15 ms·

Cartridge cannot be used until printer is enrolled in HP Instant Ink

289 points by pionerkotik 7y ago

Havoc 7y ago
I just print my stuff at the office - bunch of massive enterprise printers there. Home printers don't make sense to me on cost, time & scale. Then again not all employers are cool with incidental personal use.
- tomatocracy 7y ago
  Some enterprise printers can be set up to keep a copy of every page they print (and scan), at least for a period of time. Bear that in mind if any of what you print is something you'd consider sensitive.
  - Havoc 7y ago
    Thanks. Yeah not too worried about it to be honest. They're more worried about me leaving so there is no way they'll pick a fight over trivial stuff
  - milankragujevic 7y ago
    Printers at my work place are network only, and the server keeps copies of everything scanned and printed. Every user logs in to the printer with a 6 or 9 digit PIN and chooses which document to print or where to store the scanned file. You can encrypt the file and decrypt on the printer, I'm not sure if the printer returns the key to the server for later analysis.
    - Havoc 7y ago
      >Printers at my work place are network only Think you're misunderstanding OP. This applies even to keycard/pin printers. Basically all those big fat enterprise printers have harddrives in them that capture prints. Really don't get why, but apparently that's a fairly universal thing in enterprise printers. As best as I can tell even IT dept isn't always aware of this so a lot of them get sold/disposed with that hdd in it....
      - milankragujevic 7y ago
        > and the server keeps copies of everything scanned and printed. The end result is the same, it's all logged and stored.
chiefalchemist 7y ago
I bought an Instant Ink printer in 3Q 2019. I don't print much so a free 10 pages per month (on a sale priced all-in-one) appeals to me. My biggest concern is privacy / security. In theory HP - or someone else? - can now see anything I print/scan/copy. I'm still not sure I'm comfortable with the idea.
mgiannopoulos 7y ago
Was he tricked into buying a an ink cartridges subscription and hadn’t noticed he was paying for one?
- sixothree 7y ago
  On top of the fact that he bought an inkjet printer in the first place, which seems silly enough in this day and age.
  - sebazzz 7y ago
    I bought a quite expensive (300 euro) color laser printer about 4 years ago (a HP, but I'm happy with it). I have never replaced the toner, but do need to print from time to time. If I had bought an inkjet printer I'm pretty sure I would have spent more on cartridges by now. Mostly because cartridges dry out. Not on HP printers, but on some, it causes the printer to fail permanently too if a cartridge is dry (Epson comes to mind).
    - sammorrowdrums 7y ago
      Well instant ink has a free tier. So I have bought an $80 inkjet and then payed a total of about $5 on ink since then when I went over the free limit. Across about 3 years so far. But HP spy on me via my printer.
  - slim 7y ago
    epson ink printers have a cheap cost per color printed page since ink is sold in bottles
  - detaro 7y ago
    It's not quite as bad anymore as it was a few years ago. Inkjets have become competitive again in quite a few domains, with pricing now being a lot less silly.
- eloisant 7y ago
  It's really a mystery for me how he got his subscription without noticing it. By default I trust people's good faith but this time I'm really wondering whether he was really surprised, or if he knew what he was doing but feigned it for Internet fame. I have an HP printer, I use Instant Ink because I chose to. By default it just works like a regular printer, you buy cartridges and there is no subscription to pay.
teruakohatu 7y ago
This service seems to send a new ink cartridge when the current cartridge is running low. The monthly price depends on how much you print, and there is a free tier that allows for 15 pages/month but you will be charged $1/10 pages if you print more than 15 pages. It seems you need to provide a credit card even for the free tier. https://instantink.hpconnected.com/ https://instantink.hpconnected.com/ https://support.hp.com/nz-en/document/c03767640 https://support.hp.com/nz-en/document/c03767640 They seem to brick your cartridge to prevent the plan being cancelled just after they send you a cartridge, which could be done on the free tier. I don't like it in theory but it makes sense they would disable it.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
jackson1way 7y ago
I don‘t understand why people keep buying these inkjet scam printers. It‘s been like this for almost 2 decades. That‘s about the time I switched to laser printers. Currently I equipped myself and my family with a Brother HL 3152CDW. I got it for around 160-180€. The included toners print 1-2k pages. A new toner does 2-2,5k and costs around 60€ per color (genuine Brother) or around 50-60€ for a 4-color-toner set from noname brands. We have the printer since maybe 3-4 years and had to buy 1 black toner. I think I got a noname cartridge for around 25€. If you want a smaller device and save a little money, get a b/w laser printer for less than 100€. If I need to print photos, I go to a store with instant printing kiosks. It takes a few minutes to print dozens of photos and it‘s cheap, around 0,20-0,30€ per print (10x15cm). I hope laser printers will never become such a scam product like inkjet...
