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I originally just down voted this comment, but I feel it warrants a response rather than a down vote. I removed my down vote so here are my thoughts. Big tech,

I originally just down voted this comment, but I feel it warrants a response rather than a down vote. I removed my down vote so here are my thoughts. Big tech, Google and Facebook in particular don't have "weird process gaps". What they have is a willful ignorance of any and all customer service. They are the vanguard of a new economy devoid of any and all notion of customer service. That quaint notion is too expensive in today's economy. Today, "customer service" is provided via a one way email black hole. The only way anyone gets customer service from any unicorn is either by shaming them in a vial social media post or leveraging an internal contact. There used to be a time where one could call and talk to an actual person who actually worked for the company and might, just might be in a position to help. Those days began to end with the shift to offshore call centers and now have completely vanished thanks to canned email responses. I NEVER in my wildest dreams would have though "I wish Google had an offshore call center to support me". Years ago, while flying British Air from Nairobi to London I had my camera equipment and dress shoes stolen by ground crew. I called up BA and explained that I had watched a person on the tarmac open my bag as it was being loaded onto the plain. I don't even know if the ground crewman was a BA employee or an Airport employee, but the BA rep on the phone told me she was mortified at what had happened and the next day they couriered a check to me. No bickering, no stonewalling, no email voids, just pure customer service. That one great experience was snatched from the jaws of disappointment by a timely customer service rep with the authority to help and has meant that I will fly BA whenever it is possible over all other airline options. Would they do the same today? I doubt it, but they did it once and I will always be a fan as a result.

