5 ms·

"I absolutely love this model." You are right, the model is great for some people in some cases. However, its a model where companies use software to lock you

"I absolutely love this model." You are right, the model is great for some people in some cases. However, its a model where companies use software to lock you out of being able to use your hardware. This is becoming extremely widespread. Consider also the farmers having to deal with the John Deere tractor licenses and being unable to maintain their own equipment (or Apple preventing you from being able to upgrade or repair your macs/iphones). The problem is that as the practice scales, people end up with no real property rights, and are just ensnared in a hundred terms of service agreements that they literally cannot escape while living a normal life. Lots of potentially dangerous things are harmless or even pleasant on a small scale.

SergeAx 7y ago
This is just not "your" hardware anymore, like the Kindle e-books you bought at Amazon are not your books or music you paid for to iTunes is not your music. This is not a sarcasm, I'm just trying to adapt myself to this brand new world and not to cringe when hearing words like this from myself or anyone else.
- CDSlice 7y ago
  Not to take away from your point, but music purchased from iTunes is your music. Purchased iTunes music is completely DRM free and can be played anyway you want by just copying the files. I'm pretty sure Amazon digital music purchases are DRM free as well.
sammorrowdrums 7y ago
While I agree I think that domestic printing is and should be increasingly obsolete so I opted for free tier printing specifically because I wanted a fallback (like keeping an old USB CD-ROM drive in case - like my canon camera firmware was not online and only on the CD they sent me). If you are occasionally forced to send in a paper form or your flight carrier insists on a printed boarding pass etc. it doesn't make economic sense to keep a printer functional at normal cost. I see HP free tier as a legacy support system. Ideally I'd print nothing. It's maddening how much bureaucracy still requires printing. But I agree that on devices that you depend on it is weird. I live in Amsterdam and have a subscription bike (and I pay for the fact that I will always have a replacement bike if any issues come up)... but I guess I wouldn't like a situation where I couldn't buy (and repair) a regular bike.
- nraynaud 7y ago
  For some engineering stuff it’s useful too, checking the size or fit of something.
- himlion 7y ago
  Really? I live in the Netherlands as well and haven't had to print something in ages. If I have to I'll just go to the library which is right next to the supermarket. I do write the address on envelopes by hand, which I would use a printer for if I'd own one.
  - sammorrowdrums 7y ago
    I'm a British expat and for example: - Some of my forms for UK electoral registration. - For 30% ruling the firm doing my application sent a form to print band return - I set up a sole trader company and had to print and bring form to my setup meeting. There were a few others too. The NL itself is generally good for digital services though. I only need to print a few things a year. Nothing frequent.
  - zeroonetwothree 7y ago
    Things I print: manuscripts to edit (easier to mark up), crosswords to solve, sheets for PnP RPGs, print and play games, patterns for children, etc
    - pbhjpbhj 7y ago
      I basically markup manuscripts 50% of my day, I live in OneNote (on Surface Pro). For MS I'm quite impressed, there's a few annoyances (and work won't let me try OneTastic) but overall it works -- I've not printed anything for my own use since I started using it.
  - reaperducer 7y ago
    The main thing I use my printer for is printing postage when I send packages. Is that not a thing in the Netherlands?
iforgotpassword 7y ago
He can just swap the current cartridge for a new one he bought in the store and it will work. If you cancel your library membership while you still got some books at home, do you think you can keep them? The guy in the twitter thread seems to be a complete idiot. It's a subscription model where you automatically get new cartridges via mail with a return envelope for the old one. And he's wondering what that monthly five bucks are for. Like, WTF. "Oh I bought this printer with a life long free supply of ink. Neat."
- maest 7y ago
  > complete idiot The guy has been criticised numerous times in this thread, yet nobody resorted to name calling. Please refrain from insulting people on public forums.
  - iforgotpassword 7y ago
    That was out of line, I apologize. Wasn't exactly at my calmest when I posted that.
kmarc 7y ago
You are right. Same as with vendor lock-in when a business chooses platforms (hello, Oracle). However, in this case, I like the idea that if tomorrow I wanted to print with Epson, I can sell / abandon this given HP printer and my future printing needs won't depend on my relationship with HP now. (OTOH, I am using HP printer/scanners for 10y now and this is the only brand I am satisfied with, especially for their Linux support). > the model is great for some people in some cases. I know that my needs might be not the same as others'. For me the model immediately clicked because of my preferences (environmental friendliness, automated ink orders - this one is super convenient since I travel a lot and in the past the ink ran out EXACTLY when I needed on that only weekend when I was finally at home, etc.) Anyhow, to me this only tells that this dude should probably rethink his finances if he has no idea what subscriptions he has. After that, maybe he should be aware what terms and conditions he accepted, instead of making a fool of himself on twitter. Also, sometimes the lengthy T&C is a trick to make you buy a shitty service with a lot of hidden fees. Now if you check out their webpage[1], it's crystal clear what it is about, and what are their prices. [1]: https://instantink.hpconnected.com/us/en/l/ https://instantink.hpconnected.com/us/en/l/
- scarface74 7y ago
  Now that I look at it. This is actually an excellent idea. I would go for the free plan in a heartbeat and pay $1 more for just the rare times I want to print some vacation photos.
baybal2 7y ago
This is a very devious business model, yet it is something that HBR reading PHBs seem to be completely obsessed now: People in the industry it "Product as a Service": you buy a widget, but you don't own it, and have to keep paying the seller for the right to use it. Just google: instantInk and scam
eloisant 7y ago
That's why when you buy an HP printer, you can choose whether you use Instant Ink or buy your cartridges, the old fashioned way.
scarface74 7y ago
However, its a model where companies use software to lock you out of being able to use your hardware. It does no such thing. He could send the subscription ink cartridge back and buy a regular cartridge for his printer.
simlevesque 7y ago
Would you say that a pinball machine uses it's software to lock it's hardwsre if you don't play ?
JadoJodo 7y ago
> However, its a model where companies use software to lock you out of being able to use your hardware. To be clear: Anyone using HP Instant Ink (II) can cancel II and buy a non-II cartridge and be on their merry way. As noted in other parts of this post: The only thing OP was blocked from doing was using an II cartridge after he stopped paying for the II service. Disclaimer: I do agree the tractor licensing situation is not good, but it's also not the same as this situation.