- romwell 7y ago
  >I don‘t understand why people keep buying these inkjet scam printers >If I need to print photos, I go to a store with instant printing kiosks. Your solution to inkjet printer ownership is... paying to use one. "I don't get why people keep buying cars. When I need to use one, I just hail an Uber."
  - pergadad 7y ago
    No the solution is that inkjet is not needed except for a few rare moments where it delivers better results. I have an oki laser colour printer, quality is on par with any inkjet I've seen except professional photo printers.
  - Piskvorrr 7y ago
    "Don't do it then" might be the most reasonable option,depending on the frequency of use. If I had to buy a color printer for all the color printing I did during the last decade, it still would have cost me at least 10x more than paying through the nose for each printout - and that's for a cheap printer, never mind maintenance and the quality of the results. In other words, ownership makes sense only from some level of usage.
  - GordonS 7y ago
kmarc 7y ago
Yes. This is how it works, this is what he clicked the button "I agree" for. He could have chosen the old way and buying the cartridges himself on a regular basis, but he chose the subscription model and now he wines about it. What you need to understand about the subscription model is that you DON'T own the cartridge and you DON'T pay for the cartridge. You pay for printed pages. If the ink runs out, the printer automatically orders a set of new ones, for no additional cost. You receive a package to your preferred postal address, that contains the new ink and a sealable, labeled, post-stamped bag in which you will put the old ones and send it back to HP. I absolutely love this model. I pay the minimal 2USD for it (if I exceed the monthly printable 50 pages, I get another 10p/$1, or upgrade my subscription. Unused quota accumulates up to 100p), and I get a monthly email about the detailed pricing. Also, this way the used cartridges (dangerous waste) are handled properly and an environmentally friendly way.
- vl 7y ago
  On top of that companies make refillable inkjets now. I own Epson like this - runs out of ink, add more ink from the bottle. I’m completely satisfied because there is no cartridge nonsense. In theory I can use cheaper non-Epson ink, but I don’t bother since cost is reasonable.
  - asdff 7y ago
    I bet that epson still has a programmed death event and will start barking about the print head after x number of pages. We needed an open source printer yesterday, but of course the priorities aren't there because it is just a printer after all.
    - vl 7y ago
      Nay, they just sell it at full unsubsidized price, it’s not cheap.
      - sleavey 7y ago
        What's the model?
Lagogarda 7y ago
$64,000 question here is-why are you still using Inkjet Printer?
- nightfly 7y ago
  For some hobby stuff inkjet is just what you need. Not everything works with laser printers.
- vetrom 7y ago
  Quality printmaking on heavyweight papers.
sammorrowdrums 7y ago
The cartridges are also special high capacity ones, but essentially you pay for the subscription to use the cartridges (which are sent for free automatically) at the cost of your data. Page limits are defined by the tier you are on. It would not make sense to allow the user to continue using them out of, because their retail price is generally above the subscription costs, so it would otherwise allow people to keep subscribing and cancelling.
- sammorrowdrums 7y ago
  I should clarify. It's in the contract you're meant to send them back to HP. They have a postage paid bag to return them in. That's true when they run out but also when you cancel.
sleavey 7y ago
I've always wondered why someone hasn't started a company making expensive but fixable printers with ink reservoirs that can be refilled from bottles. You could charge 10x more than what HP and co charge for the hardware, and sell replacement parts and repair services to sustain the business. Surely you could carve out a niche of consumers disgruntled with the current ink cartel and it would look good in the modern age by cutting down on people buying new throwaway printers when they run out of ink.
- pas 7y ago
  According to this[0] comment Epson does exactly that! [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22083308 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22083308
  - sleavey 7y ago
    Nice. But I still dream of the day we make open source printer hardware and software with refillable ink and replaceable/repairable parts!
