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Incident: Ethiopian B737 at Dire Dawa on Jan 9th, swarm of grasshoppers
- ocfnash 7y ago"The crew went around, climbed to 8500 feet, depressurized the aircraft, opened the cockpit side window and cleaned the windscreen by hand."
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- joncrane 7y agoTwice! They tried to land at the original airport again, it happened again, they cleaned it again, then diverted. The pictures are intense! Edit: The original title was way more focused on the fact this is a Boeing 737; I feel the new post title is a good compromise. BTW: I think this is gaining traction because it's a 737; however, can most airplane windshield wipers clean a thick layer of dead, crushed locusts off the windscreen? I would argue that we should change the title to "airliner." I think the title is meant intentionally to capitalize on the notoriety of the model of airplane, when this incident is not specific to that model.
- pmyteh 7y agoThere's no intention to capitalise here: Simon Hradecky (who runs the Aviation Herald) runs almost all his headlines in a standard format: (Crash|Accident|Incident|Report): <Airline> <aircraft type code> at <place> on <date>, <short description>. The description is sometimes updated when more information comes in.
- pgt 7y agoReminds me of the F-16 staple scene from Hot Shots! (1991): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkdbqK4iUsU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkdbqK4iUsU
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago>can most airplane windshield wipers clean a thick layer of dead, crushed locusts off the windscreen? Pretty much any rubber bladed windshield wiper will not be able to clear them after they dry out and at several hundred miles an hour with equatorial air temperatures that will happen very quickly.
- deeblering4 7y agoDo aircraft have the ability to spray liquid on the windscreen, like cars do?
- irscott 7y agoDepending on altitude I bet this could cause the windscreen to ice over.
- VBprogrammer 7y agoOlder aircraft had the ability to spray deicing fluid on the windshield. After that bleed air from the engines was used but now it's mostly electrically heated.
- sangnoir 7y agoWipers make it worse! I had the misfortune of driving through some flying termites (not dense - think 20 splats/minute). Insects have fatty/non-soluble insides: when I turned on the wipers, I managed smears the goop more uniformly across the windshield, making visibility infinitely worse. Spraying water does not help, unless it has some detergent in it.
- wereHamster 7y agoI want to know how it feels to open the cockpit window at 200 kts. Also, how far out do they need to lean to reach the whole window?
- zubspace 7y agoI guess by looking at the picture of the cockpit inside that one of the pilots only cleaned the part of the window on the left side which was reachable.
- 0xfaded 7y agoI've done it at 140kts with a GoPro. Feels like your arm is in cold turbulant water. Presumably at 200kts the forces would be double.
- base698 7y agoI've exited an aircraft at 220kts a few times. It's very hard and feels almost like hitting a wall. I'll quote myself after the first time when it knocked me for a loop: > That wind made me it's bitch.
- madaxe_again 7y agoI am slightly scratching my head as to why, unless the pilots were only qualified for VFR. I learned to fly with the RAF as an air cadet. I vividly recall the first lesson in which my instructor whipped out a piece of cardboard, covered the windscreen, and said “land”. It turns out that as long as you’ve ILS, you can do it with zero vis. It looks like they had ILS available: https://worldaerodata.com/wad.cgi?id=ET86469 https://worldaerodata.com/wad.cgi?id=ET86469 I can’t help but think a blind landing is safer than depressurising a cabin full of passengers.
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago>I can’t help but think a blind landing is safer than depressurising a cabin full of passengers. We're talking about 1000ft above Mexico city amount of altitude, here, not Mt. Everest. Any inherent risk from that is below the threshold of what's quantifiable. Skydivers routinely jump from 10,000ft.
- jvm_ 7y agoWhere they finally landed, Addis Ababa is at 7,726, Mexico City is 7,350.
- LeifCarrotson 7y agoThat makes a lot more sense. When I initially read the article, I assumed they were landing at a typical runway within ~1000 feet of sea level and for some unfathomable reason decided to ascend many thousands of feet before opening the window. I forget how high Addis Ababa is!
