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> At $4.2m per store, Chick-fil-A’s average revenue is the highest of any fast-food chain in America, dwarfing both direct competitors (KFC; $1.2m) and bigger b

> At $4.2m per store, Chick-fil-A’s average revenue is the highest of any fast-food chain in America, dwarfing both direct competitors (KFC; $1.2m) and bigger brands (McDonald’s; $2.8m) Wow, I did not know this. Why is that?

dantheman 7y ago
You can only own one store. So they're always owner managed.
- sixtypoundhound 7y ago
  This is a secret weapon. Most organizations lose 30% - 50% of their "mojo" with each layer of separation from an "engaged stakeholder". Generally meaning someone with equity or substantial profit sharing. I'd also bet that the majority of their owners only own one business, which means they are even more engaged. Compare that with the typical master franchise operator, who may be running multiple locations and multiple brands. Unless they have an awesome process and technology team, their operational efficiency is probably a full order of magnitude below the typical highly engaged Chick-fil-A...
manigandham 7y ago
Fantastic food that is higher quality than the typical chains. Served fast and close to the same prices. Individually owned and operated with tight franchise oversight. Also the faux Twitter outrage has helped give them more popularity.
- xwowsersx 7y ago
  Haha always backfires.
- theGays 7y ago
  Also, it turns out, gay marriage is fucking retarded.
- sixtypoundhound 7y ago
  Politics aside, the food is awesome, fast, and polite. And generally better for you than the major chains... I'm not really sure what MacDonald's actually serves anymore... much less any of the others...
  - manigandham 7y ago
    All of the old chains have launched bigger/better/more expensive food options but it's hard to compete since their reputation and existing customer base knows them for a certain price and quality.
  - SmirkingRevenge 7y ago
    > Politics aside, the food is awesome, fast, and polite. Is it though? I really don't get it. Chick-fil-A's entire menu consists of unremarkable chicken sandwich variations, and unremarkable... everything else. It's just not very good - at least compared to other fast food options. It doesn't stand out to me. I can't figure out why it stands out to so many other people. I think the push-back against them from LGBTQ activists is really pretty silly. Even still, I know many bleeding hearts who are perfectly aligned with such activists and who regularly patronize Chick-fil-A (but jokingly call it "hate-chicken" or something similar) - but they keep going, and keep spending their money there. Why?!? The food just isn't special or particularly good.
    - CDSlice 7y ago
      I think it is pretty good, especially compared to stuff like McDonald's or other fast food. They also have amazing customer service and are consistently fast at getting you your food. I'm curious which fast food chains you think taste better, I'd like to give them a try.
      - SmirkingRevenge 7y ago
        To me, its just another fast-food chicken sandwich, I guess. IMHO, the sandwiches from every other major chain, including McDonald's, Wendy's, and Burger King are pretty similar. Nothing differentiates the Chick-fil-A sandwich from the others, that would cause me to wait in the long, traffic-stopping lines that form at their restaurants at meal times. It really baffles me.
- OrgNet 7y ago
  > Fantastic food The spices on the chicken taste weird to me...
pascoej 7y ago
Every time I've been in a CFA in the past few years it's been absolutely packed, but their system is efficient enough that the wait time is only a few minutes and the service is friendly.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
lonelappde 7y ago
"Average" is a meaningless measure when the denominator is different. Fewer stores targeting higher revenue areas, often where they are exclusive local operator. It's like Mac vs PC. You can get higher revenue per store if you limit your market size.
- sdinsn 7y ago
  Chipotle has a similar number of stores and targets higher income areas as well. They average of ~2M per store.
frankharv 7y ago
>Why is that? Because the franchise owner is on site for 10 hours a day. How many McDonalds owners even show up at a store a day?
- frankharv 7y ago
  I also think their counter workers are some of the best. Maybe because of the religious ethos they promote. They actually care about making you happy. Have you seen the video of the McDonalds worker assaulting a customer because they complained about cold food. They are the worst. I also think the size of their chicken sandwich is the key. Not press-meat but a true 6 ounce breast filet. The other fast food stores use junky meats.
  - frankharv 7y ago