rckoepke 7y ago
Just 3 years ago BA went above and beyond for me when I left a wallet on a plane, but didn't find out until I was in a different terminal (45 minutes later), and couldn't go back due to security/visa checkpoints. BA sent runners to the plane in the other terminal and they physically carried my wallet with all cards/cash in it to me. I've heard a lot of well-deserved criticism of BA as well, but it does seem like many of their staff are still willing to go above and beyond.
- teh_klev 7y ago
  I had a similar thing a few years back. Left my mobile phone on my seat, had already passed various gates and checkpoints and they did exactly the same thing. Within ten minutes I was re-united with my phone. I couldn't thank them enough.
  - reaperducer 7y ago
    I had the opposite experience on Delta once. Left my keys on the plane seat, and remembered once I was at baggage claim. All Delta would do is let me fill out some paperwork. I ended up having to have a locksmith come out to the airport parking lot to make a new key for my truck.
    - rckoepke 7y ago
      And never forget that "United Breaks Guitars!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo
zaroth 7y ago
I think this perfectly illustrates the different business models between these companies. On the one hand, a company with billions of users where no money changes hands and each interaction is worth maybe $0.01 in advertising, and on the other hand a service for which you are paying hundreds or maybe thousands of dollars each time. Don’t forget that just last year we were watching videos of innocent passengers being violently dragged off planes that they paid to be on. Despite some feel good anecdotes, airlines are by no means a bastion of customer service nirvana. Airlines hold 2 of the top 20 spots among the “Most Hated Companies” in the US. Good customer service, even when your ASP is tens of thousands of dollars per customer, is probably the single hardest thing for most companies. Whether it’s Airlines, Search Engines, Phone/Computer Manufacturers, Car companies, etc., we’ve seen basically every otherwise beloved brand fall on their face when it comes to customer service at scale. (And that’s when we’re not discovering their products are faulty, dangerous, secretly crippled over time, spying on us, exploiting our personal data,...) Of course there are weird process gaps. Here we are seeing an account being flagged for incarceration, possibly because the account is actually being attacked by someone submitting fraudulent requests in an attempt to get it closed. I don’t have a Facebook account and I don’t want one. But if that isn’t a weird process gap I don’t know what is.
- mehrdadn 7y ago
  > Don’t forget that just last year we were watching videos of innocent passengers being violently dragged off planes that they paid to be on. Are you referring to the United incident in 2017, or a later one?
  - zaroth 7y ago
    I swear time is speeding up.
mypalmike 7y ago
You got customer service when you were in fact a customer. You don't get customer service from an ad platform unless you are a paying advertiser. Complaints from the eyeballs carry less weight than complaints from the money shovelers.
- perl4ever 7y ago
  This sentiment is so often expressed, nobody challenges it as not making sense. Who redefined "paying" as meaning cash payment? If you are a supplier of eyeballs, you are purchasing stuff in exchange for eyeballs. You are purchasing things, so you are a customer. Also, when you pay for an Android phone, you are a paying customer of Google, with cash, credit, or whatever. Lots of other things, but those are the first that come to mind.
  - iudqnolq 7y ago
    And if you have a g suite account, even if you're only paying a few dollars a month, you can call a "Google Support" number and get help. They say it only covers g suite services, but I've gotten help with issues with unrelated Google products through it.
    - perl4ever 7y ago
      In fairness, I did buy a phone directly from Google, and when it died recently, I did get actual support, at least someone to chat with who gave me an RMA. Perhaps I should have asked her my gmail questions.
      - Moru 7y ago
        Yes, google has real people in the support still. They usually ask "Is there something else I can help you with today?" That is a very open question :-)
  - pmiller2 7y ago
    “Paying” as in “cash payment” is literally the standard dictionary definition. It’s also where the top line number of any financial statement comes from. You are, in fact, the one redefining “paying” to suit your purposes.
raxxorrax 7y ago
These services have a low individual customer value. Each customer only provides insignificant turnover and there are billions of users. Not an excuse though, but spending money on these services is rare and it could be argued if you really are the customer of Facebook for example. The companies in question probably just rely on the dependency of users, so any support has a low priority.
762236 7y ago
What ruins HN for me is that people downvote for disagreement. The rules, last I checked, forbid that --- downvotes are for poor behavior, not because you disagree.
- grzm 7y ago
  > "The rules, last I checked, forbid that --- downvotes are for poor behavior, not because you disagree." This has never been the case on HN. Here are some 'pg comments on the topic 'dang provided a while back[0]. - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171 (2008) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=392347 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=392347 (2008) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=658691 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=658691 (2009) [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16131314 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16131314
  - overgard 7y ago
    It may be the policy, but passive aggressive behaviour (which is what downvoting is) ruins any community.
    - dang 7y ago
      I've not seen any evidence that downvoting patterns have changed on HN in recent years, and the rules haven't changed either. If the community is being ruined, something else must be doing it.
      - overgard 7y ago
        Honestly I'm kind of baffled by (what I assume) is the moderation teams' stance on downvotes. I see so many seemingly reasonable comments with "edit: why am I being downvoted into oblivion". I'm not saying the site is ruined, but I can easily ask: how is that productive? The whole point of having a downvote system is to correct people towards more productive behavior, no? If people don't know what they said wrong, how can they fix it? If the the user can't figure out why they're being punished, and someone like me who has been on this site for a long time and is also going "why on earth did that get downvoted", then what purpose does it serve other than as a public flogging device? Then again, considering that the site design hasn't changed to even have a up-vote button that works on mobile, I'm not exactly holding my breath that anything here could ever change.

rckoepke 7y ago

Just 3 years ago BA went above and beyond for me when I left a wallet on a plane, but didn't find out until I was in a different terminal (45 minutes later), and couldn't go back due to security/visa checkpoints. BA sent runners to the plane in the other terminal and they physically carried my wallet with all cards/cash in it to me. I've heard a lot of well-deserved criticism of BA as well, but it does seem like many of their staff are still willing to go above and beyond.

teh_klev 7y ago
I had a similar thing a few years back. Left my mobile phone on my seat, had already passed various gates and checkpoints and they did exactly the same thing. Within ten minutes I was re-united with my phone. I couldn't thank them enough.
- reaperducer 7y ago
  I had the opposite experience on Delta once. Left my keys on the plane seat, and remembered once I was at baggage claim. All Delta would do is let me fill out some paperwork. I ended up having to have a locksmith come out to the airport parking lot to make a new key for my truck.
  - rckoepke 7y ago
    And never forget that "United Breaks Guitars!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo

