7 ms·

Short Term Rental (2018)

37 points by luu 7y ago

cm2012 7y ago
Wonder what the current status is.
- TaylorAlexander 7y ago
  The Airbnb listing is still active, but it only has reviews from September 2018. Apparently lots of people stayed that month, and none since? Or subsequent reviews were removed after the rental owner got caught...
  - jonpurdy 7y ago
    Looks like there is no availability at all from now until at least a few months in the future, so most likely the owner blocked off all the time to lay low for awhile.
matchbok 7y ago
As a facilitator to these illegal dealings, Airbnb should be held responsible. It has turned from a quaint little company for bed and breakfasts to a massive illegal hotel and scam website. At the very best they are a huge operation to transfer wealth to the owner class at the expense of everyone else.
- nouveaux 7y ago
  At the same time, not allowing an owner to rent is transferring wealth to corporate hoteliers. Why is that better? I rather transfer wealth to middle class and upper middle class than give it to the 1%. Does anyone know why its so hard to tax Airbnb? Airbnb should be responsible for collecting tax on behalf of the state and county. Tax them and pass it on to the little guys.
  - ohazi 7y ago
    > At the same time, not allowing an owner to rent is transferring wealth to corporate hoteliers. If you truly want this level of freedom, you need to not buy a condo or a property with a HOA. Additional rules for owners makes sense for condos and buildings with obviously shared common infrastructure and resources. I think it makes less sense for detached housing. Apparently a large number of developers building new houses at the subdivision-scale (not in California, lol) are now putting in HOAs automatically. It's going to be a pretty shitty situation in 30 years.
    - thisisastopsign 7y ago
      I have a rental property that is in an HOA and I rent it out. What are you inferring?
      - tingletech 7y ago
        I'm not sure the exact point of the grand parent post -- but for a multi-unit building with the units titled as condos (which would usually have an owner's association) the rules for getting conventional financing in the US (I'm spacing on what those are called) dictate a certain percentage of the units must be owner occupied, lest the loans are not re-sellable in the secondary mortgage markets. Condo HOAs will thus sometimes try to pass rules or amend bylaws to establish rental restrictions of various sorts -- most commonly setting a minimum lease term, but sometimes trying to set percentages of units that must be owner occupied, limiting the numbers of units that can be owned by a single owner, or establishing a time frame a unit must be owner occupied before it can be rented. My understanding is that most of the new apartment buildings they are building around me in Oakland and trying to rent out are "pre-converted" or already titled as condos -- but as the investors are renting them out generally there is no HOA to speak of as there is one owner. But, should market conditions change, common areas and separate titles are already established so less paperwork would be required to sell off the units.
      - ohazi 7y ago
        Is your rental property a house or a condo? I'm asserting that buying a detached house that falls under an HOA is something that should generally be avoided. With a house, there are rarely shared resources that actually need to be managed so any potential benefit is minimal at best, and bad HOAs can be a nightmare, so the risk is high. I'm also lamenting the fact that developers building new neighborhoods of detached houses (e.g. in places like Austin) are apparently putting almost all of them under HOAs, perhaps because of some legal meme that doing so somehow reduces risk for the developer, or increases sale prices. I think this is an unfortunate trend.
kp98 7y ago
As someone currently going through Airbnb hell, I’m really annoyed because on one hand a short term rental market is so necessary for so many people. On the other hand I despise Airbnb for enabling the following scenario: I rent an Airbnb in the Toronto suburbs, there is WiFi advertised, as a remote dev my livelihood depended on it. I get to the place, WiFi didn’t work, and there was zero bedding on my bed. I contact the host and he tells me he doesn’t speak English well (Chinese) but that I can just try fooling with the router. I do so. Another guest then proceeds to blame me for the broken WiFi and threatens my life (I literally have a picture of a note left addressing me on the router). I then call Airbnb saying I don’t feel safe. Airbnb legitimately sides with the host to my total shock. I sit there thinking what the hell and just eat the loss and rent the next place. Airbnb is so supply constricted that it virtually always sides with the host. Compare that to NYC housing laws which are some of the most tenant friendly I could’ve written myself. So Airbnb screws individuals through various policies degrading consumer protection. The world decided zero interest rates were good, so Chinese investors like the aforementioned buy places outright with minimal capital down and rent them out to local Canadians at a premium, driving rent and prices up. The result is that domestic markets have been brutalized and the rich have won in the zero rate economy, especially on housing. I’ve had 8 Airbnb experiences and 4 turned out awful, the other four were fantastic. I used to think the company was amazing for building this new market now I’m completely jaded and feel bad for hoping this company rots