    Oh yes let us not forget they have a double lanes drive through. During the busy periods they put order takers outside in line to take orders. They have so serious efficiencies. I like that.
    - lightedman 7y ago
      "Oh yes let us not forget they have a double lanes drive through. During the busy periods they put order takers outside in line to take orders." In-N-Out was doing those a decade ago, easily. It was my first memory of eating at one, the line spilled out to the highway exit ramp, and they had people there outside running down the lanes and the street to take orders.
    - chrisdhal 7y ago
      Virtually every McDonald's around me (Minneapolis area) has double drive through lanes. I've been to a number in the area that has people outside taking orders (during the summer at least) during lunch.
  - elfexec 7y ago
    > Not press-meat but a true 6 ounce breast filet. The other fast food stores use junky meats. Maybe not even junk "meats" at all. "Those results were averaged: the oven roasted chicken scored 53.6 per cent chicken DNA, and the chicken strips were found to have just 42.8 per cent chicken DNA. The majority of the remaining DNA? Soy." https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/marketplace-chicken-fast-food-1.3993967 https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/marketplace-chicken-fast-fo...
irrational 7y ago
They opened up the first one near me in a Portland Oregon suburb. The place was packed whenever they were open with drive-thru cars spilling out into the street. I thought the madness would end after a few days/weeks, but it's been years and they still have a huge draw. I went in there once just to try it. It was good, but not the best thing I've ever had. I wonder if it is nostalgia from people from the SE USA that is driving all the business.
- hoten 7y ago
  That's just the thing- it's not good, it's consistently good. That's the draw.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- CDSlice 7y ago
  Chick-Fil-A's in the SE (or at least NC) are also packed to the brim whenever it is close to a meal time. Although they don't serve the best food in the world the customer service is excellent, the food is pretty good for fast food and it is consistent in matter which location you go to, and you can get your food much faster than other places despite the massive crowds.
  - chiph 7y ago
    The one at Park Rd Shopping Center in Charlotte is going to be rebuilt as a drive-thru only location at the (rather firm, supposedly) request of the city because it's such a traffic nightmare. https://www.charlotteagenda.com/152719/chick-fil-a-woodlawn-road/ https://www.charlotteagenda.com/152719/chick-fil-a-woodlawn-...
    - SmirkingRevenge 7y ago
      Honestly, the obnoxious lines at this location and others around the city are one of the reasons I really hate the chain. It's typical fast food garbage - lines spilling out into the street for that crap is just so stupid.
jnwatson 7y ago
It hits square in the middle of the “healthy” fast food market. It is perceived to be slightly more upscale and less bad for you than the traditional burger chains. It is literally the default choice for soccer moms ferrying kids among afternoon activities.
- wffurr 7y ago
  Fried chicken sandwiches are somehow healthy?
  - toyg 7y ago
    Key word being “perceived”...
  - cpitman 7y ago
    They also have grilled chicken variants, and wraps. Between the two, you can get an entree for a couple hundred calories.
  - Spooky23 7y ago
    People believe that red meat is awful, unethical and destroying the planet. It’s sort of like how folks won’t eat pork.
    - ibejoeb 7y ago
      It goes in cycles. Remember only a few years ago when eggs were an epidemic, killing Americans daily. Dietary science really was awful, and probably still is comparatively weak. I think it's getting better though; I'm pretty convinced that sugars are bad.
froindt 7y ago
I'm an industrial engineer, so these sorts of questions fascinate me. My intuition is their revenue is so much higher because of a mix of higher service people are willing to pay for (almost casual versus definitively fast food), higher average cost per person, and cheaper inputs (chicken versus beef price per pound). # Speed of Service I've ordered Chick-fil-a and literally been handed my food before the credit was done processing. That's not the norm, but was surprising. They get fast casual pricing while still being able to complete orders in a fast food #Cost per Person Chick-fil-a doesn't have a value menu. As a quick reference, look at the menu prices for Chick-fil-a [1] and McDonald's [2]. It's not a perfect datasource, but it roughly aligns with what I've seen. At McDonald's you can get 2 cheeseburgers for $2. The cheapest sandwich at Chick-fil-a is listed at $3. Chick-fil-a doesn't have a "value menu" or "dollar menu" like other fast food chains do. # Menu Simplicity Chick-fil-a does a better job of keeping their