4 ms·

as far as i can see nokia could differentiate themselves a hell of alot more and with far more confidence with android then with ms win mobile. now nokia is de

by fungi 16y ago

as far as i can see nokia could differentiate themselves a hell of alot more and with far more confidence with android then with ms win mobile. now nokia is dependent on microsoft to let them differentiate. and while android is open source there is less scope for google to "play favorites" then with win mobile, i.e. there is "no freedom fork" anything, microsoft is perfectly within their rights to go play favorites with Samsung/HTC/Motorola (just as they are now apparently doing with nokia). but i have heard what you are saying a few times now so i would like to know why/how microsofts tightly controlled platform will deliver nokia greater power to differentiate themselves? edit: found this http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1992208&cid=35183600 http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1992208&cid=3... which does _partially_ cloud my puritanical open source views of the world.

jackvalentine 16y ago
I think when he said "play favourites" he was more referring to how one marque gets made the favourite for each major android release. Motorola for 2.0, HTC for 2.2, Samsung for 2.3, Motorola for 3.0 tablets etc... all the other manufacturers are effectively let out in the cold until the big launch is over. We have no idea exactly what the Nokia/Microsoft deal entails, but as a worst possibility they will get updates at the same time as other makers. I don't think Microsoft is going to delay updates for HTC/Samsung et al in favour of Nokia, but there will be something in the deal for Nokia.
- jsz0 16y ago
  Yes. Specifically the Motorola/Honeycomb deal. There were some unhappy Android tablet makers at CES. That plus Google dropping 2.3 source about 2 weeks before CES leaving so many companies showing off 'dated' 2.2 products on the floor -- not endearing. Practically speaking it may not be a major issue but I think Nokia has a little too much pride for that. You can bet good money Nokia will be showing off the first WM8 device.
jallmann 16y ago
Are you trolling? > as far as i can see nokia could differentiate themselves a hell of alot more and with far more confidence with android then with ms win mobile. GP had a whole bunch of reasons why going with MS is probably a better strategic decision for Nokia. You have given none to counter those. Regarding playing favorites: so what. That's business. Live by the sword, die by the sword. Could have made the same argument regarding favoritism about Symbian a few years ago before Nokia bought them out completely.
- fungi 16y ago
  > Are you trolling? no
jsz0 16y ago
Android may be open source but realistically how far can anyone diverge while maintaing compatibility, consistency, and the ability to push updates out in a timely fashion? At least with Microsoft they are entering a formal agreement. All these details have probably been worked out. Microsoft may have offered to let Nokia into the inner-circle of WM development. They may have agreed to have MS developers work very closely with Nokia for customizations. Hard to say without knowing all the details but it's doubtful Google would have agreed to the same terms since they simply don't need Nokia. It reminds me of this story about K-9 developers wanting to re-integrate some of their enhancements back into ASOP and Google's response was basically 'nahhh' or Google giving Motorola sweetheart access to Honeycomb while leaving other tablet makers moaning & groaning on the CES floor. Those types of things probably contributed to Nokia's choice. Nokia wants to be actively involved in OS development. Their own efforts failed. Nokia being a somewhat old fashion sort of company was probably not comfortable with the uncertainty behind Google's rather blackbox-ish control of Android. In an ironic way Microsoft was actually offering more flexibility and openness of development plus all the perks of free marketing dollars, joint promotions, and generally being treated like a first class citizen with a contract to define the exact terms of the relationship.
- fungi 16y ago
  > They may have agreed to have MS developers work very closely with Nokia for customizations. Hard to say without knowing all the details if thats true > In an ironic way Microsoft was actually offering more flexibility and openness of development then yes that would be the case. personally i doubt that microsoft gave up any significant control of win mobile and there has been little evidence to suggest it has. that said microsoft would not want nokia going on about how they get to do what they want with ms win mobile as that would only discourage investment in the platform by Samsung/HTC/LG who ms still need as it will be a good 18~24 months before nokia is shipping significant volumes.
  - ks 16y ago
    According to Engadget, "[Nokia] has been given the liberty to play around inside WP7 to its heart's content". http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2206238 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2206238

by fungi 16y ago

jackvalentine 16y ago

I think when he said "play favourites" he was more referring to how one marque gets made the favourite for each major android release. Motorola for 2.0, HTC for 2.2, Samsung for 2.3, Motorola for 3.0 tablets etc... all the other manufacturers are effectively let out in the cold until the big launch is over. We have no idea exactly what the Nokia/Microsoft deal entails, but as a worst possibility they will get updates at the same time as other makers. I don't think Microsoft is going to delay updates for HTC/Samsung et al in favour of Nokia, but there will be something in the deal for Nokia.

jsz0 16y ago
Yes. Specifically the Motorola/Honeycomb deal. There were some unhappy Android tablet makers at CES. That plus Google dropping 2.3 source about 2 weeks before CES leaving so many companies showing off 'dated' 2.2 products on the floor -- not endearing. Practically speaking it may not be a major issue but I think Nokia has a little too much pride for that. You can bet good money Nokia will be showing off the first WM8 device.

jallmann 16y ago

Are you trolling? > as far as i can see nokia could differentiate themselves a hell of alot more and with far more confidence with android then with ms win mobile. GP had a whole bunch of reasons why going with MS is probably a better strategic decision for Nokia. You have given none to counter those. Regarding playing favorites: so what. That's business. Live by the sword, die by the sword. Could have made the same argument regarding favoritism about Symbian a few years ago before Nokia bought them out completely.

fungi 16y ago
> Are you trolling? no

jsz0 16y ago

Android may be open source but realistically how far can anyone diverge while maintaing compatibility, consistency, and the ability to push updates out in a timely fashion? At least with Microsoft they are entering a formal agreement. All these details have probably been worked out. Microsoft may have offered to let Nokia into the inner-circle of WM development. They may have agreed to have MS developers work very closely with Nokia for customizations. Hard to say without knowing all the details but it's doubtful Google would have agreed to the same terms since they simply don't need Nokia. It reminds me of this story about K-9 developers wanting to re-integrate some of their enhancements back into ASOP and Google's response was basically 'nahhh' or Google giving Motorola sweetheart access to Honeycomb while leaving other tablet makers moaning & groaning on the CES floor. Those types of things probably contributed to Nokia's choice. Nokia wants to be actively involved in OS development. Their own efforts failed. Nokia being a somewhat old fashion sort of company was probably not comfortable with the uncertainty behind Google's rather blackbox-ish control of Android. In an ironic way Microsoft was actually offering more flexibility and openness of development plus all the perks of free marketing dollars, joint promotions, and generally being treated like a first class citizen with a contract to define the exact terms of the relationship.

fungi 16y ago
> They may have agreed to have MS developers work very closely with Nokia for customizations. Hard to say without knowing all the details if thats true > In an ironic way Microsoft was actually offering more flexibility and openness of development then yes that would be the case. personally i doubt that microsoft gave up any significant control of win mobile and there has been little evidence to suggest it has. that said microsoft would not want nokia going on about how they get to do what they want with ms win mobile as that would only discourage investment in the platform by Samsung/HTC/LG who ms still need as it will be a good 18~24 months before nokia is shipping significant volumes.
- ks 16y ago
  According to Engadget, "[Nokia] has been given the liberty to play around inside WP7 to its heart's content". http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2206238 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2206238