- juskrey 7y ago
  After our recent month-long rent in US the host tried to bill us for some minor (and likely preexisting, anyways, who actually even tries to notice things like cooking pot wear on check in?) wear and tear in total for $1000 or so. Was a bit shocking since we are using the service for years and are far from destructive tenants. Airbnb sided with us and cancelled their request. What else to tell? Apparently Airbnb does not like to lose its own money, but also does not allow to extract unjustified value like that.
  - modo_mario 7y ago
    Even if you'd get some wear on your stupidly expensive handmade Japanese chef knife and overpriced cast iron pan and whatnot...why leave that in the place you rent out full time? There's no way you get to 1000$ wear easily on multiple small things unless you have someone's making an effort to be trash or breaks a large appliance in which case it's provable and Airbnb probably knows it. The story of someone getting scammed out of a lot of money like that can spread.
supernova87a 7y ago
I don't put the blame at the homeowner/absentee landlord, the building, or even Airbnb. All these problems can be traced to city governments that fail/refuse to respond to the changing dynamic of housing demand, and incentivize homeowners to buy and rent out their properties. If cities managed/governed their property regulations correctly, we wouldn't be facing a situation where development is so constrained, existing property is so valuable (and appreciating), and short term capacity is so lacking. I don't blame people for operating within the incentives that have been put up for them. It's unavoidable. You think each individual Airbnb owner is responsible for this situation? Despite this article being from 2018, the problem of course continues, even has gotten worse. And cities (well, most anyway) do nothing to manage their growth in conjunction with the unstoppable demand that they will have to eventually acknowledge.
- fxtentacle 7y ago
  I blame Airbnb and I suggest we hold them accountable because they are the ones enabling people to rent out short-term in areas that were planned as residential. Hotels are properly regulated, but AirBnb is profiting off circumventing the existing (good, working) rules on where tourist hotels are to be located. And they are not a neutral marketplace because many people would not rent a room from a random stranger without the guarantees that Airbnb claims to provide. If eBay were to offer warranty on legal gray-area arms deals, you'd hold them accountable, too, I presume. So why treat Airbnb's legal gray-area rentals any better?
- CPLX 7y ago
  The premise of this argument is ridiculous. By this logic any law, of any kind, that prohibits potentially profitable activity is the source of the lawbreaking. Is the reason people dump trash on vacant lots because we regulate landfills?
  - roenxi 7y ago
    In the extreme it is ridiculous, but in small doses it is actually not so unreasonable. The government is not an effective force at stopping people doing things that most of everyone thinks should be done. Government prohibitions work best when there is a small & unpopular minority which is being bought into line. Contrast an alcohol prohibition with laws prohibiting murder. One of those is popularly supported and generally effective. The other is a good example of the law creating a wrongdoing out of nothing.
AYBABTME 7y ago
Speculation time. It's year 2050. AirBnB and the likes have come to their full realization. What do you think your city looks like? Where do the locals live? What do you think a "AirBnB plateau'd" equilibrium looks like?
- zelos 7y ago
  I guess something like the world before AirBnB? Presumably the current regulations around short term rentals/hotels etc developed over time in response to problems the initially unregulated industry caused. So we'll end up going through the whole cycle again?
- stzup7 7y ago
  HaaS (Home as a Service) is now common. People pay their rent via credit card, online.
swiley 7y ago
There’s going to be a social or economic revolution over US housing prices. I think everyone will be happier with an economic one although it will make the politicians look bad.

