like a good tradeoff.
BubRoss 7y ago
I don't understand it either. I built a keyboard with fewer keys and it makes programming very difficult, even if having the keyboard split apart is much more ergonomic.
- clarry 7y ago
  I've been on 40% for a couple months now, and I don't find programming to be more difficult. I'd say it's about the same, just different.
  - neoberg 7y ago
    I've been on 30% for a year now (programming) and never going back. Was using a split 40 before.
    - clarry 7y ago
      I would love to see your layout & settings!
      - neoberg 7y ago
        Hey. This is my keyboard (and the layout): https://imgur.com/gallery/GwQONlT https://imgur.com/gallery/GwQONlT And my keymap file: https://gist.github.com/burakcan/dbb292e47df2defaffd405669fec0e11 https://gist.github.com/burakcan/dbb292e47df2defaffd405669fe...
        clarry 7y ago
        Thanks. That's a very nice looking keyboard. And I like that it's wireless! It's probably not something I would use unless I can find a way to make mod-tap more reliable for me (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22112693 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22112693). But using a tap dance for ESC (or some other key) seems like an idea I could steal to free up a key for other uses. This also got me to look into quad function tap dance and I realized I could use it to bind altgr to the same key I use for alt and dash with a double tap + hold. This should work since I've never seen any program require a combo that uses alt and altgr at the same time. It seems like you don't have a mechanism for inputting ^X, how do you deal with that?
Aloha 7y ago
I'd like a 200 key keyboard please, will full macro functionality and programability
- StavrosK 7y ago
  Why? I have an 80 key keyboard and even that's too many, since I have a bunch of layer-changing keys.
  - falcolas 7y ago
    Answering for myself: It's another thing I have to remember, or visually look for. I have to remember the state of the keyboard, I have to remember even more key chords, or both. I have enough cognitive load going on keeping a programming, gaming, or design stack going in my head to add another load keeping track of the status of my input device. Even should the actions become muscle memory (I own, but no longer use, a HHKB and know that muscle memory fits in), that muscle memory will fail me the moment I have to use another keyboard, causing a mental stutter as I consciously override my muscle memory (with the HHKB, that was escape and delete in particular). Moreover, I can feel my way around a keyboard and find all of the keys I could need by the clustering and relative position to the home row. Since I don't rest my hands on the keyboard while typing, this movement is not at all uncomfortable or distracting. That's why I like full keyboards, why even I could find a keyboard with more keys useful.
    - Aloha 7y ago
      Yeah, I used to have a dumb terminal on my desk, and I used the macro functionality inherent to it to semi-automate all sorts of workflows for myself, it was very very helpful.
- mkl 7y ago
  You can have that. Just plug in another one, and write a script that opens the device exclusively and interprets the events so it doesn't send normal keystrokes.
fossuser 7y ago
It's fashion more than anything - and it's fun to play with something you use on a regular basis. I like the HHKB because of its default layout and how it feels in addition to the way it looks. I wouldn't use these smaller ones, but I understand why people like to play with them.
- filoleg 7y ago
  Agreed. I feel like HHKB hits that sweet spot where it is minimalistic, but still very usable without messing with layers. If it had just a few more buttons (left Ctrl + arrow keys; though I personally don't care for left Ctrl, as I have remapped it to CapsLock, just Like I do on every keyboard), then I wouldn't even need to use the Fn key at all either.
  - fossuser 7y ago
    Part of the reason I’ve stuck with the HHKB for a few years now is that I like its default arrow key layout better than regular arrow keys. Using your right pinkie to hit function and then having the arrows right there is nice. I also use caps lock as control and it’s nice to have it as a hardware default in the HHKB too.
    - filoleg 7y ago
      Oh yeah, totally agreed, I absolutely love how the arrow keys work on HHKB. I would be lying if I said there wasn't a learning curve to it, however. First few weeks, i was definitely missing the correct keys, but once it got into my muscle memory, it became great.
- archarios 7y ago
  It's not for me. I like fewer keys because I find that it's easier/more comfortable to use layers rather than have to do a weird reach for some key I need.
  - Waterluvian 7y ago
ohazi 7y ago
I think TKL/80% keyboards strike a good balance. I never really got used to using the numpad block, and it's nice to have the mouse a little bit closer. But I definitely use the navigation keys (both the arrow keys and the Ins/Del/Home/End/PgUp/PgDn block), F-keys, symbols (`~[{]}\|;:'",<.>/?), all of the modifier keys, Esc, and PrtSc.
intortus 7y ago
I would prefer fewer keys if I were building my first keyboard.
somehnguy 7y ago