menu simple. While it's not a direct effect on revenue, it would help training and there would probably be bigger containers of ingredients and fewer to reach over (reducing completion time). Compare the unique ingredients between McDonald's [3] and Chick-fil-a [4]. There are way more combinations with McDonald's than Chick-fil-a. Additional complexity to be dealt with behind the scenes (though I've heard they make it dead simple to learn how to make the food). Taco Bell can (or used to be) be noted for only having about 8-10 ingredients which were mixed and matched into their entire menu! [1] https://www.fastfoodmenuprices.com/chick-fil-a-prices/ https://www.fastfoodmenuprices.com/chick-fil-a-prices/ [2] https://www.fastfoodmenuprices.com/mcdonalds-prices/ https://www.fastfoodmenuprices.com/mcdonalds-prices/ [3] https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/full-menu.html https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/full-menu.html [4] https://www.chick-fil-a.com/OrderFood https://www.chick-fil-a.com/OrderFood
- sixtypoundhound 7y ago
  And ability to execute consistently across the chain. That's the real miracle here. Everyone else is hit or miss. I don't think I've ever seen a bad Chick-fil-A...
  - Spooky23 7y ago
    They exist. The Chick Fil A outside of Hilton Head Island, SC was a total dump as of a few years ago. It closed.
dave5104 7y ago
One reason might be that in the US, there are close to 14,000 McDonald's locations, but only close to 2,400 Chick-Fil-A locations. If you want McDonald's you have almost 6 different locations to consider for every 1 Chick-Fil-A. In other words, the "per store" metric isn't as impressive when you look at the number of stores.
- maxerickson 7y ago
  Well, it depends on what your goals are. Maximizing overall revenue (the lots of stores model) isn't necessarily the best strategy.
  - dave5104 7y ago
    Yea, it sucks for the franchisees, but seems to be a good deal for the corporate franchiser.
T-hawk 7y ago
An average like this doesn't necessarily mean the high end is good, it can also mean the absence of a low end dragging it down. An average like this means selectivity, avoiding out-of-the-way or oversaturated neighborhoods that would see less business.
lightedman 7y ago
Their prices are absurd for what you're getting. The regular CFA sandwich here (chicken, pickles, toasted butter bun) is $4.29 each. I can go to Gus Jr. (a local option) and get the same chicken sandwich (same amount of chicken, same bun with butter) with more pickles and lettuce, for $0.99.
jonas21 7y ago
Short answer: because both Chick-fil-A and McDonald's want it that way. Longer answer: McDonald's has chosen to optimize for total revenue, while Chick-fil-A has chosen to optimize for something more like ROI on each store. This is a direct consequence of the different franchise models, where McDonald's takes a cut of sales and doesn't have an ownership stake in each location, while Chick-fil-A take a cut of both sales and profits, and has ownership of the physical location. As dave5104 mentioned, there are over 14,000 McDonald's locations in the US vs around 2,000 Chick-fil-As. McDonald's has saturated the market to the point that individual McDonald's locations cannibalize the sales of other nearby locations. For example, there are 14 McDonald's locations within a 5-mile radius of where I live. If you closed down half of them, total revenue would probably drop some, but not anywhere near half. Many people who wanted McDonald's would just travel a little bit further to get to one. As a result, per-store revenue would go up. Per-store profit would go up by an even greater percentage since there are fixed costs per location. And if you closed the right number (which might be more or less than half), total profit would go up as well. This would be great for franchisees, but from McDonalds' perspective it's worse since total sales would decrease, and that's what they're getting a cut of. Chick-fil-A's model, where they take a cut of both sales and profits aligns their interests more with their franchisees.
- privateSFacct 7y ago
  Interesting some decades ago I think McDonald's did a study that led to something called the 4 minute McDonald's universe which was a distance they found people would go for spur of the moment purchasing. Obviously impractical, but this idea of optimizing for total revenue has been around for a bit I think.
  - asdff 7y ago
    And it's not limited to mcdonalds. Starbucks is getting notorious for this. Here is an area by me with three starbii: https://goo.gl/maps/qR2XLLVYmqiyrHtLA https://goo.gl/maps/qR2XLLVYmqiyrHtLA One in the vons, directly across the street from one in the ralphs, and if you head north on vermont in this street view you will hit a burger king. Today that is a freestanding starbucks. Three starbucks locations in less than a square mile.

