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This is why I wrote "forked". They do have the right to not accept PRs for their own project, no? Sure, someone can be a bad steward, or maybe just opinionated.

This is why I wrote "forked". They do have the right to not accept PRs for their own project, no? Sure, someone can be a bad steward, or maybe just opinionated. Doesn't give anyone the right to be mean to the point of making them quit their own project.

jimbokun 7y ago
All of this is second hand, where are the mean comments "making" this person quit their own project? Were they actual personal attacks, or just criticism of the code? If you can't accept legitimate criticism of your work, that shows a real lack of maturity. (The article didn't give concrete examples, so I don't know which is the case here.)
- steveklabnik 7y ago
  Here is an example of an actual comment. I believe the thread is deleted now: > "seriously? Please just stop writing Rust. You do not respect semver, you do not respect soundness, so why are you using a language predominantly based around doing these things right?" This is what I was thinking of when I wrote "far, far over the line."
  - jeltz 7y ago
    Yes, that comment was not ok but as far as I have seen that is the only comment which keeps getting quoted. All but a handful of people seem to have been civil.
    - timjver 7y ago
      Not to mention that that was a comment on GitHub, not on Reddit, even though the "far, far, far over the line" statement was about "the now-usual Reddit uproar". I guess Klabnik just really dislikes Reddit.
    - twic 7y ago
      This! It is utterly disingenous - in fact, it is simply lying - to characterise users' interactions with the maintainer here as harrassment, or abusive, or entitled.
  - jimbokun 7y ago
    Well, that's pretty clearly terrible and unhelpful!
  - tssva 7y ago
    Depending on the context that doesn't seem to be "far, far over the line." Just about any thread on HN regarding any aspect of systemd or Google will have comments which are much more vitriolic.
    - blinzy 7y ago
      I completely agree with you, especially considering that comment was posted in reply to the maintainer's also dismissive comment "this patch is boring", which to me makes it seem not as bad as if it were out of the blue...
    - roywiggins 7y ago
      I believe the Rust community has been trying to draw a line somewhat short of where systemd discourse ended up.
    - cortesoft 7y ago
      Those comments would also be over the line.
    - ChrisSD 7y ago
      HN discussions do not always live up to HN ideals. This is not be used as a reason to drag others down to our level. Instead it should make us reflect on our own behaviour.
    - svick 7y ago
      Just because something is common doesn't mean it's okay.
    - detaro 7y ago
      Indeed, and it's one of the reasons HN has the reputation as "that orange hellsite" in some places.
  - herbstein 7y ago
    That comment is demeaning, unhelpful, and in very bad taste. It's the comment that the delete functionality on GitHub was made for. However, one of the other participants in the thread immediately called out this comment. So you have a constructive dialog, a single bad actor, and said single actor being called out by the people having the constructive dialog. That doesn't sound like an unhealthy community to me, to be perfectly frank.
    - blinzy 7y ago
      I agree that the comment is in bad taste but what I don't see this being considered a "far, far, far over the line." comment when I take into consideration that it had been posted in reply to the maintainer's also dismissive comment "this patch is boring" so, yes, the user has definitely been rude, but chances are it's a visceral response too. Otherwise if that event is far far over the line I wonder what out of the blue insults or death threats qualify as.
  - golergka 7y ago
    I think it's a cultural issue, but I honestly don't see what's so offensive about this comment (I was expecting something far worse), especially if it's factual assumptions are true. Honest question, can somebody explain the issue here to me, and how one would express these concerns otherwise? I feel as if I just don't get American culture of politeness and niceness to appreciate it.
    - sbarre 7y ago
      It's a personal attack. The poster is telling the maintainer to quit writing Rust, implying he can never get better and basically demeaning his whole effort. Do you not see how that is (a) not related to the project and (b) rude in any context? If you were, say, singing karaoke and someone came up to you and said "you're awful, never sing again, you're off-key, you don't know the words"... Is that not rude to you?
      - justincredible 7y ago
        > If you were, say, singing karaoke and someone came up to you and said "you're awful, never sing again, you're off-key, you don't know the words"... Is that not rude to you? While the recipient would most likely be offended, the rudeness would depend on: 1) the accuracy of the statement. 2) the standard the karaoke bar holds for its singers.
      - catalogia 7y ago
        Good singing is to karaoke as safety is to Rust? I don't claim to know much about either karaoke or rust, but from what little I know of both, that seems wrong. The Rust community expects safe code, while bad singing is expected at karaoke bars.
        sbarre 7y ago
        You missed the point then. The comparison was about how to communicate respectfully and appropriately, not about making an perfect analogy. Think of it this way then: it is completely possible for the Rust community to expect safe code without being entitled assholes about how they communicate that expectation.
  - justincredible 7y ago
    The request is unreasonable, but is the second question not valid?