I'm a fan of 60% or tenkeyless (TKL) keyboards personally. I get this weird feeling of my desk being cramped that I really don't like sometimes. A TKL keyboard solved that for me. And don't miss the numpad because I don't enter long strings of numbers much anyway.
- mello151 7y ago
  I'm right there with you. It feels much better to me to be able to have the mouse more in-front of me than off to the side, especially when gaming. I tried to go 60%(?) with a Pok3r but I like having the arrow keys available without having to use a modifier key.
  - Kwantuum 7y ago
    65% might be the sweet spot, I have the tada68[1] because I wanted a smaller keyboard but really didn't want to lose my arrow keys and I'm very happy with it! [1] https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0267/1905/products/tada68-3_7b8289f1-70f4-4d78-9367-ab949a03aab2_1024x1024.jpg?v=1489699621 https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0267/1905/products/tada68-...
  - JimmyAustin 7y ago
    My regular home board is a GK64, which has the same layout as the Pok3r, but includes an arrow key cluster (at the cost of smaller modifiers on the right side and a 1U Rshift).
  - somehnguy 7y ago
    Just learned that there is a difference between 60% and TKL, thanks. I've been treating them as the same thing.. I just learned about the existence of smaller keyboards like a year ago, have always had one of those monstrous l33t gamer keyboards decked out with macro keys because they were the only mechanical ones at decent prices last time I was in the market. Just hated the space it took up on my desk. Right now I'm using a cheap Reddragon K552 because I too like having the arrow keys available and mechanical+backlit was non-negotiable for me. After a few months of heavy use the cheapness is starting to show itself in the key wobble though, do you have any suggestions for a decently priced alternative with better build quality?
jrockway 7y ago
I built a 107 key ergonomic keyboard last week. Still writing up the details, but trust me, you are not the only one that wants a lot of keys ;) This is the layout: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/f903ee27a11bcb6ea3315cf9496cf3e8 http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/f903ee27a11bcb... (The legends as shown are not what the keys actually do; when I was designing the layout I was trying very carefully to use keycaps that come with a default GMK group buy set... this was how I kept track.) I think the obsession with small keyboards is manyfold: 1) Large keyboards get in the way of the mouse. 2) People have noticed that they have to move strangely to press keys the farther away they are from home row. 1 is a stretch for most people, F5 is probably impossible. So why include them? 3) It's easier. After laying out 107 keys in CAD, waiting for an 18"x9" keyboard to print in three pieces, soldering 107 diodes, soldering 27 wires to my microcontroller, and reading the entire STM32F103 reference manual to figure out why one row didn't work... I can tell you that a 28 key keyboard seems a lot easier to build ;) 4) They use the same keyboard for home and work, and want something easier to carry around. When I switched to an Ergodox a couple years ago, I managed this for about 3 days before buying another one. To me $600 on keyboards is nothing, but to a lot of people, that's unimaginable. Personally, I see the advantages with both approaches. I don't actually have ({}) keys on my keyboard; they're on a layer and under the jkl; fingers, because that's easier to type than moving my pinky to some weird place to jab them with my weakest finger hundreds of times a day. So using a Planck or a 28 key keyboard wouldn't feel all that different to me when programming or writing prose. But what people don't consider are all the cases where you aren't touch typing but are instead issuing high-level commands to the computer. Some people frequently use mouse-driven software (CAD, video editing, etc.) and have the option to either pick a command out of the menu, or press a key on the keyboard. With a 28 key keyboard, the typing route means taking your hands off the mouse and pressing at least three keys at the same time. So you pick it out of the menu. With a full keyboard, you can use the "wrong hand" to press F12 or something, and not break your flow by navigating through 8 layers of menus. (Even with all this in mind, a split 107 key keyboard doesn't help every use case. Some games really want you to type right hand keys with your left hand, and a split keyboard makes that difficult. I don't play any of those games, though ;)
reportgunner 7y ago
It's not really an obsession. I grew up with using a laptop majority of the time so I simply don't expect a numpad to be there anymore. Also it's more comfortable to use the arrow keys and PgUp, PgDown without the numpad. (I'm on TKL)
neoberg 7y ago
Well, I use a 30% (33 keys) as my daily driver for programming. I like being able to reach every key and function without leaving the home position at all. Plus, I use my laptop outside of office a lot and I can very easily carry this keyboard around with me. It even fits into my coat's pocket.
jedimastert 7y ago
> I don't get the obsession with custom keyboard with ever fewer keys. IIRC, this idea was originally proposed on reddit as a joke taking this idea to the extreme.

