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Hosni Mubarak finally steps down
- michaelty 16y agoNext time, don't take down your country's Internet.
- modernerd 16y ago"If you want people to stay at home and do nothing, you should turn the internet back on." --- Conan O’Brian’s advice to Egypt Regardless, the turnout and determination of the Egyptian people is an inspiration. Great to see the beginnings of a positive outcome.
- zeteo 16y agoAbout the only comment thread on this story that has a claim of belonging on HN.
- tomjen3 16y agoAgreed. Sometimes people forget that this is "news for hackers" and not just news, however wide they are spread.
- buro9 16y agoThere's great live coverage on the BBC at the moment: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698 It looks like a carnival erupted at Tahrir Square when word got out. It was pretty vibrant before, but euphoria is clearly evident.
- Qz 16y agoThe carnival has actually been there for days now...
- buro9 16y agoNot like this, there's a reporter from the BBC tweeting how the streets going to the square are all packed, and palpable joy is everywhere. Watch the video stream if you can, it's uplifting to see. It's more than just the anticipation of celebration, it's the pure and unadulterated celebration and the carnival atmosphere associated with that. Just put it into perspective, a dictator that most have lived under all their lives, the fear that goes with it... it's all being released in one go. It's really hard to watch these pictures and not feel that rub off, but down on the ground this is probably the highest concentration of pure happiness and elation on this planet. Look, awesome is an over-used word and we're an extremely cynical bunch... but this really is awesome.
- Qz 16y agoOh I've been watching it. I'm mainly referring to the tent city in the middle of the square being there, but yes it's quite amazing overall. As happy as I am, I'm still feeling a little unsettled. It's a victory yes, but what comes next?
- drndown2007 16y ago>highest concentration of pure happiness and elation on this planet Very well said. This is just fantastic. I hope the Egyptian people get everything they're hoping for. How exciting!
- alain94040 16y agoFlagged per the guidelines: if it's on TV, it doesn't belong here :-)
- CWuestefeld 16y agoThe OP is Al Jazeera. That means it's not on American TV, at least.
- noarchy 16y agoThey also broadcast a very useful live stream. It's on the Tubes, and it is relevant.
- zeteo 16y ago>>The OP is Al Jazeera. That means it's not on American TV, at least. Really? Because it's on Al Jazeera it means it's not on top of CNN, MSNBC and Fox News right now? A prime example of how logic flies out (even in the smallest details) when discussing politics.
- ugh 16y agoThis is what the guidelines actually say: "Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic."
- tomh- 16y agoThis event is covered on TV, moreover it is covered on other sites which are more mainstream such as reddit, digg etc. I come here to read tech and startup news, this is not something I want to read about on HN. It is also a shame that users who try to question the relevancy of HN submissions get downvoted. Even though it has more than 100 upvotes it is still not relevant to what this site is about. Unless the goal is to become reddit 2.0 with lots of mainstream articles simply because a large amounts of users think it is interesting, I think this kind of articles are best enjoyed elsewhere on the web. I flagged this story, even though I find it interesting.
- goatforce5 16y agoWatching Al Jazeera's live stream and they had one of their journalists on the phone from the square. She expressed excitement and delight that Mubarak was gone. The host guy back in the studio pointed out the journalist on the phone had been impartial up until now, and basically apologised for her expressing her opinion. I thought that was pretty classy.
- bvi 16y agoHe actually said something along the lines of "...do forgive her for her reaction. She was 1 week old when Mubarak came into office." Very cool.
- zalew 16y agoNow it happened another time, and he was even more harsh, sth like "we are sorry that some of our Egyptian correspondents express their private emotions and opinions instead of only doing their proffession". That's what shows class and a really PRO approach. In Poland, when the pope died or the plane crashed, journalists of our local news stations started a crying/mourning contest - it was disgusting and unbearable to watch, and nobody from tv even cared to think that there was something extremely not proffessional about it.
