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No IAP and no ads? How does a game studio should earn money then? Knowing the fact that business model of games are moving to free to play and than players are

No IAP and no ads? How does a game studio should earn money then? Knowing the fact that business model of games are moving to free to play and than players are now reluctant more than ever to pay a decent price for a game but prefer spend 5x more little by little? Do you intend to reverse the trend? Real question, no trolling. How a game studio can make money with a F2P game? Or how can we make money from a free 2 play NoBullshit™ game. Disclaimer: I'm a game developer, I make a MMO F2P mobile game with IAP and ads. EDIT: I'm not trying to discuss why a F2P with IAP and ads is not always a Bullshit game, you guess that I'm trying to do things well.

someone7x 7y ago
You say the business model is moving to F2P but that is only part of the story. In the complete opposite direction we have Kickstarter et al. Now perhaps the “get filthy rich” business model is only sustainable by freemium addiction (they pay 5x!). At this point it’s more about greed/entitlement than than it is starving artists getting their bone.
- Fr33maan 7y ago
  Thanks for your answer. Factually, kickstarter is not a business model, it's a way to get some seed money from future players. Once the game goes out you still need to have a business model. Making a game can be an artist job but it also can be a business which is expected to grow, fast and strong as any business. I found the use of the word "greed" extremely opinionated. Is CEO of Amazon greed ? Greed let suppose that it's accumulating money in a selfish way, which seems to be a pretty bad stuff. I might not understand the nuance as I'm not a native english speaker but I find really strange to link the desire of making money with the "greed" word. You are maybe right, maybe it's only possible to consider video games as a sustainable business with freemium addiction. I really ask the question
  - someone7x 7y ago
    > Strange to link the desire of money with the “greed” word. Is it? I didn’t even go full avarice. There is desire for fair compensation and there is greed. Diluting a product with IAP and Ads is to treat your players like serfs to be squeezed for “LTV”. Imagine buying a car where increasing the fuel economy for the next n hours required an “in-dashboard-payment”? It’s dilution to make money, aka greed.
    - Fr33maan 7y ago
      Yeah, diluting the product with ads and IAP is a really bullshit way of doing game. I think I just misunderstood the post because none of the answer I got goes in the direction of my post. IAP are fine, ads are fine, subs are fine, DLC are fine. Bullshit pattern aren't.
Ardon 7y ago
Just charge for the game. Most of the games listed here are $2-$5 dollars. I imagine the lowest-bullshit way to sustain an MMO would be a normal subscription. Though I'm not sure this is the list for you, regardless.
- Fr33maan 7y ago
  Well if mandatory subscription is not bullshit then why not. But i do prefer to offer the game for free so everybody can enjoy it. Mandatory sub is a huge toll in term of marketing. If you are not Blizzard then it's really harder to market fit with less players. Another argument against sub (for me) is that the game will be much more fun with more players.
  - twoquestions 7y ago
    Being able to pay to remove adds is OK according to the site, he refers to it as a demo or trial. So long as you can pay to get rid of ads and the IAP aren't pay-to-win (Warframe does this pretty well) I'd argue it's not Bullshit.
    - Fr33maan 7y ago
      Well I totally agree with you and that's clearly my aim.
    - imtringued 7y ago
      I agree Warframe is a "No-Bullshit" game but you still need real money to buy slots for weapons and Warframes. This is a game where you are supposed to acquire as many of those as possible to complete your collection kinda like Pokemon. It's more of a pay-as-you-go model.
krilly 7y ago
I personally have paid money for no bullshit mobile games, and I know there are at least a few million people like me. Why is that hard to believe?
- Fr33maan 7y ago
  It might be then the definition of the NoBullshit. It's pretty extremist in the OP website. If there is ingame currency, then it's bullshit. If there is IAP then it's bullshit. If there is ads then it's bullshit.
  - someone7x 7y ago
    When the designers’ and data scientists’ goal is to squeeze rather than entertain, then its bullshit.
    - Fr33maan 7y ago
      That's pretty clear and I understand this definition. But then, having IAP, ads, DLC, subs does not make a game a bullshit game if it's balanced.
      - nottorp 7y ago
        Right. Show me one of those. More, show me one of those that will stay that way in the future, when they get an investor who presses them for more revenue.
      - Fr33maan 7y ago
        Warframe
distantsounds 7y ago
maybe don't compete with the simplistic games that don't require ads or in-app purchases? or produce a quality product that people are willing to pay for. if you need your hand held to come to these conclusions perhaps you're in the wrong business.
- Fr33maan 7y ago
  I don't compete with that kind of games but IAP/ads is the business model of 99% of games which makes money, which is obviously a goal. Producing a product of quality is a top priority but it's not enough, you need marketing too in order to have market adoption. There is many games of quality that people don't want to buy. Making a paying game in 2020 on mobile is definitely a wrong strategy choice for most of the games.
nottorp 7y ago
Well some players are willing to pay for games, and moreover won't even look at your product when they see it has IAPs. I, for one, can't afford free to play games.
StavrosK 7y ago
There are plenty of games with IAP and ads on that list, nobody said that a game with IAP is always bullshit. In fact, that's the opposite of what the guidelines say: https://nobsgames.stavros.io/help/ https://nobsgames.stavros.io/help/
- Fr33maan 7y ago
  I missed that page. I looked at the front page and answered to the post. Thx for linking the guidelines page
falcolas 7y ago
> How does a game studio should earn money then? I'll echo others: Charge money. Don't hide the actual cost behind a bevy of different and confusing currencies. Ads are attention vampires, and are not consumer friendly despite their innocuous appearances. I'd also posit that in-game ads will not be sustainable long term. There's already a huge backlash against ads on web pages, I think that games are going to be close behind. Sites like this are only the start of that trend. > How a game studio can make money with a F2P game? Ask Epic games how they made money. Or don't ask, they've talked about it extensively. I'm not fond of the side effect of peer pressure against kids to get money, but the model is otherwise fairly sound. > why a F2P with IAP and ads is not always a Bullshit game Ads are bullshit. Gambling mechanics hidden as IAP are bullshit. Allowing individuals to spend hundreds and thousands of dollars on a mobile game is bullshit. Avoid those, and you will avoid a lot of the worst blowback.

