8 ms·

Introducing The Microsoft Puppet

59 points by atularora 16y ago

yuhong 16y ago
I first read about it on Techrights, back when I was still reading it. I think it dates back to when it was called "Boycott Novell".
- tzs 16y ago
  Boycott Novell/Techrights also has claimed that Microsoft has infiltrated and taken over: HP, NPR, the BBC, the Department of Education, the White House, VMWare, TED, Facebook, the French government, NBC, the New York Times, the Huffington Post, Samsung, Canonical, the United Nations, and a whole bunch of other companies, governments, newspapers, and magazines.
  - yuhong 16y ago
    To various extents and with varying effects, BTW.
mrkurt 16y ago
Gosh that seems like such an easy coup to pull off. I wonder why Microsoft hasn't stuffed more of their short tenure employees into management at other companies for discreet takeover purposes.
- yuhong 16y ago
  I remember the fiasco with Yahoo, where DOJ declared the Google/Yahoo deal anti-competitive. Unfortunately the problem was that they forgot that Yahoo was already not a real competitor anymore. Anyway, thanks to the deal's failure, the takeover by Carl Icann was allowed to proceed. And exactly that kind of coup happened during the takeover.
- yuhong 16y ago
  FYI: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2209338 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2209338
- Stormbringer 16y ago
  It's not even a new thing. Accenture and the other big accounting firms used to do this all the time.
barista 16y ago
I don't think it is tht simple. Nothing that was announced mentioned exclusivity either to MSFT or NOK. This means that they are open to walk away in GOOG's arms if this thing does not work out for them. Though the events make it seems like so. I think that's just a conspiracy theory.
- joe_the_user 16y ago
  I think there's a lot of frustration venting. I'm frustrated. Nokia's move leaves a lot of open source initiatives dangling as well as a lot of jobs lost. Maybe it's a harsh but necessary act to save the company or some part of it. But maybe it's just a harsh and foolish act which will cause in harm both the long and short term harm to all involved. I have to admit that I can't say for certain which it will be in the end. But I can understand how all those who fear being hurt by it would have a tendency to believe the later choice.
  - michaelbuckbee 16y ago
    Would the jobs and open source projects be in a better place if Android was chosen instead?
    - spudlyo 16y ago
      Perhaps. If Android was chosen Nokia could put many of their displaced Symbian developers to work on a Nokia application ecosystem and services platform. This would allow them to use Android without having to pay Google.
      - michaelbuckbee 16y ago
        It's my understanding that the payments to Google are for access to their built-in apps and services (without which an Android phone seems like something less).
    - barista 16y ago
      Exactly. All the pulic traded companies have one and only one goal. To maximize shareholder value or in short to make money. The open source tools, open standards are all just tools they use to get to the goal and earn some goodwill that they can use to make money.
jsz0 16y ago
I think the assumption that Android would be a 'easier and safer bet' is a bit shortsighted. Nokia would be just another Android device maker competing with dozens of companies offering basically the same exact product except it would have a Nokia logo and some Nokia skin installed. That might have worked 2 years ago but I think it's too late now. There are established players in the Android space. How can Nokia beat HTC or Motorola if they are essentially selling the same product? Things like Zune Pass, Xbox integration, and potentially tight integration with Windows client/server could be a big competitive advantage. These are things Nokia could not do on their own. Google isn't going to piss off Samsung/HTC/Motorola by playing favorites with Nokia either. Worst case is the partnership doesn't work out and 3 years from now Nokia is puking out Android handsets. Strategically I think it's better to take a big risk early and have a solid Plan B to fallback on. Nokia can afford to take the risk now.
- fungi 16y ago
  as far as i can see nokia could differentiate themselves a hell of alot more and with far more confidence with android then with ms win mobile. now nokia is dependent on microsoft to let them differentiate. and while android is open source there is less scope for google to "play favorites" then with win mobile, i.e. there is "no freedom fork" anything, microsoft is perfectly within their rights to go play favorites with Samsung/HTC/Motorola (just as they are now apparently doing with nokia). but i have heard what you are saying a few times now so i would like to know why/how microsofts tightly controlled platform will deliver nokia greater power to differentiate themselves? edit: found this http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1992208&cid=35183600 http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1992208&cid=3... which does _partially_ cloud my puritanical open source views of the world.
  - jackvalentine 16y ago
    I think when he said "play favourites" he was more referring to how one marque gets made the favourite for each major android release. Motorola for 2.0, HTC for 2.2, Samsung for 2.3, Motorola for 3.0 tablets etc... all the other manufacturers are effectively let out in the cold until the big launch is over. We have no idea exactly what the Nokia/Microsoft deal entails, but as a worst possibility they will get updates at the same time as other makers. I don't think Microsoft is going to delay updates for HTC/Samsung et al in favour of Nokia, but there will be something in the deal for Nokia.
xentronium 16y ago
What the hell is with all that anti-microsoft hatred. I'm really tired of reading articles about how MSFT took NOK over and are gonna screw them big time for free. It's like seventh or eighth article in hn top with that mood. Alliance with Microsoft seems to be the only sensible choice for Nokia at the moment. True story.
- podperson 16y ago
  Microsoft's "strategic partners" have done _so well_ in the past.
  - xuki 16y ago
    Apple, Intel.
- SwellJoe 16y ago
  "Alliance with Microsoft seems to be the only sensible choice for Nokia at the moment. True story." Many people disagree with you. Imagine that. I suspect you're not old enough to remember the fate of some other Microsoft "partners" of this sort.
  - rodh257 16y ago
    Got some examples?
    - recoiledsnake 16y ago
      Compaq, Dell, HP... Oh wait...wrong partner list.
    - p0ppe 16y ago
      Asymco has a fairly good list; http://www.asymco.com/2011/02/11/in-memoriam-microsofts-previous-strategic-mobile-partners/ http://www.asymco.com/2011/02/11/in-memoriam-microsofts-prev...
      - 16y ago
j_baker 16y ago
Thank god. I thought the Microsoft puppet was going to be the next Microsoft Bob/Clippy/Search dog.
yanw 16y ago
Word of the day: "Entryism".
rodh257 16y ago
This seems pretty far fetched to me. It's also likely that Elop just realizes (perhaps more so given his background) how much Microsoft wants to be a major player in this game, how much money and talent they're willing to throw at it and knows that there's an opportunity for someone to be there and 'ride the bear' as they go forward. (Ride the bear being a reference to what Gates/Ballmer said they did in Microsofts early days with IBM http://www.pbs.org/nerds/part2.html http://www.pbs.org/nerds/part2.html)
maxharris 16y ago
Nokia being Microsoft's puppet is not necessarily bad. Apple was NeXT's puppet, and this worked incredibly well. Perhaps this case will indeed lead to failure, but to show that, you have to point to some specific problem (and there seem to be many) with Microsoft and/or Nokia other than the fact that they are closely tied now.
- beagle3 16y ago
  Apple paid NeXT to take them over, and got their CEO installed in place of Apple's. A guy called Steve Jobs, you might have heard of him. NeXT knew what they were doing (hardware, software)-wise, and Apple at that point in time didn't. Whereas Microsoft have no idea how to phones (Kin, anyone?); the jury is still out on the phone software but it doesn't look good (iOS and Android are mopping the floor with WP7). And if Ballmer is installed as CEO of Nokia, I'm going to short it.
astrodust 16y ago
When SGI switched from IRIX to Windows, or when HP switched from HP/UX to Windows, or when DEC switched to Windows... What a trail of bodies. The *NIX community should've banded together to make a POSIX-like standard for graphical applications and they would've maintained their position as a viable platform. X isn't enough, it's too low-level. Something at least on par with OpenStep is required.