baylessj 7y ago

I like smaller profile keyboards (I use a 60% and an ergodox clone), but I don't think I could ever use this few keys comfortably. Maybe with some creative QMK layers and triggers on the alphas, but anything less than a 40% and it's got to be more of a pain than it's worth IMO

amelius 7y ago

Not suitable for Vim users, because it lacks an Escape key.

clarry 7y ago
jk stands for ESC
- SuperPaintMan 7y ago
  JK for :, UI or WE for escape. Escape never seemed so painful!
  - mkl 7y ago
    That would mean you can't type words like "quick" or "we", right? Or are you somehow detecting the keys simultaneously down and typing in staccato?
    - clarry 7y ago
      You just need a short enough timeout. Short enough that it's requiring essentially simultaneous keypress, and trying to type a word so fast would result in ew instead of we half the time.

clarry 7y ago

If anyone's using modifiers on alpha keys with QMK, let me know what sort of setup works for you. Right now I have ctrls under both pinky fingers (A and S since I'm using dvorac), and it kinda works but but I'm not 100% happy with it. Either I get unintended ctrl-modified presses while typing normal text, or a crtl-modified combo does not register because I do it too quick.

molteanu 7y ago
I've tried CTL_T(KC_F) for a single day only. I though it was a good idea to have all the modifiers under the home row. It doesn't seem like the index finger is a strong finger as it started to hurt after only a few hours of heavy use. Neither the other ones seem to be strong enough except (I'm hoping) the thumbs. So for now I'm mapping Ctrl to the thumb cluster (on an Ergodox) and the lesser used modifiers like Alt can be in the home row, for now. I don't seem to be having problems with the unintended presses though. Try lowering the TAPPING_TERM, maybe?!
- clarry 7y ago
  I think lowering makes these unintended presses more likely; raising makes them less likely, but then I'm less likely to get a modifier when I want (because I type the combo too quick). I initially lowered it from the default of 200 to 150, and I've been slowly raising it back. I think it's 185 now but I might go back to 200. Only that will just make it miss more quick combos. As for index: I don't think it's so much about strength as it is about getting used to it. Mostly everyone with a normal keyboard probably uses pinky to press ctrl, and I have a hard time imagining the pinky would be stronger than index finger. But yes thumb keys work better if you have them. My Plank EZ is a bad compromise on that front. Not only does it lack a proper thumb cluster, it also has a 2U spacebar, which removes one precious thumb key. Only the middle 4 (or 3, due to 2u space) keys on the bottom row are easily presesd with thumb. The rest of the bottom row keys go virtually unused for me.
  - molteanu 7y ago
    I'm a bit slow with the keyboard so maybe that's why I don't have problems with these unintended presses. Yet. It's 200 for me, but also like 50 wpm until I manage to get back to speed. Nah, I'm palm-pressing the Ctrl key on a classic keyboard. I wrote about it here [1]. It was fine for a few years, until I got wrist pain and back problems from leaning on the right side (to reach the right Ctrl with my palm comfortably). So that article needs an update, but I kid you not, there are non-pinky users out there :) https://mihaiolteanu.me/emacs-palm-press-the-ctrl-keys/ https://mihaiolteanu.me/emacs-palm-press-the-ctrl-keys/