37 points by luu 7y ago

cm2012 7y ago

Wonder what the current status is.

TaylorAlexander 7y ago
The Airbnb listing is still active, but it only has reviews from September 2018. Apparently lots of people stayed that month, and none since? Or subsequent reviews were removed after the rental owner got caught...
- jonpurdy 7y ago
  Looks like there is no availability at all from now until at least a few months in the future, so most likely the owner blocked off all the time to lay low for awhile.

matchbok 7y ago

As a facilitator to these illegal dealings, Airbnb should be held responsible. It has turned from a quaint little company for bed and breakfasts to a massive illegal hotel and scam website. At the very best they are a huge operation to transfer wealth to the owner class at the expense of everyone else.

nouveaux 7y ago
At the same time, not allowing an owner to rent is transferring wealth to corporate hoteliers. Why is that better? I rather transfer wealth to middle class and upper middle class than give it to the 1%. Does anyone know why its so hard to tax Airbnb? Airbnb should be responsible for collecting tax on behalf of the state and county. Tax them and pass it on to the little guys.
- ohazi 7y ago
  > At the same time, not allowing an owner to rent is transferring wealth to corporate hoteliers. If you truly want this level of freedom, you need to not buy a condo or a property with a HOA. Additional rules for owners makes sense for condos and buildings with obviously shared common infrastructure and resources. I think it makes less sense for detached housing. Apparently a large number of developers building new houses at the subdivision-scale (not in California, lol) are now putting in HOAs automatically. It's going to be a pretty shitty situation in 30 years.
  - thisisastopsign 7y ago
    I have a rental property that is in an HOA and I rent it out. What are you inferring?
    - tingletech 7y ago
      I'm not sure the exact point of the grand parent post -- but for a multi-unit building with the units titled as condos (which would usually have an owner's association) the rules for getting conventional financing in the US (I'm spacing on what those are called) dictate a certain percentage of the units must be owner occupied, lest the loans are not re-sellable in the secondary mortgage markets. Condo HOAs will thus sometimes try to pass rules or amend bylaws to establish rental restrictions of various sorts -- most commonly setting a minimum lease term, but sometimes trying to set percentages of units that must be owner occupied, limiting the numbers of units that can be owned by a single owner, or establishing a time frame a unit must be owner occupied before it can be rented. My understanding is that most of the new apartment buildings they are building around me in Oakland and trying to rent out are "pre-converted" or already titled as condos -- but as the investors are renting them out generally there is no HOA to speak of as there is one owner. But, should market conditions change, common areas and separate titles are already established so less paperwork would be required to sell off the units.
    - ohazi 7y ago
      Is your rental property a house or a condo? I'm asserting that buying a detached house that falls under an HOA is something that should generally be avoided. With a house, there are rarely shared resources that actually need to be managed so any potential benefit is minimal at best, and bad HOAs can be a nightmare, so the risk is high. I'm also lamenting the fact that developers building new neighborhoods of detached houses (e.g. in places like Austin) are apparently putting almost all of them under HOAs, perhaps because of some legal meme that doing so somehow reduces risk for the developer, or increases sale prices. I think this is an unfortunate trend.

kp98 7y ago

As someone currently going through Airbnb hell, I’m really annoyed because on one hand a short term rental market is so necessary for so many people. On the other hand I despise Airbnb for enabling the following scenario: I rent an Airbnb in the Toronto suburbs, there is WiFi advertised, as a remote dev my livelihood depended on it. I get to the place, WiFi didn’t work, and there was zero bedding on my bed. I contact the host and he tells me he doesn’t speak English well (Chinese) but that I can just try fooling with the router. I do so. Another guest then proceeds to blame me for the broken WiFi and threatens my life (I literally have a picture of a note left addressing me on the router). I then call Airbnb saying I don’t feel safe. Airbnb legitimately sides with the host to my total shock. I sit there thinking what the hell and just eat the loss and rent the next place. Airbnb is so supply constricted that it virtually always sides with the host. Compare that to NYC housing laws which are some of the most tenant friendly I could’ve written myself. So Airbnb screws individuals through various policies degrading consumer protection. The world decided zero interest rates were good, so Chinese investors like the aforementioned buy places outright with minimal capital down and rent them out to local Canadians at a premium, driving rent and prices up. The result is that domestic markets have been brutalized and the rich have won in the zero rate economy, especially on housing. I’ve had 8 Airbnb experiences and 4 turned out awful, the other four were fantastic. I used to think the company was amazing for building this new market now I’m completely jaded and feel bad for hoping this company rots