59 points by atularora 16y ago

I first read about it on Techrights, back when I was still reading it. I think it dates back to when it was called "Boycott Novell".

tzs 16y ago
Boycott Novell/Techrights also has claimed that Microsoft has infiltrated and taken over: HP, NPR, the BBC, the Department of Education, the White House, VMWare, TED, Facebook, the French government, NBC, the New York Times, the Huffington Post, Samsung, Canonical, the United Nations, and a whole bunch of other companies, governments, newspapers, and magazines.
- yuhong 16y ago
  To various extents and with varying effects, BTW.

mrkurt 16y ago

Gosh that seems like such an easy coup to pull off. I wonder why Microsoft hasn't stuffed more of their short tenure employees into management at other companies for discreet takeover purposes.

yuhong 16y ago
I remember the fiasco with Yahoo, where DOJ declared the Google/Yahoo deal anti-competitive. Unfortunately the problem was that they forgot that Yahoo was already not a real competitor anymore. Anyway, thanks to the deal's failure, the takeover by Carl Icann was allowed to proceed. And exactly that kind of coup happened during the takeover.
yuhong 16y ago
FYI: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2209338 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2209338
Stormbringer 16y ago
It's not even a new thing. Accenture and the other big accounting firms used to do this all the time.

barista 16y ago

I don't think it is tht simple. Nothing that was announced mentioned exclusivity either to MSFT or NOK. This means that they are open to walk away in GOOG's arms if this thing does not work out for them. Though the events make it seems like so. I think that's just a conspiracy theory.

joe_the_user 16y ago
I think there's a lot of frustration venting. I'm frustrated. Nokia's move leaves a lot of open source initiatives dangling as well as a lot of jobs lost. Maybe it's a harsh but necessary act to save the company or some part of it. But maybe it's just a harsh and foolish act which will cause in harm both the long and short term harm to all involved. I have to admit that I can't say for certain which it will be in the end. But I can understand how all those who fear being hurt by it would have a tendency to believe the later choice.
- michaelbuckbee 16y ago
  Would the jobs and open source projects be in a better place if Android was chosen instead?
  - spudlyo 16y ago
    Perhaps. If Android was chosen Nokia could put many of their displaced Symbian developers to work on a Nokia application ecosystem and services platform. This would allow them to use Android without having to pay Google.
    - michaelbuckbee 16y ago
      It's my understanding that the payments to Google are for access to their built-in apps and services (without which an Android phone seems like something less).
  - barista 16y ago
    Exactly. All the pulic traded companies have one and only one goal. To maximize shareholder value or in short to make money. The open source tools, open standards are all just tools they use to get to the goal and earn some goodwill that they can use to make money.