- t0mas88 7y agoI'm 100% sure they weren't only qualified for VFR. Every airline pilot is instrument rated, and there are no places that will give you a 737 type rating without IR. Even when flying on instruments you still land visually, unless the aircraft is cat iii / autoland capable, the crew is certified and current and the airport has cat iii procedures in effect. Probably they didn't have one of these and didn't want to land with zero visibility. Depressurizing at 8500ft is a good choice, the cabin is normally pressurized to the equivalent of 8000ft outside air pressure. So what they did was basically open the outflow valves and passengers wouldn't have noticed a thing.
- cushychicken 7y agoI'd love to see the entry in the situational playbook for scenarios like that.
- nathancahill 7y agoHere you go: https://hursts.org.uk/airbus-nonnormal/notes.pdf https://hursts.org.uk/airbus-nonnormal/notes.pdf Section 2.17. Volcanic Ash Encounter
- michaelt 7y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_9 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_9: "The aircraft flew into a cloud of volcanic ash [...] resulting in the failure of all four engines. [...] The cloud sandblasted the windscreen and landing light covers [...] After landing, the flight crew found it impossible to taxi, due to glare from apron floodlights which made the already sandblasted windscreen opaque." https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/pilots-awarded-medal-for-landing-blind-after-istanbul-hailstorm/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/pilots-awarded-medal... / http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/07/29/ukrainian-pilot-miraculously-lands-damaged-plane-in-turkey/ http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/07/29/ukrainian-pilot-miracu... "Soon after take-off, at 1,300 metres above the ground, the aircraft’s nose was pummelled by hailstones the size of golf balls, shattering the windscreen and leaving the pilots unable to see." "The pilot made a decision to return and was able to land by tilting the airplane to see the runway through the side window and by good coordination with the airport’s dispatchers."
- whycombagator 7y agoYou missed my favourite part and quote from the pilot (Moody): > As Flight 9 approached Jakarta, the crew found it difficult to see anything through the windscreen, and made the approach almost entirely on instruments, despite reports of good visibility. The crew decided to fly the instrument landing system (ILS); however, the vertical guidance system was inoperative, so they were forced to fly with only the lateral guidance as the first officer monitored the airport's distance measuring equipment (DME). He then called out how high they should be at each DME step along the final approach to the runway, creating a virtual glide slope for them to follow. Moody described it as "a bit like negotiating one's way up a badger's arse."
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- djohnston 7y agoWow, the number of failsafes in aviation is genuinely comforting
- jefftk 7y agoInitially I thought that since Dire Dawa is 4200 feet above sea level it was weird that they'd climb to ~4300 feet above ground level. But Dire Dawa is just a few miles north of the Ahmar Mountains (part of the Ethiopian Highlands), and they probably needed to climb that much to clear them.
- jmkni 7y agoI know nothing about aviation, is that what pilots are supposed to do in a situation like this?
- alistairSH 7y agoGo arounds are a "normal" deviation from plan and pilots train for them. Reasons vary - airplane or traffic on runway, weather, and now bugs. As a passenger, you might not encounter one - my first time was in Sprint 2019, approaching Heathrow - traffic on the runway from a debris check, we were already on final, caught me off guard, but wasn't too scary. As for the windscreen, I'm not sure if the 737 checklists include "depressurize and clean manually" for bug strikes, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did have instructions for general "windshield is obscured" conditions.
- jmkni 7y agoThanks
- mikejb 7y agoIt should be noted though that the airplane type is only marginally * relevant in this incident (I'm saying that because many have other associations when a B737 gets mentioned in an "incident" context). * The only relevance is that the ability to open windows / reach other windows to clean them during flight depends on the airplane type. So it's actually a plus for the 737, in this case.
- Symbiote 7y agoWith a few searches, it looks like the A320 has windows that open (the expectation is that it's the last-resort method to remove smoke in the cockpit, or for escape), but the B787 and A350 do not. https://scandinaviantraveler.com/en/aviation/ask-the-pilot-can-the-windows-really-be-opened https://scandinaviantraveler.com/en/aviation/ask-the-pilot-c...
- sshanky 7y agoSo what would the procedure have been for those planes?
