5 ms·

Doesn't matter - Nokia will cancel Qt in the next round of budgets. The real question is how screwed are C++ developers in general? MSFT's offering is switch

Doesn't matter - Nokia will cancel Qt in the next round of budgets. The real question is how screwed are C++ developers in general? MSFT's offering is switch to managed C++/C++ CLR and use WPF - two doomed technologies together. Or there is always MFC Apple say don't even try with C++ just switch to objective C Your only choice is GTK (from C) and plug into the rich commercial opportunities of Gnome and Linux on the desktop. So is C++ on the desktop dead?

patrickaljord 16y ago
> So is C++ on the desktop dead? WebKit, chrome, firefox are C++ and probably so are tons of other apps/libs.
sid0 16y ago
A developer who is so dependent on one language/framework that he cannot learn another in a reasonable amount of time is one I have no sympathy for.
- kjhghjkjh 16y ago
  Learning Java is easy - porting 20years of libraries from C/C++ to Java is trickier. We only just got done porting them all from Fortran!
  - sid0 16y ago
    You could always use some sort of FFI. I don't think it's that big a deal, since you can still use C and C++ libraries on any desktop platforms + on Android.
    - xpaulbettsx 16y ago
      FFI to C++ is a frustratingly difficult task for a number of reasons (there's a great presentation from FOSDEM where the Mono guys try to do this, can't find it right now though). There's a reason why FFI is mostly done against C libraries.
      - sid0 16y ago
        Fair enough: I was thinking more about C than C++ there. I guess that for at least some libraries an FFI + a C to C++ glue layer might work. Now that I think of it, I'm happy with a C + high-level language future, and C++ programmers should pick up one or both of them.
- blub 16y ago
  It's not so much dependency as not seeing the point of relearning the same stuff under a different name. Neither C# nor Java offer tangible benefits over C++ for me. I don't learn anything new, I just have to memorize new APIs. Terribly wasteful.
blux 16y ago
Why would Qt die once Nokia looses interest in it? I am sure Qt can survive on its own.
- joezydeco 16y ago
  Qt as an open-source project will do just fine. My fear is that Nokia will let future development languish and/or restrict future commercial licenses. Nokia's track record to date hasn't shown anything this evil, but you never can tell.
- kjhghjkjh 16y ago
  How is OpenSolaris doing now that Sun has gone?
e1ven 16y ago
The nice thing is that QT is now fully OSS- LGPL and GPL versions. This means that development can go on outside of QT/Nokia. The difficult part is that there is no current team to do so, but some of the current devs may be willing to continue work in a leadership position of the OSS effort after the next rounds of layoffs. Alternatively, a company could be formed (YC12?) to continue coding QT, and offer support + training. Hell, I'm tempted ;)
xpaulbettsx 16y ago
I certainly hope C++ on the desktop is dead, there are far more productive languages for UI development. Obj-C, Ruby, Python, C# all come to mind. Show me a UI that a C++ programmer took a full week to build, and I can probably build it in an afternoon in C#/WPF.
- kjhghjkjh 16y ago
  Show me a Ruby, C# etc desktop app that took more than a week. Word, Excel, Autocad - fancy writing something like that in a toy language?
  - hapless 16y ago
    Word, Excel, and Autocad are all more than twenty years old. They date to an era when C++ was the only tool available. Furthermore, all of them can host modules written in "toy languages." Word and Excel are extended by VBS and C#. Autocad is extended by C# and AutoLisp.
- blub 16y ago
  Qt is better at building UIs than all of the above, with the possible exception of WPF. QML is supposed to be a declarative language similar to WPF that's accessible to Qt programs. The fact that you put Ruby and Python in your list shows that you're not up to date on UI technology.
  - xpaulbettsx 16y ago
    I'm saying that as a language, both of those could be used to make far more elegant UI frameworks. C++ doesn't have introspection without hacks - that in and of itself makes it painful to use. PyGTK+ is used pervasively throughout GNOME for UIs. Ruby has MacRuby which you can make great Cocoa UIs with less work than Obj-C.
blub 16y ago
I wouldn't say they're screwed. You can use C++ on all the mobile/desktop platforms (except on WP7) and many do, it's just that it's getting harder to do a C++ only app, you have to mix and match.