dantheman 7y ago

You can only own one store. So they're always owner managed.

sixtypoundhound 7y ago
This is a secret weapon. Most organizations lose 30% - 50% of their "mojo" with each layer of separation from an "engaged stakeholder". Generally meaning someone with equity or substantial profit sharing. I'd also bet that the majority of their owners only own one business, which means they are even more engaged. Compare that with the typical master franchise operator, who may be running multiple locations and multiple brands. Unless they have an awesome process and technology team, their operational efficiency is probably a full order of magnitude below the typical highly engaged Chick-fil-A...

manigandham 7y ago

Fantastic food that is higher quality than the typical chains. Served fast and close to the same prices. Individually owned and operated with tight franchise oversight. Also the faux Twitter outrage has helped give them more popularity.

xwowsersx 7y ago
Haha always backfires.
theGays 7y ago
Also, it turns out, gay marriage is fucking retarded.
sixtypoundhound 7y ago
Politics aside, the food is awesome, fast, and polite. And generally better for you than the major chains... I'm not really sure what MacDonald's actually serves anymore... much less any of the others...
- manigandham 7y ago
  All of the old chains have launched bigger/better/more expensive food options but it's hard to compete since their reputation and existing customer base knows them for a certain price and quality.
- SmirkingRevenge 7y ago
  > Politics aside, the food is awesome, fast, and polite. Is it though? I really don't get it. Chick-fil-A's entire menu consists of unremarkable chicken sandwich variations, and unremarkable... everything else. It's just not very good - at least compared to other fast food options. It doesn't stand out to me. I can't figure out why it stands out to so many other people. I think the push-back against them from LGBTQ activists is really pretty silly. Even still, I know many bleeding hearts who are perfectly aligned with such activists and who regularly patronize Chick-fil-A (but jokingly call it "hate-chicken" or something similar) - but they keep going, and keep spending their money there. Why?!? The food just isn't special or particularly good.
  - CDSlice 7y ago
    I think it is pretty good, especially compared to stuff like McDonald's or other fast food. They also have amazing customer service and are consistently fast at getting you your food. I'm curious which fast food chains you think taste better, I'd like to give them a try.
    - SmirkingRevenge 7y ago
      To me, its just another fast-food chicken sandwich, I guess. IMHO, the sandwiches from every other major chain, including McDonald's, Wendy's, and Burger King are pretty similar. Nothing differentiates the Chick-fil-A sandwich from the others, that would cause me to wait in the long, traffic-stopping lines that form at their restaurants at meal times. It really baffles me.
OrgNet 7y ago
> Fantastic food The spices on the chicken taste weird to me...

pascoej 7y ago

Every time I've been in a CFA in the past few years it's been absolutely packed, but their system is efficient enough that the wait time is only a few minutes and the service is friendly.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

lonelappde 7y ago

"Average" is a meaningless measure when the denominator is different. Fewer stores targeting higher revenue areas, often where they are exclusive local operator. It's like Mac vs PC. You can get higher revenue per store if you limit your market size.

sdinsn 7y ago
Chipotle has a similar number of stores and targets higher income areas as well. They average of ~2M per store.

frankharv 7y ago

>Why is that? Because the franchise owner is on site for 10 hours a day. How many McDonalds owners even show up at a store a day?