blackhaz 7y ago
Great so many people consider Brother. A year ago I've had enough of the mainstream printer mafia and thought I need to support a different manufacturer. Got DCP-J772DW. It's an inkjet, but feels well built and cartridges last. Also, the Linux CUPS driver is easy to adapt for FreeBSD. There is a HOWTO on FreeBSD forums if anyone considers going this way.
veselin 7y ago
This model is perfectly good. However, the laws are still outdated with respect to it. Here are simple proposals: - hp (or Apple) can sign you up for this, but then they cannot call it "buy" in the shop. Rent an iPhone (Android phone) or install a printer may be what it should be. - they need to inform you about the price. In EU a shop cannot write prices without VAT. Install for X EUR + Y EUR per month is what should be on the sticker. - finally, there is the antitrust. If somebody tries to replace Y with ads, this must be legally part of the price. Higher price for consumers is what makes a good reason to split a monopoly.
- estebarb 7y ago
  Please, don't tell HP Inc employees that they are going to pass through another split.
- TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
  You're not renting the printer, you actually buy it. The subscription rental service is for the cartridges, and you always have the option of buying regular non-rental cartridges instead of using the subscription.
- samatman 7y ago
  Is there in fact an Apple program that amounts to renting? I'm only aware of the iPhone upgrade program, where you pay monthly and can get a new phone once a year after turning your old one in. But if you pay for two years, the phone is yours, outright. I'm a buy-with-cash kind of guy, but the above isn't rental and shouldn't be described as such. It's a payment plan with some incentives designed to keep iPhone sales up.
spicymaki 7y ago
I have an HP Envy 7800 series printer that is not enrolled in Instant Ink and it works just fine. HP asked me once during driver installation to subscribe to the subscription service, I said no, and it has not asked me again. One technical advantage HP has over Brother is the printer head is integrated into the cartridge. I previously owned an expensive Brother office inkjet printer and the printer head got into a bad state where no matter how many times I cleaned the head or replaced ink I had streaks. Another issue with Brother is it would not let me print black and white if I did not have color ink installed (HP does). Compared with the Epson EcoTank is there is an unused ink reservoir (called an ink pad) that will collect ink during cleaning cycles and other operations. Once this reservoir is full the printer has reached end of life (and Epson does not recommend servicing it). The EcoTank is really expensive as well.
scarface74 7y ago
There’s a lot of nerd rage about nothing. He bought an ink cartridge with a subscription plan. When you stop paying the subscription it stops working. He could cancel the subscription, send the cartridge back and replace it with a normal cartridge. I have a mix of music I bought from iTunes before Apple Music and Apple Music. If I cancel my subscription, I don’t have access to the subscription music but I keep access to the music I bought - DRM free. What’s the difference?
- marcusverus 7y ago
  But he already paid for the ink, right? So Apple Music seems like a bad comparison. If you stop paying for Apple Music, you lose access to the service that provides the music. In an apples to apples comparison, this would mean that he no longer has access to the service that provides the ink. But that is not what happened. HP reached out and inactivated a physical product that had already been delivered to him. For an accurate comparison, say you signed up for a subscription of laundry soap through Amazon. Later, upon cancelling your subscription, Amazon not only cancelled your subscription service, but they reached out and (magically) mechanically sealed your last container of laundry soap, even though you had paid for it via the subscription cost. This isn't the same as passively turning off a service. This is actively breaking something that someone already paid for. Am I missing something?
  - detaro 7y ago
    He paid for a service that allows him to print X pages per month. As part of that service, HP provides ink cartridges so you can actually print those pages. He cancelled that service, so he can't use the ink provided for that service anymore. If the service was "we'll send you an ink cartridge every X months", then it'd be different. (One clear sign that the X pages are really the thing offered, outside the contract language: it doesn't matter what you print. If you print only full-page photos, you use a lot more ink than someone only printing letters, but for either HP will supply ink cartridges as needed) To take your laundry soap example: You haven't subscribed to laundry soap, you've subscribed to a "2 washes per week" service, as part of which Amazon supplies you the soap you need for those washes. If you stop paying for that, you can't use the supplied material for more washes.
