7 ms·

The thing is it's not just religion. There's been a commensurate, if not larger, decline in participation in "civic organizations" as well. Sports leagues, fra

The thing is it's not just religion. There's been a commensurate, if not larger, decline in participation in "civic organizations" as well. Sports leagues, fraternal societies (like the Elks or Masons), parent-teach organizations, volunteer organizations (like the Boy Scouts or Red Cross), and labor unions have all seen their memberships steadily decline for the better part of the last 50 years.[1] Doubly so among the youngest generations. Beyond that, in general we have much fewer close social ties than we used to. Marriage rates have plummeted[2], which means many fewer people have a spouse. Surveys show that Americans have only about half the number of close friends as they did a generation ago.[3] The sizable majority of Americans don't even know their neighbors.[4] And of course birth rates have plummeted, which means that the number of siblings the average person has, and eventually aunts, uncles and cousins are all decreasing. In general the central sociological fact of the modern-era is the unprecedented degree of social atomization that most of us now face. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_Alone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_Alone [2] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/09/14/as-u-s-marriage-rate-hovers-at-50-education-gap-in-marital-status-widens/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/09/14/as-u-s-marr... [3] https://www.barna.com/research/friends-loneliness/ https://www.barna.com/research/friends-loneliness/ [4] https://www.studyfinds.org/sign-of-the-times-75-of-adults-arent-friends-with-any-of-their-neighbors/ https://www.studyfinds.org/sign-of-the-times-75-of-adults-ar...

pixl97 7y ago
Our social connections have been replaced with commercial ones. Where at one point we socialized to relieve boredom and need, now we have never ending entertainment and those that would capitalize on selling it to us over everything else.
- nvahalik 7y ago
  I want to upvote this 10x.
  - NotSammyHagar 7y ago
    Every generation would always talk about the destructive increase in entertainment in their time. My grandfather said his parents told him he listened to the radio too much when he was a kid.
    - ericdykstra 7y ago
      Your great-grandparents were right, it's just hard to imagine listening to radio with family being "destructive", when today people have less friends than ever and are literally choosing Netflix, video games, and pornography over having a social life.
      - AgentOrange1234 7y ago
        You make it sound like a bad thing. Have you met people? Do you really want to spend more of your time with them? :)
        arbitrary_name 7y ago
        Yes. And yes. I'll do anything to hang out with people, especially the ones I like. You sound like you're making an excuse for a lack of friends by implying there is no one worth being friends with? Perhaps I've inferred too much, I sure hope so...
        howlin 7y ago
        To be fair to the poster, virtually anyone you meet in real life will be far less interesting than chatting with someone in a specialized forum like hacker news.
        Plyphon_ 7y ago
        That's such a narrow view on what value people can offer you, it saddens me.
- smabie 7y ago
  Is religion really that different?
- DoreenMichele 7y ago
  And, yet, here you are talking with other people all over the world for free. Someone older than me, of the hippie generation, once said to me "There were like three TV channels and they went off the air at 10pm. If you were still awake after that, there was nothing to do but sex and drugs." I strongly suspect the 24/7 availability of free entertainment, live online discussion, etc is a large contributing factor to the trend towards celibacy. I don't think this is a bad thing. And it's being achieved without some preacher putting the fear of God in you and telling you impure thoughts will get you an eternity in hell.
  - tmccrary55 7y ago
    Free but monetized.
    - DoreenMichele 7y ago
      Very well monetized such that there are paid moderators. I'm very much okay with this.
      - Nextgrid 7y ago
        I'm assuming you are talking about HN. I'd be very happy if this was also the case for other networks. Feels like a competent moderation team (not necessarily paid; forums in the good old days had people competing to be voluntary moderators) would make mainstream social media a lot more enjoyable.
        DoreenMichele 7y ago
        Feels like a competent moderation team (not necessarily paid Moderation seems to generally be better when it is paid. I've done plenty of moderating in my time. I currently am the moderator or a number of things. I'm generally a good moderator. I'm also dirt poor and I resent the fact that I do so many things for free for people without it coming back to me and my extreme poverty actively interferes at times with my ability to tend to unpaid obligations while I try to eke out a living doing something else for a bit, etc. I generally have a pretty good track record of doing things for free that I'm willing to do for free and not dumping on other people about how they aren't paying me to do this, but I have seen plenty of moderators over the years have a snit fit about how the membership is ungrateful and they do this out of the goodness of their heart and You People need to behave better, appreciate us more, and quit being so much drama since it's all free, dagnabbit. I think if you really, truly value something, you should be okay with people being able to do that work and actually somehow pay their own bills because of it. Reddit is sort of a weird grey zone where Reddit actually makes money and has paid staff, but most moderation on Reddit is unpaid. And I run a few Reddits and I'm still trying to figure out what I think of that weird beast. But, generally speaking, as someone who has done tons of volunteer work in my life and has also spent a lot of years very poor where all that "goodness of my heart" crapola didn't do a fucking thing for me when I needed some "goodness" from someone else, I think if you resent the service you use for free somehow making money and actually paying its staff, (trying to think of a more PC way to end this sentence and failing -- suffice it to say, I don't have a high opinion of such people).
- claudiawerner 7y ago
  >Our social connections have been replaced with commercial ones. This one phrase combines Marx's notion of alienation and commodity fetishism into one - it's odd how relevant Marx's sociological analysis is today.

