6 ms·

Google has like 80% of the search market share. How does one not become dependent on that traffic source?

buboard 7y ago
How did any of these companies (google amazon apple) grow? Feeding the search machine only makes google stronger. If businesses stop giving away their content to google for free, it will stop being so important. The only platforms that can be trusted are the unowned, decentralised ones, email and www
- robbrown451 7y ago
  "Feeding the search machine only makes google stronger. If businesses stop giving away their content to google for free, it will stop being so important" So, let's say you are a business. You can only control what you do, not what all the other businesses in the world do. Is your strategy to keep your content off Google, in hopes that you will starve the "search machine" and thereby weaken it? My guess is you won't be a business for long with that strategy.
  - buboard 7y ago
    Almost all of facebook s content is off google But take basecamp for example. Do they really need google searches for such a specialized business software? There is email and other forms of marketing they can use to reach out directly to prospective users with that 70000.
    - robbrown451 7y ago
      So they should spam people rather than let people do searches and arrive at their site? And that is just Basecamp. There are many other businesses whose best strategy is to "play ball" with the dominant companies. But they are at their mercy. Many people (including myself) feel that this isn't healthy competition nor is socially optimal. Regardless, my point was that you advocated a strategy that only works if all the small companies are cooperating....in other words, a game theoretically unsound strategy.
closeparen 7y ago
Before Google, the local newspaper had like 80% of advertising market share in each city, and many were owned by national conglomerates.
- marcosdumay 7y ago
  I highly doubt that. But anyway, I don't see how that's relevant.
  - closeparen 7y ago
    Because Google has not changed the structure of the market, only which player sits in that position.
    - robbrown451 7y ago
      But when you advertised in a newspaper, you didn't have to fear the newspaper suddenly becoming your competitor and then refusing to run your ads. Well, I suppose that might've happened if you were another publication or something. But it was relatively rare. Also, newspapers weren't the only way people advertised, for instance the yellow pages was a big deal when I was a kid. (and it was the subject of a Ralph Nader article calling it out as a monopoly: https://frankwarner.typepad.com/free_frank_warner/2004/08/fort_dix_vetera.html https://frankwarner.typepad.com/free_frank_warner/2004/08/fo... )
      - bagacrap 7y ago
        Google refused to run someone's ads? When I search for "cloud hosting" the first two things I see are ads for IBM and Lenovo. The third hit is an ad for Google.
        robbrown451 7y ago
        Right but what about having a product in an app store and then next thing you know Apple or Google has their own product that competes with it.
basch 7y ago
The Internet is so full of spam and noise, people have become dependent on gatekeepers to sift through for signal. Nobody really wants to browse the raw web anymore. If you want to make money online, youre going to have to buy access to someones platform, whether that be Google, Apple, Ebay, Amazon, Facebook. Youre either buying shelf space in a marketplace, or youre buying or selling billboard space. (Even if you are a self hosted website, which is becoming more rare as the CMS market consolidates behind newspaper's tech offerings) youre buying ads from Google, Facebook, or Microsoft.) The one I left out is "content production" whether that be journalism or entertainment, but the same thing applies. Youre going to need to convince a newspaper, radio, streaming service, or Disney to publish you. However, a monopoly, this does not make. The world being pay to play doesnt automatically mean one behemoth is sole gatekeeper. There are plenty of different platforms you can fight for access on, fights you may win and profit from.

How did any of these companies (google amazon apple) grow? Feeding the search machine only makes google stronger. If businesses stop giving away their content to google for free, it will stop being so important. The only platforms that can be trusted are the unowned, decentralised ones, email and www

robbrown451 7y ago
"Feeding the search machine only makes google stronger. If businesses stop giving away their content to google for free, it will stop being so important" So, let's say you are a business. You can only control what you do, not what all the other businesses in the world do. Is your strategy to keep your content off Google, in hopes that you will starve the "search machine" and thereby weaken it? My guess is you won't be a business for long with that strategy.
- buboard 7y ago
  Almost all of facebook s content is off google But take basecamp for example. Do they really need google searches for such a specialized business software? There is email and other forms of marketing they can use to reach out directly to prospective users with that 70000.
  - robbrown451 7y ago
    So they should spam people rather than let people do searches and arrive at their site? And that is just Basecamp. There are many other businesses whose best strategy is to "play ball" with the dominant companies. But they are at their mercy. Many people (including myself) feel that this isn't healthy competition nor is socially optimal. Regardless, my point was that you advocated a strategy that only works if all the small companies are cooperating....in other words, a game theoretically unsound strategy.

closeparen 7y ago

Before Google, the local newspaper had like 80% of advertising market share in each city, and many were owned by national conglomerates.

marcosdumay 7y ago
I highly doubt that. But anyway, I don't see how that's relevant.
- closeparen 7y ago
  Because Google has not changed the structure of the market, only which player sits in that position.
  - robbrown451 7y ago
    But when you advertised in a newspaper, you didn't have to fear the newspaper suddenly becoming your competitor and then refusing to run your ads. Well, I suppose that might've happened if you were another publication or something. But it was relatively rare. Also, newspapers weren't the only way people advertised, for instance the yellow pages was a big deal when I was a kid. (and it was the subject of a Ralph Nader article calling it out as a monopoly: https://frankwarner.typepad.com/free_frank_warner/2004/08/fort_dix_vetera.html https://frankwarner.typepad.com/free_frank_warner/2004/08/fo... )
    - bagacrap 7y ago
      Google refused to run someone's ads? When I search for "cloud hosting" the first two things I see are ads for IBM and Lenovo. The third hit is an ad for Google.
      - robbrown451 7y ago
        Right but what about having a product in an app store and then next thing you know Apple or Google has their own product that competes with it.

basch 7y ago

The Internet is so full of spam and noise, people have become dependent on gatekeepers to sift through for signal. Nobody really wants to browse the raw web anymore. If you want to make money online, youre going to have to buy access to someones platform, whether that be Google, Apple, Ebay, Amazon, Facebook. Youre either buying shelf space in a marketplace, or youre buying or selling billboard space. (Even if you are a self hosted website, which is becoming more rare as the CMS market consolidates behind newspaper's tech offerings) youre buying ads from Google, Facebook, or Microsoft.) The one I left out is "content production" whether that be journalism or entertainment, but the same thing applies. Youre going to need to convince a newspaper, radio, streaming service, or Disney to publish you. However, a monopoly, this does not make. The world being pay to play doesnt automatically mean one behemoth is sole gatekeeper. There are plenty of different platforms you can fight for access on, fights you may win and profit from.