- SilasX 7y agoI confess to immediately trying to think of a snarky remark about how Boeing will trivialize this with statement involving language about "3rd-world airlines" :-P (i.e. similar to initial dismissals of the MAX)
- Quarrelsome 7y agoIs there anywhere about where we can track the swarms? Get stories of their impact?
- gilbertmpanga12 7y agoThe article states grasshoppers. In Uganda, grasshoppers are a big business! They're yummy and tasty. Checkout here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nsenene https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nsenene
- polyphonicist 7y ago> The crew went around, attempted a second approach but again needed to go around and diverted to their ultimate destination Addis Ababa (Ethiopia) Do they mean "alternate destination"?
- LandR 7y agoI think ultimate in this case means the airport where they finally landed. e.g, if you planned to go to Alices house, then Bobs house but Bob wasn't home so you went to Eves house. Your ultimate destination was Eves house.
- Infernal 7y agoWas my interpretation as well. In this case ultimate just means "where they ended up".
- sangnoir 7y agoI think it's more like you plan to sleep over at Eve's house, but visit Bob on the way. As you drive to Bobs house, you run into a huge forest fire, so you turn back and go to Eve's - which was always your ultimate destination, but in this case you failed to visit Bob. (Also - Addis Ababa is Ethiopian's hub - so it makes sense for regional flights with connecting legs to terminate there)
- pmyteh 7y agoDon't think so: the wording is consistent with a flight that was intending to make an intermediate stop, but cancelled it because of an inability to land and went on to their final destination directly.
- netsharc 7y agohttps://flightaware.com/live/flight/ETH363 https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ETH363 Seems it's a multi-leg flight. I wonder how the people who wanted to disembark/get on at DIR felt...
- jcims 7y agoCurious what the engine inspection process is like for something like this.
- k_sze 7y agoEngineer 1: “Yuck!” Engineer 2: “Let’s just pretend it’s a write-off.” Engineer 1: “Agreed.”
- mschuster91 7y agoTaking a wild guess here but power-washing the outer surfaces should do it. They're bugs, not birds which can cause real damage.
- deepspace 7y agoI am no expert either, but I have had the misfortune of driving through a locust swarm. 1) Every surface that could be reached through an opening of any kind was covered in muck. 2) Every vent and other opening was clogged with dead locusts. 3) I was still finding locust residue in the depths of the car YEARS later. So I would expect just the opposite, namely that the engines would have to be stripped down to components and cleaned thoroughly. Now way is an exterior power wash is going to do the trick.
- 076ae80a-3c97-4 7y agoHere's the Aviation Safety Network page: https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/232079 https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/232079
- cyberferret 7y agoKudos to the crew for trying to clean the windshield @ 8500 feet and ~200 knots, but I don't know how effective that would have been anyway. I once drove through a thick locust swarm in the Kimberley region of Australia and my car was covered in a thick bug splat paste in very short order, to the extent that I lost forward visibility and had to pull over. Even after the swarm passed and I got out to try and clean the windshield by hand using a towel, the 'paste' just smeared thickly and I needed to scrape it off with a plastic knife and some water. And that was stationary and standing outside the car on the side of a road. I can only guess at how futile it would be leaning out a window with one arm holding a (presumably) paper towel in blasting wind.
- naz 7y agoFrom the picture in the article the cleaning looks like it worked
- userbinator 7y agoAt flying speed, the wind may have even helped to dislodge and blow away the remnants of what didn't get wiped off.
- raxxorrax 7y agoMaybe they should have climbed to 40,000 feet until the whole thing freezes over. Not an expert of adhesive properties of grasshoppers though.
- k_sze 7y agoIs this kind of scenario available for simulation in any of the (consumer/gamer) flight sims?
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- kawfey 7y agoputting a piece of paper over the windshield/viewports would work. Also setting a pitot/ADS failure because surely the pitot tube would have been jammed up with bug guts.
- Yizahi 7y agoTheoretically - can civil aviation pilots land in "dark room" conditions, when there is zero visibility from windows at all times? I know that they can approach at least, but can they actually land in the "dark"?