zaroth 7y ago

I think this perfectly illustrates the different business models between these companies. On the one hand, a company with billions of users where no money changes hands and each interaction is worth maybe $0.01 in advertising, and on the other hand a service for which you are paying hundreds or maybe thousands of dollars each time. Don’t forget that just last year we were watching videos of innocent passengers being violently dragged off planes that they paid to be on. Despite some feel good anecdotes, airlines are by no means a bastion of customer service nirvana. Airlines hold 2 of the top 20 spots among the “Most Hated Companies” in the US. Good customer service, even when your ASP is tens of thousands of dollars per customer, is probably the single hardest thing for most companies. Whether it’s Airlines, Search Engines, Phone/Computer Manufacturers, Car companies, etc., we’ve seen basically every otherwise beloved brand fall on their face when it comes to customer service at scale. (And that’s when we’re not discovering their products are faulty, dangerous, secretly crippled over time, spying on us, exploiting our personal data,...) Of course there are weird process gaps. Here we are seeing an account being flagged for incarceration, possibly because the account is actually being attacked by someone submitting fraudulent requests in an attempt to get it closed. I don’t have a Facebook account and I don’t want one. But if that isn’t a weird process gap I don’t know what is.

mehrdadn 7y ago
> Don’t forget that just last year we were watching videos of innocent passengers being violently dragged off planes that they paid to be on. Are you referring to the United incident in 2017, or a later one?
- zaroth 7y ago
  I swear time is speeding up.

mypalmike 7y ago

You got customer service when you were in fact a customer. You don't get customer service from an ad platform unless you are a paying advertiser. Complaints from the eyeballs carry less weight than complaints from the money shovelers.

perl4ever 7y ago
This sentiment is so often expressed, nobody challenges it as not making sense. Who redefined "paying" as meaning cash payment? If you are a supplier of eyeballs, you are purchasing stuff in exchange for eyeballs. You are purchasing things, so you are a customer. Also, when you pay for an Android phone, you are a paying customer of Google, with cash, credit, or whatever. Lots of other things, but those are the first that come to mind.
- iudqnolq 7y ago
  And if you have a g suite account, even if you're only paying a few dollars a month, you can call a "Google Support" number and get help. They say it only covers g suite services, but I've gotten help with issues with unrelated Google products through it.
  - perl4ever 7y ago
    In fairness, I did buy a phone directly from Google, and when it died recently, I did get actual support, at least someone to chat with who gave me an RMA. Perhaps I should have asked her my gmail questions.
    - Moru 7y ago
      Yes, google has real people in the support still. They usually ask "Is there something else I can help you with today?" That is a very open question :-)
- pmiller2 7y ago
  “Paying” as in “cash payment” is literally the standard dictionary definition. It’s also where the top line number of any financial statement comes from. You are, in fact, the one redefining “paying” to suit your purposes.

raxxorrax 7y ago

These services have a low individual customer value. Each customer only provides insignificant turnover and there are billions of users. Not an excuse though, but spending money on these services is rare and it could be argued if you really are the customer of Facebook for example. The companies in question probably just rely on the dependency of users, so any support has a low priority.

762236 7y ago

What ruins HN for me is that people downvote for disagreement. The rules, last I checked, forbid that --- downvotes are for poor behavior, not because you disagree.

grzm 7y ago
> "The rules, last I checked, forbid that --- downvotes are for poor behavior, not because you disagree." This has never been the case on HN. Here are some 'pg comments on the topic 'dang provided a while back[0]. - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171 (2008) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=392347 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=392347 (2008) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=658691 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=658691 (2009) [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16131314 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16131314
- overgard 7y ago
  It may be the policy, but passive aggressive behaviour (which is what downvoting is) ruins any community.
  - dang 7y ago
    I've not seen any evidence that downvoting patterns have changed on HN in recent years, and the rules haven't changed either. If the community is being ruined, something else must be doing it.
    - overgard 7y ago
      Honestly I'm kind of baffled by (what I assume) is the moderation teams' stance on downvotes. I see so many seemingly reasonable comments with "edit: why am I being downvoted into oblivion". I'm not saying the site is ruined, but I can easily ask: how is that productive? The whole point of having a downvote system is to correct people towards more productive behavior, no? If people don't know what they said wrong, how can they fix it? If the the user can't figure out why they're being punished, and someone like me who has been on this site for a long time and is also going "why on earth did that get downvoted", then what purpose does it serve other than as a public flogging device? Then again, considering that the site design hasn't changed to even have a up-vote button that works on mobile, I'm not exactly holding my breath that anything here could ever change.