ohahn15t36w 7y ago
Reminds me of some of Netgear's newer switches that don't let you access much of the configuration until you register it to a Netgear account... https://kb.netgear.com/000061528/GS108Tv3-GS110TPv3-GS110TPP-Firmware-Version-7-0-2-5 https://kb.netgear.com/000061528/GS108Tv3-GS110TPv3-GS110TPP...
milankragujevic 7y ago
InkJet printers are a scam. And not [only] because of the "genuine" cartridge lock in, but because they are trash devices. I had 2 "low-end" HP printers that would die after 2 years (warranty period). The way they would die is very interesting: The printer would receive the document to print, pull in paper, start priting but not pull the paper so everything would get printed on one line. Then, when it is done printing, it would move the paper properly, in steps, without printing anything, until it's "done", when it would eject the paper. That is a software problem, because 1. it can pull the paper precisely, and 2. it can print. It just desynchronizes the pulling of paper with the printing. After that, I got another HP printer that was 3 times the price, which works right now, but it's absolutely trash quality. It cost 100€, and I'm comparing it's color print quality to a color laser printer at work, from Konica Minolta, which is actually 5 times the price, the but the quality, speed of printing, reliability and cost of maintenance (and the fact it's been printing hundreds of pages per day for 5 years without duying yet). InkJet printers are awful in quality, cost more to own, require regular maintenance, break or pause in critical moments ("Please wait while the printer performs head alingment", "The printer is priting a test page. When done, please scan the page and click OK to continue. ", "The printer is cleaning the head surface. Please wait. This may use up a large amount of ink. ") and slower than laser printers. This is not mentioning the fact that print quality in black is atrocious on cheaper InkJets, which specify a huge resolution but in reality the dots are misaligned and fuzzy. Basically, awful devices. Printers in general are awful devices, but consumer InkJets are a whole different level. Edit: I just checked, Konica Minolta in Belgrade (Serbia), represented by Konica Minolta Business Solutions Europe GmbH, literally only does "Industrial InkJet printers" now, and has subscription models for whole printers, where a company pays a monthly subscription for a printer, and has that printer maintained on-premise, replaced with no downtime, refilled and has some level of additional support. I'm not sure that's what my workplace uses.
- semi-extrinsic 7y ago
  My conclusion is that unless you're printing 50+ large photos or hundreds of 4"x6" pics per year, the total cost of just ordering prints from a print shop is much lower than owning an inkjet.
nexuist 7y ago
Why are people still using printers at all? I cannot fathom any reason outside of art / photos why you would want to print a document when you can view it on just about every device available to you. When was the last time you were in a room without a screen? A room where nobody had a smartphone, tablet, laptop, or TV? Do you view Word documents in the shower? It seems like from a financial and environmental perspective, printing out forms is exceedingly wasteful.
- detaro 7y ago
  1) art/photos 2) sending letters 3) handing in forms to government services etc 4) paper is a lot more practical to just stick somewhere/hand around for whoever to use, e.g. checklists 5) making signs/labels for stuff 6) handing in homework
  - brokensegue 7y ago
    I agree with all that though only the first option definitely needs color (inkjet) printing.
    - detaro 7y ago
      Sure, but parent was only asking about "printers".
      - brokensegue 7y ago
        yeah i was trying to make a charitable re-interpretation of the parent
    - pbhjpbhj 7y ago
      We have an inkjet because we bought it for photo/poster printing. Buying a second printer, just for documents, would be overkill. I've intended to have a black laser and get colour printing at the store, but am waiting for the printer to die.
teh_infallible 7y ago
Even when you buy HP cartridges, the printer can detect how old they are, and they arbitrarily stop printing well after a certain amount of time. A cartridge absolutely does not guarantee s certain number of printed pages
bookAlot 7y ago
Scary! Maybe the bushfire will pull down the building with this rule in place.
mike50 7y ago
Computer illiterate gets ripped off. News at 11.
tripzilch 7y ago
How do you get into a situation where you're automatically paying $5/mo for your printer and don't know about it?
rhabarba 7y ago
I wonder how this is different from literally any other subscription service like Spotify and Netflix: Your subscription has expired, so the owner of the goods wants you to stop using his stuff.