- asdfj843lkdjs 16y agoEveryone on TV crying sure seems like it would be super annoying. But I find the notion that journalist should, or even indeed ever could, be 100% objective and impartial - silly. Silly and most prevalent in America. Curiously also in America we have Fox news which clearly does not abide by objectivity even as it advertises itself with it. My point is simply that pure objectivity is an impossibility. Attempting to reach pure objectivity can lead you down a wrong path, just look at how American journalists contort themselves in order to be nautral, facts and reality be damned. In Europe it is much more prevalent that everyone has a bias, know what it is and keep it in mind as you read, watch, or listen to them. I'm hoping that Al Jazeera, which is accused of having copied the style of fox news if not the substance, does not follow American journalism down the path of a bias free utopia. I hope Egyptian journalists who show any kind of emotion at this news, are only jokingly reprimanded. As long as it doesn't turn into a soap opera, bias ought to be expected of mere humans, even if they are journalists.
- russnewcomer 16y agoMubarak handing power to the army probably means that the regime lives on, Mubarak's just not in charge of it anymore. Egypt's issues aren't settled now, this is only a step and it remains to be seen if real, true, democratic change is going to happen.
- csomar 16y agoTrue. But there is an election coming up next. Now they have just began, Tunisia has just began too. There is an opportunity here since media will be opened (it already opened in Tunisia) and also the doors for true opponents. It's time to guard the election and ensure that the right one is elected. We have just began, and I hope everything will be fine.
- bugsy 16y agoMany Egyptians were talking about having a constitutional convention to decide what sort of government they want. Perhaps it will acknowledge inalienable rights reserved to the people for example. Hopefully that will be the next step, anything less than starting from scratch with their government is going to leave the old system and those who gained power from it in place.
- _djo_ 16y agoThat would be the smartest thing that they could possibly do, especially if they take the opportunity to define a constitution with strong protections for negative rights. With enough care they'll constrain any future government, protect fundamental freedoms and kill two birds with one stone by easing Western fears about the Muslim Brotherhood assuming power. They would do well to learn from South Africa's example in this. I honestly believe that if it was not for the phased departure of apartheid from 1990 to 1994, combined with the constitutional convention and the preservation of the national police and the military, South Africa's transition would have ended in disaster. In the end the security forces played a massive role in creating a stable enough environment for the vital negotiations to take place and without the work of the military behind the scenes it's doubtful that the 1994 election would have happened at all. So the biggest mistake now would be to rush this. Egyptians need to understand that the steps they take next are going to set the stage for the next 30 years and determine whether Mubarak will be followed by a true multi-party democracy or by yet another group of thuggish oppressors. They had better make it count.
- motters 16y agoThe difficult part is always what comes after a revolution. Having the military in charge isn't necessarily a good thing, and whether Egypt does get a democratic government will now depend upon how the military behaves.
- alex_c 16y agoNot to mention that a democratic government, in itself, doesn't guarantee anything - large-scale corruption and incompetence are still a very real possibility. Still, hopefully a step in the right direction - more options are now available to the Egyptian people.
- yummyfajitas 16y agoNot just a real possibility, but a very likely one. I recall that in one interview, a protester was complaining about the lack of economic opportunity. "The supervisor hires all his nephews! Regular people can't get any hours!" (Or something to that effect.) No matter how awesome the new regime is, I doubt they can fix this. Sad fact: many of Egypt's problems are inflicted by the people on themselves, not by Mubarak.
- MichaelSalib 16y agoAlas, I can't find it now, but I recall reading a Foreign Policy article a few months ago which quoted one Egyptian as saying something like 'Mubarak is problem, but the much bigger problem is that this country has a million little Mubaraks, tiny totalitarians who rule their tiny fiefdoms with a tiny (iron) fist'; it seems that getting rid of Mubarak will have been much easier than displacing or reforming all the little Mubaraks.
- michaelchisari 16y agoThat seems similar to the situation in Tunisia, and I'd say it's a common pattern that replicates itself whenever a country is under a dictatorship for decades. This is a really incredible success of the Egyptian people, but it's just the first step of De-Mubarak-ification.
- kilian 16y agoIf you can, I urge you to get a look of the live stream at aljazeera: http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/ http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/ The Tahir square is absolutely euphoric.
