4 ms·

To me that's a very surprising view. Ample space does not seem to be one of those luxurious features, that's for sure.

by Luc 7y ago

nizmow 7y ago
My wife and I were hunting for a new apartment a few years ago, and after looking a few houses in a village around 30km from Amsterdam we stopped at the local pub for a drink. Got to talking with an old local and explained that we were torn whether to live closer to the city, or get a place here that has a lot more space. He said to us, "More space? What's the point of that? All you'll do is put useless things in it. Move to the city." He was right of course.
- eecc 7y ago
  Well, as far as I have seen space in the Dutch sense is not about functionally rather for show. Living room. A lot of living room, something you could play soccer in (or have many friends for dinner.) Bedrooms, studies, bathrooms as small and cramped as feasible
  - jbverschoor 7y ago
    It's not for show. It's design 101. You spend the most time in the livingroom, diningroom or kitchen, so it makes sense to use the most space for that. There's only so much space you can divide up.
warp 7y ago
The Netherlands is densely populated. There isn't as much space available compared to most other countries.
- Luc 7y ago
  There is though. It's just (mainly) used for agriculture.
  - AllegedAlec 7y ago
    What? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/Population_density_countries_2018_world_map%2C_people_per_sq_km.svg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/Populati... That blackish blob in Europe is the Netherlands.
    - arethuza 7y ago
      That's showing the average across the entire country - sounds a bit like the UK where average population density figures for the entire country are a bit misleading as there are substantial chunks of the country that are pretty empty: https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/news/nr/land-cover-atlas-uk-1.744440 https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/news/nr/land-cover-atlas-uk-1.74...
    - brnt 7y ago
      When I am abroad, I tend to describe it as Bangladesh on the Rhine. Your map proves my point ;)
    - Luc 7y ago
      Have a look on Google Maps instead. What's north of Amsterdam-North? Fields. It's a political choice, a matter of spatial planning, to live this densly.
      - eecc 7y ago
        There’s also a big toxic waste dump that makes that area verboten for the foreseeable future https://www.volgermeer.nl/Geschiedenis/Stortplaats/ https://www.volgermeer.nl/Geschiedenis/Stortplaats/
      - AllegedAlec 7y ago
        > Even Groningen (the Province) has a population density of 252, about 7 times as high as the US's average of 33.6/km2. How fucking hard it is to read a reply to the same thread which says the exact same thing? There is no part of the Netherlands that is not, on a global scale, not densely populated.
    - 7y ago
- mrarjen 7y ago
  This is mainly the case in the cities, other area's offer more space that is similar to other countries. Also Amsterdam is the peak of tiny spaces here. Single bedroom 25 m2, with shared toilet/kitchen for sale can cost you €100.000,- easily.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - thijsvandien 7y ago
    I just checked funda.nl, one of the most popular property websites, and that amount currently doesn't even buy you half that space anymore.
patall 7y ago
A lot of people have come to the conclusion that lots of space in the house is not really luxurious but just space that you have to keep clean and pay the bills for. I know a few middle aged couples who begun to regard 800ft² of living space as maximum (not including basement etc.), some even with 2 kids, and plenty of older people who like to have less. And that's certainly not the tiny house guys. It's similar to the stuff Marie Kondo talks about. Plenty of space in the garden is different, obviously.
- CalRobert 7y ago
  If you're living in a small house it can be a little hard not to be envious. Our house is 517 square feet (48 square meters) interior space and it's challenging when the baby's crying wakes the toddler. Without kids, though, it would be plenty (tbf I have a big shed outside for projects and bikes which helps a lot)
Aeolun 7y ago
Most (contemporary) Dutch houses are somewhere in the 100-160sqm range. How is that not generous?
- gbear605 7y ago
  The house I grew up in in the US was considered on the small side at 2600 sqft (240 sqm). Partly the size of your family matters, but mostly I think it’s just cultural expectations.
  - raverbashing 7y ago
    (Speaking from experience) Those American house sizes look good on paper until you have to do maintenance/cleaning etc. Unless you have a specific need for more space (maybe a workshop, etc) I would avoid the bigger sized houses.
    - rayiner 7y ago
      Big houses get less dirty. If you’re not religious about cleaning up a small place it gets hard to manage. (It’s like swapping to HD. You have to move stuff so you can move other stuff to get stuff into place.)
      - nitrogen 7y ago
        This is true. Once you have the minimal set of things you need for your lifestyle, having more space for those things makes it easier to keep everything clean. This breaks down if you acquire new things to fill unused space though.
  - CalRobert 7y ago
    Energy for heating and cooling is really cheap in the US too. Garages are far more common too (not sure if you're including that)
  - tallanvor 7y ago
    That's the average house size in the US now, not on the small side. 45 years ago the average house was around 1600 sqft. For apartments, the average size is 941 sqft, which is down about 5% over the last 10 years.