someone7x 7y ago

You say the business model is moving to F2P but that is only part of the story. In the complete opposite direction we have Kickstarter et al. Now perhaps the “get filthy rich” business model is only sustainable by freemium addiction (they pay 5x!). At this point it’s more about greed/entitlement than than it is starving artists getting their bone.

Fr33maan 7y ago
Thanks for your answer. Factually, kickstarter is not a business model, it's a way to get some seed money from future players. Once the game goes out you still need to have a business model. Making a game can be an artist job but it also can be a business which is expected to grow, fast and strong as any business. I found the use of the word "greed" extremely opinionated. Is CEO of Amazon greed ? Greed let suppose that it's accumulating money in a selfish way, which seems to be a pretty bad stuff. I might not understand the nuance as I'm not a native english speaker but I find really strange to link the desire of making money with the "greed" word. You are maybe right, maybe it's only possible to consider video games as a sustainable business with freemium addiction. I really ask the question
- someone7x 7y ago
  > Strange to link the desire of money with the “greed” word. Is it? I didn’t even go full avarice. There is desire for fair compensation and there is greed. Diluting a product with IAP and Ads is to treat your players like serfs to be squeezed for “LTV”. Imagine buying a car where increasing the fuel economy for the next n hours required an “in-dashboard-payment”? It’s dilution to make money, aka greed.
  - Fr33maan 7y ago
    Yeah, diluting the product with ads and IAP is a really bullshit way of doing game. I think I just misunderstood the post because none of the answer I got goes in the direction of my post. IAP are fine, ads are fine, subs are fine, DLC are fine. Bullshit pattern aren't.