- elvirs 16y agoI'm very happy for Egyptian people. People of Egypt deserve a better leader, a better government. The guy who said 'I am ready to die' yesterday on CNN almost made me cry. Thats the spirit, and that spirit deserved a victory which they finally achieved. I hope the same happens for other nations that have been held under dictatorship for decades.
- sigzero 16y agoLet's hope that is what they get.
- csomar 16y agoDon't be very enthusiastic, especially for Egypt. They have got a very sensible position. They are Israel neighbor, they have the Suez Canal, and also the most populated Arabic country (They can become a power). That is, I don't think that the U.S will give up that easily. Also keep in mind, that the Arab nations want to unite. If you give the people the power, you'll see tomorrow that most of the borders are removed, which let the place for the building of a very strong and influential civilization. As I said in my other thread, we have just began and it'll be a very long road and will need a very long breath.
- MichaelSalib 16y ago
- BvS 16y agoReminds of 1989 here in Germany! Congratulation Egypt!
- zalew 16y agoWhich began in 1980 in Poland
- hcho 16y agoChecz had it even earlier.
- jarek 16y agoHungary '56. Let's not get into a contest here.
- zalew 16y agoWe could probably go back to the 50s and all the events all around the eastern block during those times but that was not the point. Just that the events around 1980 (Gdansk .pl, Velvet .cz.sk) started the domino effect which led to dropping the Berlin Wall and eventually failure of the USSR. No contest here.
- hcho 16y agoTo be pedantic, it was the economic inefficiencies of the communist bloc that started everything. Events were just inevitablities.
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- shareme 16y agothe bad thing is that HM stole $50 billion from the citizens of Egypt..and the USA does nothing and UN does nothing
- Vivtek 16y agoPerhaps a post-HM government can do something about it - now that there will be one.
- ceejayoz 16y agoThat $50 billion number seems to have been fished out of thin air. IIRC, the US government estimates his fortune at closer to $2 billion. Large, yes, but not at the same level.
- mdolon 16y agoThat makes me wonder though - he and many other rulers (I'm guessing) have amassed billions but are hush about it, so there's no telling who is funneling money and how much of it. It would be nice if Forbes added these rulers to their wealthiest people in the world lists.
- beambot 16y agoSeriously? To me, the difference between $2B and $50B seems like diminishing returns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diminishing_returns http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diminishing_returns). If you disagree, then I'd like to be you for a few days... ;-)
- ceejayoz 16y agoFor a person, yes - there's little you can't do with $2B that you can do with $50B. For a country, though, it's the difference between a single shuttle launch and three years of NASA's budget.
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- michaelchisari 16y ago"The struggle for justice should never be abandoned because of the apparent overwhelming power of those who seem invincible in their determination to hold on to it. That apparent power has, again and again, proved vulnerable to human qualities less measurable than bombs and dollars: moral fervor, determination, unity, organization, sacrifice, wit, ingenuity, courage, patience." - Howard Zinn
- xbryanx 16y agoWhen do we get to see who is really in power now? It's hilarious to me that all the pictures of the 1-10 powers in Egypt are grainy screengrabs from old TV programs.
- othello 16y agoAnd Mubarak's Wikipedia entry is already edited: Muhammad Hosni Sayyid Mubarak was the President of Egypt from 1981 to 2011. [1] History unfolding live indeed. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hosni_Mubarak http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hosni_Mubarak
- arepb 16y agoThe live stream is just incredible to watch. Just inspiring to hear these cheers http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/ http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/
- netmau5 16y agohttp://blogs.aljazeera.net/sites/default/files/imagecache/FeaturedImagePost/images/jomaaa.jpg http://blogs.aljazeera.net/sites/default/files/imagecache/Fe... This is one of the better images I've seen showing the pure scale of the protests. In the US, we had our "million man march" which questionably had so many people. In Egypt, many millions have been involved over the course of far longer than one day. With relation to their total population, the size of the movement is pretty mind boggling.
- larsberg 16y agoThe only time I've seen this many people gathered in one place in the US... is back when Chicago used to do a single, large fireworks display. I don't know whether that's a good or bad thing.
- JabavuAdams 16y agoInteresting (take-home?) interview question: how many people are in this picture? How confident are you of that number? What are your tightest upper and lower bounds?