frankharv 7y ago
I also think their counter workers are some of the best. Maybe because of the religious ethos they promote. They actually care about making you happy. Have you seen the video of the McDonalds worker assaulting a customer because they complained about cold food. They are the worst. I also think the size of their chicken sandwich is the key. Not press-meat but a true 6 ounce breast filet. The other fast food stores use junky meats.
- frankharv 7y ago
  Oh yes let us not forget they have a double lanes drive through. During the busy periods they put order takers outside in line to take orders. They have so serious efficiencies. I like that.
  - lightedman 7y ago
    "Oh yes let us not forget they have a double lanes drive through. During the busy periods they put order takers outside in line to take orders." In-N-Out was doing those a decade ago, easily. It was my first memory of eating at one, the line spilled out to the highway exit ramp, and they had people there outside running down the lanes and the street to take orders.
  - chrisdhal 7y ago
    Virtually every McDonald's around me (Minneapolis area) has double drive through lanes. I've been to a number in the area that has people outside taking orders (during the summer at least) during lunch.
- elfexec 7y ago
  > Not press-meat but a true 6 ounce breast filet. The other fast food stores use junky meats. Maybe not even junk "meats" at all. "Those results were averaged: the oven roasted chicken scored 53.6 per cent chicken DNA, and the chicken strips were found to have just 42.8 per cent chicken DNA. The majority of the remaining DNA? Soy." https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/marketplace-chicken-fast-food-1.3993967 https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/marketplace-chicken-fast-fo...

irrational 7y ago

They opened up the first one near me in a Portland Oregon suburb. The place was packed whenever they were open with drive-thru cars spilling out into the street. I thought the madness would end after a few days/weeks, but it's been years and they still have a huge draw. I went in there once just to try it. It was good, but not the best thing I've ever had. I wonder if it is nostalgia from people from the SE USA that is driving all the business.

hoten 7y ago
That's just the thing- it's not good, it's consistently good. That's the draw.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
CDSlice 7y ago
Chick-Fil-A's in the SE (or at least NC) are also packed to the brim whenever it is close to a meal time. Although they don't serve the best food in the world the customer service is excellent, the food is pretty good for fast food and it is consistent in matter which location you go to, and you can get your food much faster than other places despite the massive crowds.
- chiph 7y ago
  The one at Park Rd Shopping Center in Charlotte is going to be rebuilt as a drive-thru only location at the (rather firm, supposedly) request of the city because it's such a traffic nightmare. https://www.charlotteagenda.com/152719/chick-fil-a-woodlawn-road/ https://www.charlotteagenda.com/152719/chick-fil-a-woodlawn-...
  - SmirkingRevenge 7y ago
    Honestly, the obnoxious lines at this location and others around the city are one of the reasons I really hate the chain. It's typical fast food garbage - lines spilling out into the street for that crap is just so stupid.

jnwatson 7y ago

It hits square in the middle of the “healthy” fast food market. It is perceived to be slightly more upscale and less bad for you than the traditional burger chains. It is literally the default choice for soccer moms ferrying kids among afternoon activities.

wffurr 7y ago
Fried chicken sandwiches are somehow healthy?
- toyg 7y ago
  Key word being “perceived”...
- cpitman 7y ago
  They also have grilled chicken variants, and wraps. Between the two, you can get an entree for a couple hundred calories.
- Spooky23 7y ago
  People believe that red meat is awful, unethical and destroying the planet. It’s sort of like how folks won’t eat pork.
  - ibejoeb 7y ago
    It goes in cycles. Remember only a few years ago when eggs were an epidemic, killing Americans daily. Dietary science really was awful, and probably still is comparatively weak. I think it's getting better though; I'm pretty convinced that sugars are bad.

froindt 7y ago

I'm an industrial engineer, so these sorts of questions fascinate me. My intuition is their revenue is so much higher because of a mix of higher service people are willing to pay for (almost casual versus definitively fast food), higher average cost per person, and cheaper inputs (chicken versus beef price per pound). # Speed of Service I've ordered Chick-fil-a and literally been handed my food before the credit was done processing. That's not the norm, but was surprising. They get fast casual pricing while still being able to complete orders in a fast food #Cost per Person Chick-fil-a doesn't have a value menu. As a quick reference, look at the menu prices for Chick-fil-a [1] and McDonald's [2]. It's not a perfect datasource, but it roughly aligns with what I've seen. At McDonald's you can get 2 cheeseburgers for $2. The cheapest sandwich at Chick-fil-a is listed at $3. Chick-fil-a doesn't have a "value menu" or "dollar menu" like other fast food chains do. # Menu Simplicity Chick-fil-a does a better job of keeping their menu simple. While it's not a direct effect on revenue, it would help training and there would probably be bigger containers of ingredients and fewer to reach over (reducing completion time). Compare the unique ingredients between McDonald's [3] and Chick-fil-a [4]. There are way more combinations with McDonald's than Chick-fil-a. Additional complexity to be dealt with behind the scenes (though I've heard they make it dead simple to learn how to make the food). Taco Bell can (or used to be) be noted for only having about 8-10 ingredients which were mixed and matched into their entire menu! [1] https://www.fastfoodmenuprices.com/chick-fil-a-prices/ https://www.fastfoodmenuprices.com/chick-fil-a-prices/ [2] https://www.fastfoodmenuprices.com/mcdonalds-prices/ https://www.fastfoodmenuprices.com/mcdonalds-prices/ [3] https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/full-menu.html https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/full-menu.html [4] https://www.chick-fil-a.com/OrderFood https://www.chick-fil-a.com/OrderFood