289 points by pionerkotik 7y ago

I just print my stuff at the office - bunch of massive enterprise printers there. Home printers don't make sense to me on cost, time & scale. Then again not all employers are cool with incidental personal use.

tomatocracy 7y ago
Some enterprise printers can be set up to keep a copy of every page they print (and scan), at least for a period of time. Bear that in mind if any of what you print is something you'd consider sensitive.
- Havoc 7y ago
  Thanks. Yeah not too worried about it to be honest. They're more worried about me leaving so there is no way they'll pick a fight over trivial stuff
- milankragujevic 7y ago
  Printers at my work place are network only, and the server keeps copies of everything scanned and printed. Every user logs in to the printer with a 6 or 9 digit PIN and chooses which document to print or where to store the scanned file. You can encrypt the file and decrypt on the printer, I'm not sure if the printer returns the key to the server for later analysis.
  - Havoc 7y ago
    >Printers at my work place are network only Think you're misunderstanding OP. This applies even to keycard/pin printers. Basically all those big fat enterprise printers have harddrives in them that capture prints. Really don't get why, but apparently that's a fairly universal thing in enterprise printers. As best as I can tell even IT dept isn't always aware of this so a lot of them get sold/disposed with that hdd in it....
    - milankragujevic 7y ago
      > and the server keeps copies of everything scanned and printed. The end result is the same, it's all logged and stored.

chiefalchemist 7y ago

I bought an Instant Ink printer in 3Q 2019. I don't print much so a free 10 pages per month (on a sale priced all-in-one) appeals to me. My biggest concern is privacy / security. In theory HP - or someone else? - can now see anything I print/scan/copy. I'm still not sure I'm comfortable with the idea.

mgiannopoulos 7y ago

Was he tricked into buying a an ink cartridges subscription and hadn’t noticed he was paying for one?

sixothree 7y ago
On top of the fact that he bought an inkjet printer in the first place, which seems silly enough in this day and age.
- sebazzz 7y ago
  I bought a quite expensive (300 euro) color laser printer about 4 years ago (a HP, but I'm happy with it). I have never replaced the toner, but do need to print from time to time. If I had bought an inkjet printer I'm pretty sure I would have spent more on cartridges by now. Mostly because cartridges dry out. Not on HP printers, but on some, it causes the printer to fail permanently too if a cartridge is dry (Epson comes to mind).
  - sammorrowdrums 7y ago
    Well instant ink has a free tier. So I have bought an $80 inkjet and then payed a total of about $5 on ink since then when I went over the free limit. Across about 3 years so far. But HP spy on me via my printer.
- slim 7y ago
  epson ink printers have a cheap cost per color printed page since ink is sold in bottles
- detaro 7y ago
  It's not quite as bad anymore as it was a few years ago. Inkjets have become competitive again in quite a few domains, with pricing now being a lot less silly.
eloisant 7y ago
It's really a mystery for me how he got his subscription without noticing it. By default I trust people's good faith but this time I'm really wondering whether he was really surprised, or if he knew what he was doing but feigned it for Internet fame. I have an HP printer, I use Instant Ink because I chose to. By default it just works like a regular printer, you buy cartridges and there is no subscription to pay.

teruakohatu 7y ago

This service seems to send a new ink cartridge when the current cartridge is running low. The monthly price depends on how much you print, and there is a free tier that allows for 15 pages/month but you will be charged $1/10 pages if you print more than 15 pages. It seems you need to provide a credit card even for the free tier. https://instantink.hpconnected.com/ https://instantink.hpconnected.com/ https://support.hp.com/nz-en/document/c03767640 https://support.hp.com/nz-en/document/c03767640 They seem to brick your cartridge to prevent the plan being cancelled just after they send you a cartridge, which could be done on the free tier. I don't like it in theory but it makes sense they would disable it.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

jackson1way 7y ago

I don‘t understand why people keep buying these inkjet scam printers. It‘s been like this for almost 2 decades. That‘s about the time I switched to laser printers. Currently I equipped myself and my family with a Brother HL 3152CDW. I got it for around 160-180€. The included toners print 1-2k pages. A new toner does 2-2,5k and costs around 60€ per color (genuine Brother) or around 50-60€ for a 4-color-toner set from noname brands. We have the printer since maybe 3-4 years and had to buy 1 black toner. I think I got a noname cartridge for around 25€. If you want a smaller device and save a little money, get a b/w laser printer for less than 100€. If I need to print photos, I go to a store with instant printing kiosks. It takes a few minutes to print dozens of photos and it‘s cheap, around 0,20-0,30€ per print (10x15cm). I hope laser printers will never become such a scam product like inkjet...