amelius 7y ago

How expensive is it to manufacture the PCB in 1x quantity? It's about 192x60mm, and it has 2 layers.

nategri 7y ago
Would expect this to clock in somewhere in the neighborhood of $80 using my preferred fab of OSHPark, but their min. order is 3 boards. So if you find two other people who want one, you get one from there for under $30 or so.
kasbah 7y ago
https://pcbshopper.com/?Width=192&Height=60&Units=mm&Layers=2&Quantity=1&GetPrices https://pcbshopper.com/?Width=192&Height=60&Units=mm&Layers=... ;)
- amelius 7y ago
  That's pretty cool, thanks! :)
StavrosK 7y ago
You probably can't get one, but ten of them would be around $50.
- TomVDB 7y ago
  You're in for a very pleasant surprise once you start looking at suppliers such as PCBWay.com and JLC-PCB.com!
  - StavrosK 7y ago
    That's what I was quoting, 20cm isn't cheap.
    - TomVDB 7y ago
      And yet when I fill in the size of that PCB, JLCPCB quotes $11.90 + shipping for 10 PCBs. Cheapest shipping option is $9. That's far away from $50...

azhenley 7y ago

I switched to a Drop ALT keyboard about 6 months ago which has 67 keys and I love it. Sometimes I forget how to do things like tilde which is annoying but I figure it out. I've been looking at some tiny orthlinear (like the Drop Planck) but I am too put off by having to relearn so much. Maybe in the summer when I have more time! Very interesting though.

unixhero 7y ago

Which full sized or battleship sized (even bigger) keyboard which is readily available, do you recommend?

molteanu 7y ago
Ergodox
jmiserez 7y ago
Kinesis Advantage
petepete 7y ago
In my opinion, for full sized keyboards the RealForce 104UW is as good as it gets. I use the 88 key variant and it's a joy to type on, is extremely well built and very heavy. https://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard/usa-topre-realforce-104uw-variable-black-on-beige-keyboard.asp https://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard/usa-topre-realforce-104u...
- unixhero 7y ago
  Looks amazing. Thanks for that. I think. I will order it.
- unixhero 7y ago
  For the record the best ones I could imagine are: https://youtu.be/N8FXw_QelQc https://youtu.be/N8FXw_QelQc https://youtu.be/e-5DDDd3Qzw https://youtu.be/e-5DDDd3Qzw
  - petepete 7y ago
    Haha I've never heard of a keyboard with user accounts before. Amazing but terribly impractical.

archarios 7y ago

Pffff. What is this, amateur hour? 20 keys or bust! https://www.gboards.ca/product/butter-stick-limited-edition https://www.gboards.ca/product/butter-stick-limited-edition :P