jimbokun 7y ago

All of this is second hand, where are the mean comments "making" this person quit their own project? Were they actual personal attacks, or just criticism of the code? If you can't accept legitimate criticism of your work, that shows a real lack of maturity. (The article didn't give concrete examples, so I don't know which is the case here.)

steveklabnik 7y ago
Here is an example of an actual comment. I believe the thread is deleted now: > "seriously? Please just stop writing Rust. You do not respect semver, you do not respect soundness, so why are you using a language predominantly based around doing these things right?" This is what I was thinking of when I wrote "far, far over the line."
- jeltz 7y ago
  Yes, that comment was not ok but as far as I have seen that is the only comment which keeps getting quoted. All but a handful of people seem to have been civil.
  - timjver 7y ago
    Not to mention that that was a comment on GitHub, not on Reddit, even though the "far, far, far over the line" statement was about "the now-usual Reddit uproar". I guess Klabnik just really dislikes Reddit.
  - twic 7y ago
    This! It is utterly disingenous - in fact, it is simply lying - to characterise users' interactions with the maintainer here as harrassment, or abusive, or entitled.
- jimbokun 7y ago
  Well, that's pretty clearly terrible and unhelpful!
- tssva 7y ago
  Depending on the context that doesn't seem to be "far, far over the line." Just about any thread on HN regarding any aspect of systemd or Google will have comments which are much more vitriolic.
  - blinzy 7y ago
    I completely agree with you, especially considering that comment was posted in reply to the maintainer's also dismissive comment "this patch is boring", which to me makes it seem not as bad as if it were out of the blue...
  - roywiggins 7y ago
    I believe the Rust community has been trying to draw a line somewhat short of where systemd discourse ended up.
  - cortesoft 7y ago
    Those comments would also be over the line.
  - ChrisSD 7y ago
    HN discussions do not always live up to HN ideals. This is not be used as a reason to drag others down to our level. Instead it should make us reflect on our own behaviour.
  - svick 7y ago
    Just because something is common doesn't mean it's okay.
  - detaro 7y ago
    Indeed, and it's one of the reasons HN has the reputation as "that orange hellsite" in some places.
- herbstein 7y ago
  That comment is demeaning, unhelpful, and in very bad taste. It's the comment that the delete functionality on GitHub was made for. However, one of the other participants in the thread immediately called out this comment. So you have a constructive dialog, a single bad actor, and said single actor being called out by the people having the constructive dialog. That doesn't sound like an unhealthy community to me, to be perfectly frank.
  - blinzy 7y ago
    I agree that the comment is in bad taste but what I don't see this being considered a "far, far, far over the line." comment when I take into consideration that it had been posted in reply to the maintainer's also dismissive comment "this patch is boring" so, yes, the user has definitely been rude, but chances are it's a visceral response too. Otherwise if that event is far far over the line I wonder what out of the blue insults or death threats qualify as.
- golergka 7y ago
  I think it's a cultural issue, but I honestly don't see what's so offensive about this comment (I was expecting something far worse), especially if it's factual assumptions are true. Honest question, can somebody explain the issue here to me, and how one would express these concerns otherwise? I feel as if I just don't get American culture of politeness and niceness to appreciate it.
  - sbarre 7y ago
    It's a personal attack. The poster is telling the maintainer to quit writing Rust, implying he can never get better and basically demeaning his whole effort. Do you not see how that is (a) not related to the project and (b) rude in any context? If you were, say, singing karaoke and someone came up to you and said "you're awful, never sing again, you're off-key, you don't know the words"... Is that not rude to you?
    - justincredible 7y ago
      > If you were, say, singing karaoke and someone came up to you and said "you're awful, never sing again, you're off-key, you don't know the words"... Is that not rude to you? While the recipient would most likely be offended, the rudeness would depend on: 1) the accuracy of the statement. 2) the standard the karaoke bar holds for its singers.
    - catalogia 7y ago
      Good singing is to karaoke as safety is to Rust? I don't claim to know much about either karaoke or rust, but from what little I know of both, that seems wrong. The Rust community expects safe code, while bad singing is expected at karaoke bars.
      - sbarre 7y ago
        You missed the point then. The comparison was about how to communicate respectfully and appropriately, not about making an perfect analogy. Think of it this way then: it is completely possible for the Rust community to expect safe code without being entitled assholes about how they communicate that expectation.
- justincredible 7y ago
  The request is unreasonable, but is the second question not valid?