patrickaljord 16y ago

> So is C++ on the desktop dead? WebKit, chrome, firefox are C++ and probably so are tons of other apps/libs.

sid0 16y ago

A developer who is so dependent on one language/framework that he cannot learn another in a reasonable amount of time is one I have no sympathy for.

kjhghjkjh 16y ago
Learning Java is easy - porting 20years of libraries from C/C++ to Java is trickier. We only just got done porting them all from Fortran!
- sid0 16y ago
  You could always use some sort of FFI. I don't think it's that big a deal, since you can still use C and C++ libraries on any desktop platforms + on Android.
  - xpaulbettsx 16y ago
    FFI to C++ is a frustratingly difficult task for a number of reasons (there's a great presentation from FOSDEM where the Mono guys try to do this, can't find it right now though). There's a reason why FFI is mostly done against C libraries.
    - sid0 16y ago
      Fair enough: I was thinking more about C than C++ there. I guess that for at least some libraries an FFI + a C to C++ glue layer might work. Now that I think of it, I'm happy with a C + high-level language future, and C++ programmers should pick up one or both of them.
blub 16y ago
It's not so much dependency as not seeing the point of relearning the same stuff under a different name. Neither C# nor Java offer tangible benefits over C++ for me. I don't learn anything new, I just have to memorize new APIs. Terribly wasteful.

blux 16y ago

Why would Qt die once Nokia looses interest in it? I am sure Qt can survive on its own.

joezydeco 16y ago
Qt as an open-source project will do just fine. My fear is that Nokia will let future development languish and/or restrict future commercial licenses. Nokia's track record to date hasn't shown anything this evil, but you never can tell.
kjhghjkjh 16y ago
How is OpenSolaris doing now that Sun has gone?

e1ven 16y ago

The nice thing is that QT is now fully OSS- LGPL and GPL versions. This means that development can go on outside of QT/Nokia. The difficult part is that there is no current team to do so, but some of the current devs may be willing to continue work in a leadership position of the OSS effort after the next rounds of layoffs. Alternatively, a company could be formed (YC12?) to continue coding QT, and offer support + training. Hell, I'm tempted ;)

xpaulbettsx 16y ago

I certainly hope C++ on the desktop is dead, there are far more productive languages for UI development. Obj-C, Ruby, Python, C# all come to mind. Show me a UI that a C++ programmer took a full week to build, and I can probably build it in an afternoon in C#/WPF.

kjhghjkjh 16y ago
Show me a Ruby, C# etc desktop app that took more than a week. Word, Excel, Autocad - fancy writing something like that in a toy language?
- hapless 16y ago
  Word, Excel, and Autocad are all more than twenty years old. They date to an era when C++ was the only tool available. Furthermore, all of them can host modules written in "toy languages." Word and Excel are extended by VBS and C#. Autocad is extended by C# and AutoLisp.
blub 16y ago
Qt is better at building UIs than all of the above, with the possible exception of WPF. QML is supposed to be a declarative language similar to WPF that's accessible to Qt programs. The fact that you put Ruby and Python in your list shows that you're not up to date on UI technology.
- xpaulbettsx 16y ago
  I'm saying that as a language, both of those could be used to make far more elegant UI frameworks. C++ doesn't have introspection without hacks - that in and of itself makes it painful to use. PyGTK+ is used pervasively throughout GNOME for UIs. Ruby has MacRuby which you can make great Cocoa UIs with less work than Obj-C.

blub 16y ago

I wouldn't say they're screwed. You can use C++ on all the mobile/desktop platforms (except on WP7) and many do, it's just that it's getting harder to do a C++ only app, you have to mix and match.