tra3 7y ago
Hah: > Thanks for buying one of these little guys, it’s a little wonky but I’m sure you’ll have some fun with it! (from http://docs.gboards.ca/Meet-Butter-Stick http://docs.gboards.ca/Meet-Butter-Stick) Do you actually use this?
- archarios 7y ago
  I bought a kit and busted one of the pcb pads when trying to solder it together :'(
  - tra3 7y ago
    Bummer :( Tried youtubing for how it looks in real life usage; no luck.
    - SuperPaintMan 7y ago
      Give this a shot, and if you find the keyboard too light there's always ButterKnife (which is ending pretty quick here!) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7_HWAoZnZvs&feature=youtu.be https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7_HWAoZnZvs&feature=youtu.be https://www.gboards.ca/product/butterknife https://www.gboards.ca/product/butterknife
m000 7y ago
20 keys? Is this some kind of joke? Here's the real deal: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15375892 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15375892
- cmroanirgo 7y ago
  Wow... and I thought 8 keys would be cool! That's plenty for anyone who knows their ASCII chart. Ergonomics should be through the roof as all 4 fingers on both hands would get a relatively equal workout. (With perhaps the left pinky finger representing the top bit as an exception... but that could be the 'fn' key) https://www.sciencebuddies.org/science-fair-projects/references/ascii-table https://www.sciencebuddies.org/science-fair-projects/referen...

archarios 7y ago

On the general subject, I highly recommend the Dactyl Manuform

archarios 7y ago
https://github.com/abstracthat/dactyl-manuform https://github.com/abstracthat/dactyl-manuform https://www.diykeyboards.com/products/cases/product/76-dactyl-manuform https://www.diykeyboards.com/products/cases/product/76-dacty...
xupybd 7y ago
Thank you, I'd not heard of this one. It looks amazing. I'm a huge fan of the Kinesis advantage but always wondering if there is something better. This might do it.

GordonS 7y ago

> With 10mm standoffs this is a snug fit, and it is impossible with the standoffs at full length. Reflow your solder if it climbed up the wire I've never soldered anything before, and I have no idea what this means - does anyone know of a good beginners guide to this kind of soldering?

CarVac 7y ago
If you add a lot of solder to a joint, it will wick and the excess will climb along metal using surface tension. You can cut through the solder when cutting the tops of the header pins off, but it's bad to stress the solder itself like this so you need to reheat it with the soldering iron so it relaxes from the physical stress of cutting.
JKCalhoun 7y ago
YouTube will no doubt have plenty of tutorials. But, hey, get a decent soldering iron and good solder and go to town. You'll learn quickly and will probably enjoy it. Kind of knitting for nerds.
PyroL 7y ago
The Pro Micro is a daughterboard for an Atmel MCU, it comes with standard pitch headers that are quite long, so you need to clip them once you solder it in. And if the solder gobs up, I recommend reflowing it (melting it down) so that you can clip the wires closer

dangus 7y ago

Tsk! PC users keep trying to reduce key counts while Apple is decades ahead with the MacBook Wheel.

Stratoscope 7y ago
For anyone who missed the announcement, here is the MacBook Wheel: https://www.theonion.com/apple-introduces-revolutionary-new-laptop-with-no-keybo-1819594761 https://www.theonion.com/apple-introduces-revolutionary-new-... I wouldn't say it is "decades" ahead, though. Lenovo just announced the competing ThinkPad X1 Fold: https://news.lenovo.com/pressroom/press-releases/worlds-first-foldable-pc-thinkpad-x1-fold-ushers-in-a-new-era-of-mobile-computing/ https://news.lenovo.com/pressroom/press-releases/worlds-firs...
falcolas 7y ago
Still too many (clockwise and counterclockwise!). OS X now supports using only one key. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202865 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202865

1MachineElf 7y ago

The layout and default keymap[0] show this is really a very QWERTY-specific design. I love small keyboards and am a Dvorak[1] fan, so tolerating such a layout will require some creative thinking. I've purchased a PCB from SpaceCat Designs[2] and am keen on creating a Dvorak-centric keymap that chords the top two rows like the gBoards[3] Georgi[4], with the bottom rows dedicated as modifiers. Probably will give it a shot using the new F10 flat key profile from SP[5]. [0] https://github.com/PyrooL/qmk_firmware/blob/master/keyboards/alpha/keymaps/default/keymap.c https://github.com/PyrooL/qmk_firmware/blob/master/keyboards... [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvorak_keyboard_layout https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvorak_keyboard_layout [2] https://spacecat.design/products/alpha28-pcbs https://spacecat.design/products/alpha28-pcbs [3] https://www.gboards.ca/ https://www.gboards.ca/ [4] https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/blob/master/keyboards/georgi/readme.md https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/blob/master/keyboards/ge... [5] https://pimpmykeyboard.com/flat-keys/ https://pimpmykeyboard.com/flat-keys/