Ardon 7y ago

Just charge for the game. Most of the games listed here are $2-$5 dollars. I imagine the lowest-bullshit way to sustain an MMO would be a normal subscription. Though I'm not sure this is the list for you, regardless.

Fr33maan 7y ago
Well if mandatory subscription is not bullshit then why not. But i do prefer to offer the game for free so everybody can enjoy it. Mandatory sub is a huge toll in term of marketing. If you are not Blizzard then it's really harder to market fit with less players. Another argument against sub (for me) is that the game will be much more fun with more players.
- twoquestions 7y ago
  Being able to pay to remove adds is OK according to the site, he refers to it as a demo or trial. So long as you can pay to get rid of ads and the IAP aren't pay-to-win (Warframe does this pretty well) I'd argue it's not Bullshit.
  - Fr33maan 7y ago
    Well I totally agree with you and that's clearly my aim.
  - imtringued 7y ago
    I agree Warframe is a "No-Bullshit" game but you still need real money to buy slots for weapons and Warframes. This is a game where you are supposed to acquire as many of those as possible to complete your collection kinda like Pokemon. It's more of a pay-as-you-go model.

krilly 7y ago

I personally have paid money for no bullshit mobile games, and I know there are at least a few million people like me. Why is that hard to believe?

Fr33maan 7y ago
It might be then the definition of the NoBullshit. It's pretty extremist in the OP website. If there is ingame currency, then it's bullshit. If there is IAP then it's bullshit. If there is ads then it's bullshit.
- someone7x 7y ago
  When the designers’ and data scientists’ goal is to squeeze rather than entertain, then its bullshit.
  - Fr33maan 7y ago
    That's pretty clear and I understand this definition. But then, having IAP, ads, DLC, subs does not make a game a bullshit game if it's balanced.
    - nottorp 7y ago
      Right. Show me one of those. More, show me one of those that will stay that way in the future, when they get an investor who presses them for more revenue.
    - Fr33maan 7y ago
      Warframe

distantsounds 7y ago

maybe don't compete with the simplistic games that don't require ads or in-app purchases? or produce a quality product that people are willing to pay for. if you need your hand held to come to these conclusions perhaps you're in the wrong business.

Fr33maan 7y ago
I don't compete with that kind of games but IAP/ads is the business model of 99% of games which makes money, which is obviously a goal. Producing a product of quality is a top priority but it's not enough, you need marketing too in order to have market adoption. There is many games of quality that people don't want to buy. Making a paying game in 2020 on mobile is definitely a wrong strategy choice for most of the games.

nottorp 7y ago

Well some players are willing to pay for games, and moreover won't even look at your product when they see it has IAPs. I, for one, can't afford free to play games.

StavrosK 7y ago

There are plenty of games with IAP and ads on that list, nobody said that a game with IAP is always bullshit. In fact, that's the opposite of what the guidelines say: https://nobsgames.stavros.io/help/ https://nobsgames.stavros.io/help/

Fr33maan 7y ago
I missed that page. I looked at the front page and answered to the post. Thx for linking the guidelines page

falcolas 7y ago

> How does a game studio should earn money then? I'll echo others: Charge money. Don't hide the actual cost behind a bevy of different and confusing currencies. Ads are attention vampires, and are not consumer friendly despite their innocuous appearances. I'd also posit that in-game ads will not be sustainable long term. There's already a huge backlash against ads on web pages, I think that games are going to be close behind. Sites like this are only the start of that trend. > How a game studio can make money with a F2P game? Ask Epic games how they made money. Or don't ask, they've talked about it extensively. I'm not fond of the side effect of peer pressure against kids to get money, but the model is otherwise fairly sound. > why a F2P with IAP and ads is not always a Bullshit game Ads are bullshit. Gambling mechanics hidden as IAP are bullshit. Allowing individuals to spend hundreds and thousands of dollars on a mobile game is bullshit. Avoid those, and you will avoid a lot of the worst blowback.