sixtypoundhound 7y ago
And ability to execute consistently across the chain. That's the real miracle here. Everyone else is hit or miss. I don't think I've ever seen a bad Chick-fil-A...
- Spooky23 7y ago
  They exist. The Chick Fil A outside of Hilton Head Island, SC was a total dump as of a few years ago. It closed.

dave5104 7y ago

One reason might be that in the US, there are close to 14,000 McDonald's locations, but only close to 2,400 Chick-Fil-A locations. If you want McDonald's you have almost 6 different locations to consider for every 1 Chick-Fil-A. In other words, the "per store" metric isn't as impressive when you look at the number of stores.

maxerickson 7y ago
Well, it depends on what your goals are. Maximizing overall revenue (the lots of stores model) isn't necessarily the best strategy.
- dave5104 7y ago
  Yea, it sucks for the franchisees, but seems to be a good deal for the corporate franchiser.

T-hawk 7y ago

An average like this doesn't necessarily mean the high end is good, it can also mean the absence of a low end dragging it down. An average like this means selectivity, avoiding out-of-the-way or oversaturated neighborhoods that would see less business.

lightedman 7y ago

Their prices are absurd for what you're getting. The regular CFA sandwich here (chicken, pickles, toasted butter bun) is $4.29 each. I can go to Gus Jr. (a local option) and get the same chicken sandwich (same amount of chicken, same bun with butter) with more pickles and lettuce, for $0.99.

jonas21 7y ago

Short answer: because both Chick-fil-A and McDonald's want it that way. Longer answer: McDonald's has chosen to optimize for total revenue, while Chick-fil-A has chosen to optimize for something more like ROI on each store. This is a direct consequence of the different franchise models, where McDonald's takes a cut of sales and doesn't have an ownership stake in each location, while Chick-fil-A take a cut of both sales and profits, and has ownership of the physical location. As dave5104 mentioned, there are over 14,000 McDonald's locations in the US vs around 2,000 Chick-fil-As. McDonald's has saturated the market to the point that individual McDonald's locations cannibalize the sales of other nearby locations. For example, there are 14 McDonald's locations within a 5-mile radius of where I live. If you closed down half of them, total revenue would probably drop some, but not anywhere near half. Many people who wanted McDonald's would just travel a little bit further to get to one. As a result, per-store revenue would go up. Per-store profit would go up by an even greater percentage since there are fixed costs per location. And if you closed the right number (which might be more or less than half), total profit would go up as well. This would be great for franchisees, but from McDonalds' perspective it's worse since total sales would decrease, and that's what they're getting a cut of. Chick-fil-A's model, where they take a cut of both sales and profits aligns their interests more with their franchisees.

privateSFacct 7y ago
Interesting some decades ago I think McDonald's did a study that led to something called the 4 minute McDonald's universe which was a distance they found people would go for spur of the moment purchasing. Obviously impractical, but this idea of optimizing for total revenue has been around for a bit I think.
- asdff 7y ago
  And it's not limited to mcdonalds. Starbucks is getting notorious for this. Here is an area by me with three starbii: https://goo.gl/maps/qR2XLLVYmqiyrHtLA https://goo.gl/maps/qR2XLLVYmqiyrHtLA One in the vons, directly across the street from one in the ralphs, and if you head north on vermont in this street view you will hit a burger king. Today that is a freestanding starbucks. Three starbucks locations in less than a square mile.