jsz0 16y ago

I think the assumption that Android would be a 'easier and safer bet' is a bit shortsighted. Nokia would be just another Android device maker competing with dozens of companies offering basically the same exact product except it would have a Nokia logo and some Nokia skin installed. That might have worked 2 years ago but I think it's too late now. There are established players in the Android space. How can Nokia beat HTC or Motorola if they are essentially selling the same product? Things like Zune Pass, Xbox integration, and potentially tight integration with Windows client/server could be a big competitive advantage. These are things Nokia could not do on their own. Google isn't going to piss off Samsung/HTC/Motorola by playing favorites with Nokia either. Worst case is the partnership doesn't work out and 3 years from now Nokia is puking out Android handsets. Strategically I think it's better to take a big risk early and have a solid Plan B to fallback on. Nokia can afford to take the risk now.

fungi 16y ago
as far as i can see nokia could differentiate themselves a hell of alot more and with far more confidence with android then with ms win mobile. now nokia is dependent on microsoft to let them differentiate. and while android is open source there is less scope for google to "play favorites" then with win mobile, i.e. there is "no freedom fork" anything, microsoft is perfectly within their rights to go play favorites with Samsung/HTC/Motorola (just as they are now apparently doing with nokia). but i have heard what you are saying a few times now so i would like to know why/how microsofts tightly controlled platform will deliver nokia greater power to differentiate themselves? edit: found this http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1992208&cid=35183600 http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1992208&cid=3... which does _partially_ cloud my puritanical open source views of the world.
- jackvalentine 16y ago
  I think when he said "play favourites" he was more referring to how one marque gets made the favourite for each major android release. Motorola for 2.0, HTC for 2.2, Samsung for 2.3, Motorola for 3.0 tablets etc... all the other manufacturers are effectively let out in the cold until the big launch is over. We have no idea exactly what the Nokia/Microsoft deal entails, but as a worst possibility they will get updates at the same time as other makers. I don't think Microsoft is going to delay updates for HTC/Samsung et al in favour of Nokia, but there will be something in the deal for Nokia.

xentronium 16y ago

What the hell is with all that anti-microsoft hatred. I'm really tired of reading articles about how MSFT took NOK over and are gonna screw them big time for free. It's like seventh or eighth article in hn top with that mood. Alliance with Microsoft seems to be the only sensible choice for Nokia at the moment. True story.

podperson 16y ago
Microsoft's "strategic partners" have done _so well_ in the past.
- xuki 16y ago
  Apple, Intel.
SwellJoe 16y ago
"Alliance with Microsoft seems to be the only sensible choice for Nokia at the moment. True story." Many people disagree with you. Imagine that. I suspect you're not old enough to remember the fate of some other Microsoft "partners" of this sort.
- rodh257 16y ago
  Got some examples?
  - recoiledsnake 16y ago
    Compaq, Dell, HP... Oh wait...wrong partner list.
  - p0ppe 16y ago
    Asymco has a fairly good list; http://www.asymco.com/2011/02/11/in-memoriam-microsofts-previous-strategic-mobile-partners/ http://www.asymco.com/2011/02/11/in-memoriam-microsofts-prev...
    - 16y ago

j_baker 16y ago

Thank god. I thought the Microsoft puppet was going to be the next Microsoft Bob/Clippy/Search dog.

yanw 16y ago

Word of the day: "Entryism".

rodh257 16y ago

This seems pretty far fetched to me. It's also likely that Elop just realizes (perhaps more so given his background) how much Microsoft wants to be a major player in this game, how much money and talent they're willing to throw at it and knows that there's an opportunity for someone to be there and 'ride the bear' as they go forward. (Ride the bear being a reference to what Gates/Ballmer said they did in Microsofts early days with IBM http://www.pbs.org/nerds/part2.html http://www.pbs.org/nerds/part2.html)

maxharris 16y ago

Nokia being Microsoft's puppet is not necessarily bad. Apple was NeXT's puppet, and this worked incredibly well. Perhaps this case will indeed lead to failure, but to show that, you have to point to some specific problem (and there seem to be many) with Microsoft and/or Nokia other than the fact that they are closely tied now.

beagle3 16y ago
Apple paid NeXT to take them over, and got their CEO installed in place of Apple's. A guy called Steve Jobs, you might have heard of him. NeXT knew what they were doing (hardware, software)-wise, and Apple at that point in time didn't. Whereas Microsoft have no idea how to phones (Kin, anyone?); the jury is still out on the phone software but it doesn't look good (iOS and Android are mopping the floor with WP7). And if Ballmer is installed as CEO of Nokia, I'm going to short it.

astrodust 16y ago

When SGI switched from IRIX to Windows, or when HP switched from HP/UX to Windows, or when DEC switched to Windows... What a trail of bodies. The *NIX community should've banded together to make a POSIX-like standard for graphical applications and they would've maintained their position as a viable platform. X isn't enough, it's too low-level. Something at least on par with OpenStep is required.