romwell 7y ago
>I don‘t understand why people keep buying these inkjet scam printers >If I need to print photos, I go to a store with instant printing kiosks. Your solution to inkjet printer ownership is... paying to use one. "I don't get why people keep buying cars. When I need to use one, I just hail an Uber."
- pergadad 7y ago
  No the solution is that inkjet is not needed except for a few rare moments where it delivers better results. I have an oki laser colour printer, quality is on par with any inkjet I've seen except professional photo printers.
- Piskvorrr 7y ago
  "Don't do it then" might be the most reasonable option,depending on the frequency of use. If I had to buy a color printer for all the color printing I did during the last decade, it still would have cost me at least 10x more than paying through the nose for each printout - and that's for a cheap printer, never mind maintenance and the quality of the results. In other words, ownership makes sense only from some level of usage.
- GordonS 7y ago

kmarc 7y ago

Yes. This is how it works, this is what he clicked the button "I agree" for. He could have chosen the old way and buying the cartridges himself on a regular basis, but he chose the subscription model and now he wines about it. What you need to understand about the subscription model is that you DON'T own the cartridge and you DON'T pay for the cartridge. You pay for printed pages. If the ink runs out, the printer automatically orders a set of new ones, for no additional cost. You receive a package to your preferred postal address, that contains the new ink and a sealable, labeled, post-stamped bag in which you will put the old ones and send it back to HP. I absolutely love this model. I pay the minimal 2USD for it (if I exceed the monthly printable 50 pages, I get another 10p/$1, or upgrade my subscription. Unused quota accumulates up to 100p), and I get a monthly email about the detailed pricing. Also, this way the used cartridges (dangerous waste) are handled properly and an environmentally friendly way.

vl 7y ago
On top of that companies make refillable inkjets now. I own Epson like this - runs out of ink, add more ink from the bottle. I’m completely satisfied because there is no cartridge nonsense. In theory I can use cheaper non-Epson ink, but I don’t bother since cost is reasonable.
- asdff 7y ago
  I bet that epson still has a programmed death event and will start barking about the print head after x number of pages. We needed an open source printer yesterday, but of course the priorities aren't there because it is just a printer after all.
  - vl 7y ago
    Nay, they just sell it at full unsubsidized price, it’s not cheap.
    - sleavey 7y ago
      What's the model?

Lagogarda 7y ago

$64,000 question here is-why are you still using Inkjet Printer?

nightfly 7y ago
For some hobby stuff inkjet is just what you need. Not everything works with laser printers.
vetrom 7y ago
Quality printmaking on heavyweight papers.

sammorrowdrums 7y ago

The cartridges are also special high capacity ones, but essentially you pay for the subscription to use the cartridges (which are sent for free automatically) at the cost of your data. Page limits are defined by the tier you are on. It would not make sense to allow the user to continue using them out of, because their retail price is generally above the subscription costs, so it would otherwise allow people to keep subscribing and cancelling.

sammorrowdrums 7y ago
I should clarify. It's in the contract you're meant to send them back to HP. They have a postage paid bag to return them in. That's true when they run out but also when you cancel.

sleavey 7y ago

I've always wondered why someone hasn't started a company making expensive but fixable printers with ink reservoirs that can be refilled from bottles. You could charge 10x more than what HP and co charge for the hardware, and sell replacement parts and repair services to sustain the business. Surely you could carve out a niche of consumers disgruntled with the current ink cartel and it would look good in the modern age by cutting down on people buying new throwaway printers when they run out of ink.

pas 7y ago
According to this[0] comment Epson does exactly that! [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22083308 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22083308
- sleavey 7y ago
  Nice. But I still dream of the day we make open source printer hardware and software with refillable ink and replaceable/repairable parts!