SergeAx 7y ago

This is just not "your" hardware anymore, like the Kindle e-books you bought at Amazon are not your books or music you paid for to iTunes is not your music. This is not a sarcasm, I'm just trying to adapt myself to this brand new world and not to cringe when hearing words like this from myself or anyone else.

CDSlice 7y ago
Not to take away from your point, but music purchased from iTunes is your music. Purchased iTunes music is completely DRM free and can be played anyway you want by just copying the files. I'm pretty sure Amazon digital music purchases are DRM free as well.

sammorrowdrums 7y ago

While I agree I think that domestic printing is and should be increasingly obsolete so I opted for free tier printing specifically because I wanted a fallback (like keeping an old USB CD-ROM drive in case - like my canon camera firmware was not online and only on the CD they sent me). If you are occasionally forced to send in a paper form or your flight carrier insists on a printed boarding pass etc. it doesn't make economic sense to keep a printer functional at normal cost. I see HP free tier as a legacy support system. Ideally I'd print nothing. It's maddening how much bureaucracy still requires printing. But I agree that on devices that you depend on it is weird. I live in Amsterdam and have a subscription bike (and I pay for the fact that I will always have a replacement bike if any issues come up)... but I guess I wouldn't like a situation where I couldn't buy (and repair) a regular bike.