PyroL 7y ago
Dvorak is one meme, Alpha is another. To use both, you must embrace the meme: https://imgur.com/a/JElSvkS https://imgur.com/a/JElSvkS
- 1MachineElf 7y ago
  Lol. I get it, but I can't believe that's the best way to do it.
artsyca 7y ago
Dvorak in da house! Been down since 2003 after stumbling onto this article https://ma.tt/2003/08/on-the-dvorak-keyboard-layout/ https://ma.tt/2003/08/on-the-dvorak-keyboard-layout/ Discovered WordPress that day too and the rest is aoeuidhistory
- 1MachineElf 7y ago
  Wow! That is much longer than me - only since 2016. I had no idea the creator of Wordpress used Dvorak too. For me the gateway was the Dymaxion map in this XKCD comic: https://xkcd.com/977/ https://xkcd.com/977/

tomc1985 7y ago

I can't see how anyone who can touch type would want to use this

Areading314 7y ago

Why stop there? Do you really need K, Q, Z, or X? H's are mostly silent and E/I are basically the same letter!

cristoperb 7y ago
22 keys: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stenotype https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stenotype

exikyut 7y ago

iwouldneverbeabletopracticallyusethiskeyboard ithasnospacebarorpunctuationcharacters notevenashiftkey itonlyhasanenterkey Edit: the button with the red dot on it (which I thought was Enter) is a Fn key that you use to access different "layers" - https://github.com/PyrooL/Alpha/tree/master/keymap https://github.com/PyrooL/Alpha/tree/master/keymap Nope. I prefer CISC keyboards over RISC keyboards: they require fewer discrete mnemonics to accomplish real-world goals (in this case typing a single character).

falcolas 7y ago
It's not quite a function key, it (appears) to be more of a mode switch, with 3-4 possible modes. And there's another "home mode" button to go back to the text lines. So, as I understand it, red->space->home

PyroL 7y ago

Hi all! I'm the one who designed Alpha. Not sure if I need to do anything to verify my identity, but in the meanwhile feel free to ask me anything about this project! :)

SuperPaintMan 7y ago
I just realized I still have your Alpha! I should pop that in the post. What's next on your list of weird designs?
- PyroL 7y ago
  Send me pictures of your build, I love seeing them! I also like to post build photos that come my way on my instagram @pyro.keys (with your permission and credit of course!) As soon as Alpha wrapped up, I hit about 18 months of really hard work at school so I haven't been able to push anything out with the same polish or at the same scale as Alpha, but I have been messing around here and there. For one, I've been meaning to make a more premium version of Alpha with SMD components (onboard USB, MCU rather than a through-hole daughterboard). I worked on a REALLY prototypey split board called Meson: https://imgur.com/a/sfgTTGo https://imgur.com/a/sfgTTGo supports MX/Alps too. I just finished a whatever-form-factor-you-want ortho called Legerdemain https://imgur.com/a/yzhf8Am https://imgur.com/a/yzhf8Am yes, those are breakaway tabs so you can decide the shape of your board before building it. Hopefully I'll bring most of these to fruition soonish!
molteanu 7y ago
I'm not sure if you contribute directly to the development of qmk firmware also, but I must say it has been a tremendous pleasure to use. I do assume though that your project contributes to the increased visibility of the firmware and of these types of keyboards in general. I have an Ergodox. I literally dropped a tear when I've received it and realized what a piece of junk[1] this classic keyboard that I've used over the years actually is. So thank you and all you guys who make these things possible and put all your love into making typing fun again! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nruu84U0lF0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nruu84U0lF0