- siculars 16y agoI am so happy for the people of Egypt. This is one for the history books. Our kids will be reading about this revolution as an example of the peaceful power of the people. I have to congratulate AlJazeera for their tremendous coverage of unfolding events. They have been very professional and fearless in their reporting. Western media should take notes. Who knows what tomorrow will bring but for now Egypt and the entire world can smile wide and celebrate. Mazal Tov to the people of Egypt!
- ido 16y agoMazal Tov to the people of Egypt! Why would you congratulate the people of Egypt in Hebrew?
- fleitz 16y agoI'd suspect that after enduring 30 years of struggle against a dictator that they wouldn't care what language they were cheered in. Most people just want to live in peace, it's only those who have an axe to grind that incite things by worrying what language someone is congratulated in.
- ido 16y agoHebrew is my mother-tongue, I have no axe to grind.
- siculars 16y agoWhy would it matter?
- ido 16y agoIt wouldn't, I assumed you spoke neither languages and have mistaken "mazal tov" for Arabic. It's "mabruk" btw.
- defen 16y agoWhen I see this kind of reaction, I can't help but think that the speaker is a "True Believer" in democracy and mob rule (in the Eric Hoffer sense). I readily concede that I know nothing about Egypt or what is going on there, but don't you think it's a little too early to congratulate and feel happy for the people? You even admit that no one knows what the country will be like in the next few years, but you want to celebrate, simply because they overthrew their president!
- mynameishere 16y agoOk. We'll see what happens. http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MB02Ak01.html http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MB02Ak01.html In the most fundamental matters, President and Mrs Mubarak are incomparably more enlightened than the Egyptian public.
- MichaelSalib 16y agoSo, does kidnapping innocent people off the streets, imprisoning them in dungeons and torturing them by wiring car batteries to their genitals count as "fundamental"? Or is that just one of those insignificant matters? What about stealing billions of dollars from your people? Is that a sign of enlightenment?
- mynameishere 16y ago"We'll see what happens." The discussions I've seen about Egypt seem to assume that it can be governed like the countries we're familiar with. Most of the things that seem evil are in fact cock-ups or unfortunate necessities. We learned about this after ousting Saddam Hussein, and were forced into all sorts of brutalities that indeed would not work well in the US or Britain.
- MichaelSalib 16y agoActually, I'm pretty sure that when you wire up a car battery to someone's genitals, that IS evil. That's not an unfortunate necessity. And its not a screwup. We learned about this after ousting Saddam Hussein, and were forced into all sorts of brutalities that indeed would not work well in the US or Britain. What did History ever do to you that compelled you to slander and malign it so?
- mynameishere 16y agoWhat did History ever do to you that compelled you to slander and malign it so? Are you just completely irrational or does this mean something? I honestly can't tell. My point is simply that regime change doesn't automatically generate the political equivilent of rainbow-shitting unicorns, which is what people seem to be assuming. Governments tend to be molded by circumstances more than we realize, and not the personality of such-and-such a strongman. "We'll see what happens," is my final analysis but the best guess is always repetition.
- fourspace 16y agoWhatever outcome may result over time, I'm happy for the people of Egypt. Once again, the desire to be free eventually overwhelms the arbitrary tyranny of a dictator. It will certainly be interesting to see if this leads to a domino effect in the Middle East and how it affects US foreign policy.
- yalforreca 16y agoPortugal had a revolution in 1974 that ended an dictatorship of more than 40 years. The Army was fed up with the colonial wars and persuaded by the left-wing illegal parties, took control of the country. Democracy exists in Portugal, but corruption and widespread cleptocracy by a small number of elite families still rule. I hope Egypt avoids that.
- philsalesses 16y agoThis is a side question and I'd like to get any/all opinions since I have yet to find a suitable answer to this. How do I, as an American citizen, minimize cognitive dissonance when the following disparate events occur? America's stance: democracy and 'freedom' are fundamental rights of all people. -and- America's actions: refusing to recognize a democratically elected body because the resulting will of the people is openly hostile towards America and Israel (Hamas winning seats in Palestinian elections).