blackhaz 7y ago

Great so many people consider Brother. A year ago I've had enough of the mainstream printer mafia and thought I need to support a different manufacturer. Got DCP-J772DW. It's an inkjet, but feels well built and cartridges last. Also, the Linux CUPS driver is easy to adapt for FreeBSD. There is a HOWTO on FreeBSD forums if anyone considers going this way.

veselin 7y ago

This model is perfectly good. However, the laws are still outdated with respect to it. Here are simple proposals: - hp (or Apple) can sign you up for this, but then they cannot call it "buy" in the shop. Rent an iPhone (Android phone) or install a printer may be what it should be. - they need to inform you about the price. In EU a shop cannot write prices without VAT. Install for X EUR + Y EUR per month is what should be on the sticker. - finally, there is the antitrust. If somebody tries to replace Y with ads, this must be legally part of the price. Higher price for consumers is what makes a good reason to split a monopoly.

estebarb 7y ago
Please, don't tell HP Inc employees that they are going to pass through another split.
TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
You're not renting the printer, you actually buy it. The subscription rental service is for the cartridges, and you always have the option of buying regular non-rental cartridges instead of using the subscription.
samatman 7y ago
Is there in fact an Apple program that amounts to renting? I'm only aware of the iPhone upgrade program, where you pay monthly and can get a new phone once a year after turning your old one in. But if you pay for two years, the phone is yours, outright. I'm a buy-with-cash kind of guy, but the above isn't rental and shouldn't be described as such. It's a payment plan with some incentives designed to keep iPhone sales up.

spicymaki 7y ago

I have an HP Envy 7800 series printer that is not enrolled in Instant Ink and it works just fine. HP asked me once during driver installation to subscribe to the subscription service, I said no, and it has not asked me again. One technical advantage HP has over Brother is the printer head is integrated into the cartridge. I previously owned an expensive Brother office inkjet printer and the printer head got into a bad state where no matter how many times I cleaned the head or replaced ink I had streaks. Another issue with Brother is it would not let me print black and white if I did not have color ink installed (HP does). Compared with the Epson EcoTank is there is an unused ink reservoir (called an ink pad) that will collect ink during cleaning cycles and other operations. Once this reservoir is full the printer has reached end of life (and Epson does not recommend servicing it). The EcoTank is really expensive as well.

scarface74 7y ago

There’s a lot of nerd rage about nothing. He bought an ink cartridge with a subscription plan. When you stop paying the subscription it stops working. He could cancel the subscription, send the cartridge back and replace it with a normal cartridge. I have a mix of music I bought from iTunes before Apple Music and Apple Music. If I cancel my subscription, I don’t have access to the subscription music but I keep access to the music I bought - DRM free. What’s the difference?

marcusverus 7y ago
But he already paid for the ink, right? So Apple Music seems like a bad comparison. If you stop paying for Apple Music, you lose access to the service that provides the music. In an apples to apples comparison, this would mean that he no longer has access to the service that provides the ink. But that is not what happened. HP reached out and inactivated a physical product that had already been delivered to him. For an accurate comparison, say you signed up for a subscription of laundry soap through Amazon. Later, upon cancelling your subscription, Amazon not only cancelled your subscription service, but they reached out and (magically) mechanically sealed your last container of laundry soap, even though you had paid for it via the subscription cost. This isn't the same as passively turning off a service. This is actively breaking something that someone already paid for. Am I missing something?
- detaro 7y ago
  He paid for a service that allows him to print X pages per month. As part of that service, HP provides ink cartridges so you can actually print those pages. He cancelled that service, so he can't use the ink provided for that service anymore. If the service was "we'll send you an ink cartridge every X months", then it'd be different. (One clear sign that the X pages are really the thing offered, outside the contract language: it doesn't matter what you print. If you print only full-page photos, you use a lot more ink than someone only printing letters, but for either HP will supply ink cartridges as needed) To take your laundry soap example: You haven't subscribed to laundry soap, you've subscribed to a "2 washes per week" service, as part of which Amazon supplies you the soap you need for those washes. If you stop paying for that, you can't use the supplied material for more washes.