pixl97 7y ago

Our social connections have been replaced with commercial ones. Where at one point we socialized to relieve boredom and need, now we have never ending entertainment and those that would capitalize on selling it to us over everything else.

nvahalik 7y ago
I want to upvote this 10x.
- NotSammyHagar 7y ago
  Every generation would always talk about the destructive increase in entertainment in their time. My grandfather said his parents told him he listened to the radio too much when he was a kid.
  - ericdykstra 7y ago
    Your great-grandparents were right, it's just hard to imagine listening to radio with family being "destructive", when today people have less friends than ever and are literally choosing Netflix, video games, and pornography over having a social life.
    - AgentOrange1234 7y ago
      You make it sound like a bad thing. Have you met people? Do you really want to spend more of your time with them? :)
      - arbitrary_name 7y ago
        Yes. And yes. I'll do anything to hang out with people, especially the ones I like. You sound like you're making an excuse for a lack of friends by implying there is no one worth being friends with? Perhaps I've inferred too much, I sure hope so...
        howlin 7y ago
        To be fair to the poster, virtually anyone you meet in real life will be far less interesting than chatting with someone in a specialized forum like hacker news.
        Plyphon_ 7y ago
        That's such a narrow view on what value people can offer you, it saddens me.
smabie 7y ago
Is religion really that different?
DoreenMichele 7y ago
And, yet, here you are talking with other people all over the world for free. Someone older than me, of the hippie generation, once said to me "There were like three TV channels and they went off the air at 10pm. If you were still awake after that, there was nothing to do but sex and drugs." I strongly suspect the 24/7 availability of free entertainment, live online discussion, etc is a large contributing factor to the trend towards celibacy. I don't think this is a bad thing. And it's being achieved without some preacher putting the fear of God in you and telling you impure thoughts will get you an eternity in hell.
- tmccrary55 7y ago
  Free but monetized.
  - DoreenMichele 7y ago
    Very well monetized such that there are paid moderators. I'm very much okay with this.
    - Nextgrid 7y ago
      I'm assuming you are talking about HN. I'd be very happy if this was also the case for other networks. Feels like a competent moderation team (not necessarily paid; forums in the good old days had people competing to be voluntary moderators) would make mainstream social media a lot more enjoyable.
      - DoreenMichele 7y ago
        Feels like a competent moderation team (not necessarily paid Moderation seems to generally be better when it is paid. I've done plenty of moderating in my time. I currently am the moderator or a number of things. I'm generally a good moderator. I'm also dirt poor and I resent the fact that I do so many things for free for people without it coming back to me and my extreme poverty actively interferes at times with my ability to tend to unpaid obligations while I try to eke out a living doing something else for a bit, etc. I generally have a pretty good track record of doing things for free that I'm willing to do for free and not dumping on other people about how they aren't paying me to do this, but I have seen plenty of moderators over the years have a snit fit about how the membership is ungrateful and they do this out of the goodness of their heart and You People need to behave better, appreciate us more, and quit being so much drama since it's all free, dagnabbit. I think if you really, truly value something, you should be okay with people being able to do that work and actually somehow pay their own bills because of it. Reddit is sort of a weird grey zone where Reddit actually makes money and has paid staff, but most moderation on Reddit is unpaid. And I run a few Reddits and I'm still trying to figure out what I think of that weird beast. But, generally speaking, as someone who has done tons of volunteer work in my life and has also spent a lot of years very poor where all that "goodness of my heart" crapola didn't do a fucking thing for me when I needed some "goodness" from someone else, I think if you resent the service you use for free somehow making money and actually paying its staff, (trying to think of a more PC way to end this sentence and failing -- suffice it to say, I don't have a high opinion of such people).
claudiawerner 7y ago
>Our social connections have been replaced with commercial ones. This one phrase combines Marx's notion of alienation and commodity fetishism into one - it's odd how relevant Marx's sociological analysis is today.