- _djo_ 16y agoThe positions are not fundamentally opposed. You can believe that people have the right to choose their own leaders while also believing both that they should be accountable for that choice and that those leaders can be ignored or shunned if they do not follow the rules of the international community. In other words, the only legitimacy that being elected democratically confers on leaders is that of being the authentic representatives of their people. The greater legitimacy of a government as a member of the international community of states might be influenced by whether it's democratic or not but is determined mostly by that governments actions and stated intentions. Hamas has refused to agree to steps, such as renouncing terrorism, that the US, EU and Israel believe are fundamental to a government being a member of the international community. So they have accepted the results of the election, but they're under no obligation to be friendly with the result. With that said, like all great powers the US's foreign policy is at times hypocritical to some extent. It will extol the virtues of rapid democratic change in some countries while discouraging it in others. This seeming mismatch in standards is the problem with a foreign policy with an idealistic rhetoric but a realpolitik reality. The truth is that encouraging rapid democratic change in all cases would be foolish and irresponsible, because it could lead to far worse outcomes than the status quo. Some countries can handle that kind of explosive change, others can't and need to be shepherded towards it at a slower rate. I think Egypt falls into the latter category.
- philwelch 16y agoIs it really that difficult to imagine that the US would turn a cold shoulder to organizations that recruit suicide bombers to blow up buses and pizzerias? Even if they win an election?
- jim_h 16y agoIt's indeed been a roller-coaster. 2/10 morning - He's going to step down. 2/10 evening - He's not stepping down. 2/11 morning - He's really stepping down. Hopefully the rest of the ride will be less bumpy and more pleasant.
- logjam 16y agoAnother example of nonviolent action leading to real political change. Now if the U.S. government gets on the ball, they will redirect some substantial portion of the Egyptian ~$2 billion military aid and announce we will help build science and technical schools, universities, and hospitals. Thanks to those of you who have been hosting and continue to host Tor bridges in support of emerging democracies: https://www.torproject.org/docs/tor-doc-relay.html.en https://www.torproject.org/docs/tor-doc-relay.html.en
- stcredzero 16y agoredirect some substantial portion of the Egyptian ~$2 billion military aid and announce we will help build science and technical schools, universities, and hospitals Finding a way to ameliorate the corruption stifling the economy would have bigger bang for the buck.
- _djo_ 16y agoHalting or redirecting the military aid would be the worst thing the US could do, because it would force the military (the guys who are actually in charge now) into a corner, remove any hope of being able to co-operate with it and undermine the most important source of stability the country has. In any case, Egypt's security requirements are not going anywhere and the country will still have to maintain a sizable military in future, so cutting the funding will just mean that the state will have to obtain replacement funds from the national budget. Right now the $2 billion that the US gives to the Egyptian military is $2 billion that's freed up for the state to spend on other things like schools, universities and hospitals. That they don't do a good enough job of that already is due more to corruption than to any actual lack of funds.
- eftpotrm 16y agohttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12433045 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12433045 The BBC's Jon Leyne in Cairo said the announcement caught everyone by surprise, and all over the city drivers honked their horns and people fired guns into the air. But the army takeover looks very much like a military coup, our correspondent adds. The constitution has been breached, he says, because officially it should be the speaker of parliament who takes over, not the army leadership. Hope for the best, plan for the worst. So far the Egyptian military have been on the right side of this situation but we have no guarantees what happens next. This is the end of the beginning, not the end.
- codebaobab 16y agoStratfor is also calling this a coup: http://www.stratfor.com/analysis/20110211-red-alert-mubarak-resigns-military-in-charge http://www.stratfor.com/analysis/20110211-red-alert-mubarak-...
- ceejayoz 16y agoI'd say it's a revolution the army joined in on. Parliament is stacked with Mubarak's party, so having them take over wouldn't have been much of a change.
- tybris 16y agoMeanwhile, Israel is probably polishing its tanks and nukes.
- xster 16y agopuppet out, puppet in
- jackolas 16y agoThe swiss have frozen his assets: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/11/us-swiss-mubarak-idUSTRE71A58R20110211 http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/11/us-swiss-mubarak-i... I'm glad to see this, its the first step to sending him to the Hague.