ohahn15t36w 7y ago

Reminds me of some of Netgear's newer switches that don't let you access much of the configuration until you register it to a Netgear account... https://kb.netgear.com/000061528/GS108Tv3-GS110TPv3-GS110TPP-Firmware-Version-7-0-2-5 https://kb.netgear.com/000061528/GS108Tv3-GS110TPv3-GS110TPP...

milankragujevic 7y ago

InkJet printers are a scam. And not [only] because of the "genuine" cartridge lock in, but because they are trash devices. I had 2 "low-end" HP printers that would die after 2 years (warranty period). The way they would die is very interesting: The printer would receive the document to print, pull in paper, start priting but not pull the paper so everything would get printed on one line. Then, when it is done printing, it would move the paper properly, in steps, without printing anything, until it's "done", when it would eject the paper. That is a software problem, because 1. it can pull the paper precisely, and 2. it can print. It just desynchronizes the pulling of paper with the printing. After that, I got another HP printer that was 3 times the price, which works right now, but it's absolutely trash quality. It cost 100€, and I'm comparing it's color print quality to a color laser printer at work, from Konica Minolta, which is actually 5 times the price, the but the quality, speed of printing, reliability and cost of maintenance (and the fact it's been printing hundreds of pages per day for 5 years without duying yet). InkJet printers are awful in quality, cost more to own, require regular maintenance, break or pause in critical moments ("Please wait while the printer performs head alingment", "The printer is priting a test page. When done, please scan the page and click OK to continue. ", "The printer is cleaning the head surface. Please wait. This may use up a large amount of ink. ") and slower than laser printers. This is not mentioning the fact that print quality in black is atrocious on cheaper InkJets, which specify a huge resolution but in reality the dots are misaligned and fuzzy. Basically, awful devices. Printers in general are awful devices, but consumer InkJets are a whole different level. Edit: I just checked, Konica Minolta in Belgrade (Serbia), represented by Konica Minolta Business Solutions Europe GmbH, literally only does "Industrial InkJet printers" now, and has subscription models for whole printers, where a company pays a monthly subscription for a printer, and has that printer maintained on-premise, replaced with no downtime, refilled and has some level of additional support. I'm not sure that's what my workplace uses.

semi-extrinsic 7y ago
My conclusion is that unless you're printing 50+ large photos or hundreds of 4"x6" pics per year, the total cost of just ordering prints from a print shop is much lower than owning an inkjet.

nexuist 7y ago

Why are people still using printers at all? I cannot fathom any reason outside of art / photos why you would want to print a document when you can view it on just about every device available to you. When was the last time you were in a room without a screen? A room where nobody had a smartphone, tablet, laptop, or TV? Do you view Word documents in the shower? It seems like from a financial and environmental perspective, printing out forms is exceedingly wasteful.

detaro 7y ago
1) art/photos 2) sending letters 3) handing in forms to government services etc 4) paper is a lot more practical to just stick somewhere/hand around for whoever to use, e.g. checklists 5) making signs/labels for stuff 6) handing in homework
- brokensegue 7y ago
  I agree with all that though only the first option definitely needs color (inkjet) printing.
  - detaro 7y ago
    Sure, but parent was only asking about "printers".
    - brokensegue 7y ago
      yeah i was trying to make a charitable re-interpretation of the parent
  - pbhjpbhj 7y ago
    We have an inkjet because we bought it for photo/poster printing. Buying a second printer, just for documents, would be overkill. I've intended to have a black laser and get colour printing at the store, but am waiting for the printer to die.

teh_infallible 7y ago

Even when you buy HP cartridges, the printer can detect how old they are, and they arbitrarily stop printing well after a certain amount of time. A cartridge absolutely does not guarantee s certain number of printed pages

bookAlot 7y ago

Scary! Maybe the bushfire will pull down the building with this rule in place.

mike50 7y ago

Computer illiterate gets ripped off. News at 11.

tripzilch 7y ago

How do you get into a situation where you're automatically paying $5/mo for your printer and don't know about it?

rhabarba 7y ago

I wonder how this is different from literally any other subscription service like Spotify and Netflix: Your subscription has expired, so the owner of the goods wants you to stop using his stuff.