- t0mas88 7y agoNo, normally we need at least 550m RVR (runway visual range) for a Cat I instrument approach. You need to see the runway (or lights) to be allowed to descend below 200ft and land, if you don't see it at that point you abort the landing. The visibility can be lower with special procedures, extra training, and things like a HUD. But it will not go down to zero. To land in zero visibility you need "autoland" which requires an aircraft certified to do that (multiple autopilot computers etc), crew certified and current (having done it recently) and special procedures at the airport. In that case the autopilot will control the aircraft all the way to rollout.
- sails 7y agoIf they couldn't get the bugs off the screen, what might they have done?
- cjrp 7y agoCheck the weather radar for the nearest rainstorm
- t0mas88 7y agoFind a very long runway, fly an LPV or ILS approach. When the radar altimeter is around 20 or 30ft depending on the size of the plane, reduce power and keep the nose up. Fly it into the runway at a 100ft/min descend rate. This is roughly what we learned as a contingency in a small plane when you had a night landing without lights. You need the long runway because it takes some time to get down so you're going to waste some length trying to touch down gently.
- sails 7y ago
- tmcb 7y ago> The United Nation's Food and Agriculture Organisation (FAO) reported on Jan 6th 2020: "The Desert Locust situation remains extremely serious in the Horn of Africa where it threatens pastures and crops in Ethiopia, Somalia and Kenya. Numerous swarms have formed in eastern Ethiopia and adjacent areas of northern Somalia. A number of large immature swarms moved south in the Ogaden of eastern Ethiopia and adjacent areas of central Somalia and reached southern Somalia, southeast Ethiopia and, on 28 December, northeast Kenya." The FAO warns a dangerous situation arises at the Horn of Africa and on both sides of the Red Sea. Thinking on the opposite direction, wouldn't it be interesting to have unmanned drones to eliminate locusts with ballistic impacts?
- Karlozkiller 7y agoWhy're everybody commenting about it being a 737? It's one of the most common, stable and widely used aircraft families, no? It does not say it was a 737MAX, which would be quite improbable as they're still grounded. Reacting just because it says 737 feels to me kinda like reaction becauase it says PC or Mac.
- slumdev 7y agoCarriers that fly the 737NG (not MAX) are finding that the component that holds the wings to the fuselage is cracking much sooner than advertised by Boeing. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/01/dozens-of-boeing-jets-grounded-due-to-pickle-fork-cracks.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/01/dozens-of-boeing-jets-ground...
- AnimalMuppet 7y agoUnless grasshoppers are eating those components, that isn't relevant here at all.
- slumdev 7y agoThis grasshopper incident could have happened to any airplane, regardless of manufacturer or model. But the 737 has been making the headlines a disproportionate amount of the time recently, and mostly for reasons that are Boeing's fault.
- AnimalMuppet 7y agoYeah. And the only things those other stories share with this one is "737". And, as you said, this incident could have happened to any airplane. So your bringing up the NG wing part issue is completely irrelevant here. It looks like someone just looking for a chance to rip Boeing.
- numlock86 7y ago> Why're everybody commenting about it being a 737? Where are you reading comments at, though? Surely you don't mean this HN discussion ...
- sdiq 7y agoThe locusts, rather than grasshoppers, have now arrived in Kenya and causing havoc. Flights are not the only risk here, in a region that has been experiencing recurrent droughts and famine, these locusts are going to have a negative impact on food security. The East African countries seem to be also short of pesticide supplies and the requisite airplanes for spraying the same. On a positive but albeit repugnant note, some people are finding these locusts very tasty. I haven't tried though.
- kazinator 7y agoBut "swarm of locusts" wouldn't be politically correct since it would look like a Biblical reference.
- ogre_codes 7y agoTIL I would have never guessed opening the side window on a 737 in flight was possible. Good job on the pilots getting the plane safely down in some pretty crazy circumstances.
- macinjosh 7y agoI sometimes to forget to fill my wiper fluid too! /s But seriously why don't planes have wiper fluid?
- xyzzyz 7y agoBug guts tend to be rather sticky, and wiper fluid doesn't dissolve them nearly well enough to be removed with wipers. That's been my experience after countryside drives, where you need to manually scrape the windows every few hundred miles, as the wipers won't do.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]