juskrey 7y ago
After our recent month-long rent in US the host tried to bill us for some minor (and likely preexisting, anyways, who actually even tries to notice things like cooking pot wear on check in?) wear and tear in total for $1000 or so. Was a bit shocking since we are using the service for years and are far from destructive tenants. Airbnb sided with us and cancelled their request. What else to tell? Apparently Airbnb does not like to lose its own money, but also does not allow to extract unjustified value like that.
- modo_mario 7y ago
  Even if you'd get some wear on your stupidly expensive handmade Japanese chef knife and overpriced cast iron pan and whatnot...why leave that in the place you rent out full time? There's no way you get to 1000$ wear easily on multiple small things unless you have someone's making an effort to be trash or breaks a large appliance in which case it's provable and Airbnb probably knows it. The story of someone getting scammed out of a lot of money like that can spread.

supernova87a 7y ago

I don't put the blame at the homeowner/absentee landlord, the building, or even Airbnb. All these problems can be traced to city governments that fail/refuse to respond to the changing dynamic of housing demand, and incentivize homeowners to buy and rent out their properties. If cities managed/governed their property regulations correctly, we wouldn't be facing a situation where development is so constrained, existing property is so valuable (and appreciating), and short term capacity is so lacking. I don't blame people for operating within the incentives that have been put up for them. It's unavoidable. You think each individual Airbnb owner is responsible for this situation? Despite this article being from 2018, the problem of course continues, even has gotten worse. And cities (well, most anyway) do nothing to manage their growth in conjunction with the unstoppable demand that they will have to eventually acknowledge.

fxtentacle 7y ago
I blame Airbnb and I suggest we hold them accountable because they are the ones enabling people to rent out short-term in areas that were planned as residential. Hotels are properly regulated, but AirBnb is profiting off circumventing the existing (good, working) rules on where tourist hotels are to be located. And they are not a neutral marketplace because many people would not rent a room from a random stranger without the guarantees that Airbnb claims to provide. If eBay were to offer warranty on legal gray-area arms deals, you'd hold them accountable, too, I presume. So why treat Airbnb's legal gray-area rentals any better?
CPLX 7y ago
The premise of this argument is ridiculous. By this logic any law, of any kind, that prohibits potentially profitable activity is the source of the lawbreaking. Is the reason people dump trash on vacant lots because we regulate landfills?
- roenxi 7y ago
  In the extreme it is ridiculous, but in small doses it is actually not so unreasonable. The government is not an effective force at stopping people doing things that most of everyone thinks should be done. Government prohibitions work best when there is a small & unpopular minority which is being bought into line. Contrast an alcohol prohibition with laws prohibiting murder. One of those is popularly supported and generally effective. The other is a good example of the law creating a wrongdoing out of nothing.

AYBABTME 7y ago

Speculation time. It's year 2050. AirBnB and the likes have come to their full realization. What do you think your city looks like? Where do the locals live? What do you think a "AirBnB plateau'd" equilibrium looks like?

zelos 7y ago
I guess something like the world before AirBnB? Presumably the current regulations around short term rentals/hotels etc developed over time in response to problems the initially unregulated industry caused. So we'll end up going through the whole cycle again?
stzup7 7y ago
HaaS (Home as a Service) is now common. People pay their rent via credit card, online.

swiley 7y ago

There’s going to be a social or economic revolution over US housing prices. I think everyone will be happier with an economic one although it will make the politicians look bad.