3 ms·

What you're saying is so true, but it's worth saying: it doesn't work. This is exactly how once-great tech companies die. This is how governments lose the fait

What you're saying is so true, but it's worth saying: it doesn't work. This is exactly how once-great tech companies die. This is how governments lose the faith of their citizenry.

oarabbus_ 7y ago
That... seems like a bit of a leap.
adrianN 7y ago
I suspect that a large fraction of the software in use is written at least in part using that method. Now you can debate whether that software actually works or not, but I think that its value is not net negative.
- Aeolun 7y ago
  But does the software work because of the body shop? Or despite it.
  - adrianN 7y ago
    No, the question is whether a competitor that doesn't use a body shop can make software that provides more value to customers.
  - Spooky23 7y ago
    A little bit of both. The body shop outsources the risk of putting butts in chairs, and removing them when you’re done. It’s crap work for crap pay. In the 70s and 80s when this stuff was new, it made sense to “grow” and train operators and more blue collar folks driven by runbooks and tight frameworks. Nowadays you just hire low skill folks “off the shelf”.
jackcviers3 7y ago
Writing crud websites with spring/.net ms isn't really that difficult. The work is largely done, you just have to fill in a few small details (your domain models, your db credentials, your endpoint paths, your validation rules, your css, your logging configuration and a few templates html pages) and you are done. The sites have very low load, they have almost 0 concurrent writes for the same db entity, and the front-end is largely a simple form. Operations are handled by a different team than the initial development team - they don't even need to know how to deploy the thing. It's code by numbers, and in that situation, it pays to have someone that doesn't deviate from the number system and the low need for creativity drives the value of the work down and makes the code into a commodity product. Value is low, competition is high, margins are low. Certification is just a sign that you are open for business in that market.

What you're saying is so true, but it's worth saying: it doesn't work. This is exactly how once-great tech companies die. This is how governments lose the faith of their citizenry.

oarabbus_ 7y ago

That... seems like a bit of a leap.

adrianN 7y ago

I suspect that a large fraction of the software in use is written at least in part using that method. Now you can debate whether that software actually works or not, but I think that its value is not net negative.

Aeolun 7y ago
But does the software work because of the body shop? Or despite it.
- adrianN 7y ago
  No, the question is whether a competitor that doesn't use a body shop can make software that provides more value to customers.
- Spooky23 7y ago
  A little bit of both. The body shop outsources the risk of putting butts in chairs, and removing them when you’re done. It’s crap work for crap pay. In the 70s and 80s when this stuff was new, it made sense to “grow” and train operators and more blue collar folks driven by runbooks and tight frameworks. Nowadays you just hire low skill folks “off the shelf”.

jackcviers3 7y ago

Writing crud websites with spring/.net ms isn't really that difficult. The work is largely done, you just have to fill in a few small details (your domain models, your db credentials, your endpoint paths, your validation rules, your css, your logging configuration and a few templates html pages) and you are done. The sites have very low load, they have almost 0 concurrent writes for the same db entity, and the front-end is largely a simple form. Operations are handled by a different team than the initial development team - they don't even need to know how to deploy the thing. It's code by numbers, and in that situation, it pays to have someone that doesn't deviate from the number system and the low need for creativity drives the value of the work down and makes the code into a commodity product. Value is low, competition is high, margins are low. Certification is just a sign that you are open for business in that market.