nraynaud 7y ago
For some engineering stuff it’s useful too, checking the size or fit of something.
himlion 7y ago
Really? I live in the Netherlands as well and haven't had to print something in ages. If I have to I'll just go to the library which is right next to the supermarket. I do write the address on envelopes by hand, which I would use a printer for if I'd own one.
- sammorrowdrums 7y ago
  I'm a British expat and for example: - Some of my forms for UK electoral registration. - For 30% ruling the firm doing my application sent a form to print band return - I set up a sole trader company and had to print and bring form to my setup meeting. There were a few others too. The NL itself is generally good for digital services though. I only need to print a few things a year. Nothing frequent.
- zeroonetwothree 7y ago
  Things I print: manuscripts to edit (easier to mark up), crosswords to solve, sheets for PnP RPGs, print and play games, patterns for children, etc
  - pbhjpbhj 7y ago
    I basically markup manuscripts 50% of my day, I live in OneNote (on Surface Pro). For MS I'm quite impressed, there's a few annoyances (and work won't let me try OneTastic) but overall it works -- I've not printed anything for my own use since I started using it.
- reaperducer 7y ago
  The main thing I use my printer for is printing postage when I send packages. Is that not a thing in the Netherlands?

iforgotpassword 7y ago

He can just swap the current cartridge for a new one he bought in the store and it will work. If you cancel your library membership while you still got some books at home, do you think you can keep them? The guy in the twitter thread seems to be a complete idiot. It's a subscription model where you automatically get new cartridges via mail with a return envelope for the old one. And he's wondering what that monthly five bucks are for. Like, WTF. "Oh I bought this printer with a life long free supply of ink. Neat."

maest 7y ago
> complete idiot The guy has been criticised numerous times in this thread, yet nobody resorted to name calling. Please refrain from insulting people on public forums.
- iforgotpassword 7y ago
  That was out of line, I apologize. Wasn't exactly at my calmest when I posted that.

kmarc 7y ago

You are right. Same as with vendor lock-in when a business chooses platforms (hello, Oracle). However, in this case, I like the idea that if tomorrow I wanted to print with Epson, I can sell / abandon this given HP printer and my future printing needs won't depend on my relationship with HP now. (OTOH, I am using HP printer/scanners for 10y now and this is the only brand I am satisfied with, especially for their Linux support). > the model is great for some people in some cases. I know that my needs might be not the same as others'. For me the model immediately clicked because of my preferences (environmental friendliness, automated ink orders - this one is super convenient since I travel a lot and in the past the ink ran out EXACTLY when I needed on that only weekend when I was finally at home, etc.) Anyhow, to me this only tells that this dude should probably rethink his finances if he has no idea what subscriptions he has. After that, maybe he should be aware what terms and conditions he accepted, instead of making a fool of himself on twitter. Also, sometimes the lengthy T&C is a trick to make you buy a shitty service with a lot of hidden fees. Now if you check out their webpage[1], it's crystal clear what it is about, and what are their prices. [1]: https://instantink.hpconnected.com/us/en/l/ https://instantink.hpconnected.com/us/en/l/

scarface74 7y ago
Now that I look at it. This is actually an excellent idea. I would go for the free plan in a heartbeat and pay $1 more for just the rare times I want to print some vacation photos.

baybal2 7y ago

This is a very devious business model, yet it is something that HBR reading PHBs seem to be completely obsessed now: People in the industry it "Product as a Service": you buy a widget, but you don't own it, and have to keep paying the seller for the right to use it. Just google: instantInk and scam

eloisant 7y ago

That's why when you buy an HP printer, you can choose whether you use Instant Ink or buy your cartridges, the old fashioned way.

scarface74 7y ago

However, its a model where companies use software to lock you out of being able to use your hardware. It does no such thing. He could send the subscription ink cartridge back and buy a regular cartridge for his printer.

simlevesque 7y ago

Would you say that a pinball machine uses it's software to lock it's hardwsre if you don't play ?

JadoJodo 7y ago

> However, its a model where companies use software to lock you out of being able to use your hardware. To be clear: Anyone using HP Instant Ink (II) can cancel II and buy a non-II cartridge and be on their merry way. As noted in other parts of this post: The only thing OP was blocked from doing was using an II cartridge after he stopped paying for the II service. Disclaimer: I do agree the tractor licensing situation is not good, but it's also not the same as this situation.