To me that's a very surprising view. Ample space does not seem to be one of those luxurious features, that's for sure.

by Luc 7y ago

To me that's a very surprising view. Ample space does not seem to be one of those luxurious features, that's for sure.

My wife and I were hunting for a new apartment a few years ago, and after looking a few houses in a village around 30km from Amsterdam we stopped at the local pub for a drink. Got to talking with an old local and explained that we were torn whether to live closer to the city, or get a place here that has a lot more space. He said to us, "More space? What's the point of that? All you'll do is put useless things in it. Move to the city." He was right of course.

eecc 7y ago
Well, as far as I have seen space in the Dutch sense is not about functionally rather for show. Living room. A lot of living room, something you could play soccer in (or have many friends for dinner.) Bedrooms, studies, bathrooms as small and cramped as feasible
- jbverschoor 7y ago
  It's not for show. It's design 101. You spend the most time in the livingroom, diningroom or kitchen, so it makes sense to use the most space for that. There's only so much space you can divide up.

warp 7y ago

The Netherlands is densely populated. There isn't as much space available compared to most other countries.

Luc 7y ago
There is though. It's just (mainly) used for agriculture.
- AllegedAlec 7y ago
  What? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/Population_density_countries_2018_world_map%2C_people_per_sq_km.svg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/Populati... That blackish blob in Europe is the Netherlands.
  - arethuza 7y ago
    That's showing the average across the entire country - sounds a bit like the UK where average population density figures for the entire country are a bit misleading as there are substantial chunks of the country that are pretty empty: https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/news/nr/land-cover-atlas-uk-1.744440 https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/news/nr/land-cover-atlas-uk-1.74...
  - brnt 7y ago
    When I am abroad, I tend to describe it as Bangladesh on the Rhine. Your map proves my point ;)
  - Luc 7y ago
    Have a look on Google Maps instead. What's north of Amsterdam-North? Fields. It's a political choice, a matter of spatial planning, to live this densly.
    - eecc 7y ago
      There’s also a big toxic waste dump that makes that area verboten for the foreseeable future https://www.volgermeer.nl/Geschiedenis/Stortplaats/ https://www.volgermeer.nl/Geschiedenis/Stortplaats/
    - AllegedAlec 7y ago
      > Even Groningen (the Province) has a population density of 252, about 7 times as high as the US's average of 33.6/km2. How fucking hard it is to read a reply to the same thread which says the exact same thing? There is no part of the Netherlands that is not, on a global scale, not densely populated.
  - 7y ago
mrarjen 7y ago
This is mainly the case in the cities, other area's offer more space that is similar to other countries. Also Amsterdam is the peak of tiny spaces here. Single bedroom 25 m2, with shared toilet/kitchen for sale can cost you €100.000,- easily.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- thijsvandien 7y ago
  I just checked funda.nl, one of the most popular property websites, and that amount currently doesn't even buy you half that space anymore.

patall 7y ago

A lot of people have come to the conclusion that lots of space in the house is not really luxurious but just space that you have to keep clean and pay the bills for. I know a few middle aged couples who begun to regard 800ft² of living space as maximum (not including basement etc.), some even with 2 kids, and plenty of older people who like to have less. And that's certainly not the tiny house guys. It's similar to the stuff Marie Kondo talks about. Plenty of space in the garden is different, obviously.

CalRobert 7y ago
If you're living in a small house it can be a little hard not to be envious. Our house is 517 square feet (48 square meters) interior space and it's challenging when the baby's crying wakes the toddler. Without kids, though, it would be plenty (tbf I have a big shed outside for projects and bikes which helps a lot)

Aeolun 7y ago

Most (contemporary) Dutch houses are somewhere in the 100-160sqm range. How is that not generous?

gbear605 7y ago
The house I grew up in in the US was considered on the small side at 2600 sqft (240 sqm). Partly the size of your family matters, but mostly I think it’s just cultural expectations.
- raverbashing 7y ago
  (Speaking from experience) Those American house sizes look good on paper until you have to do maintenance/cleaning etc. Unless you have a specific need for more space (maybe a workshop, etc) I would avoid the bigger sized houses.
  - rayiner 7y ago
    Big houses get less dirty. If you’re not religious about cleaning up a small place it gets hard to manage. (It’s like swapping to HD. You have to move stuff so you can move other stuff to get stuff into place.)
    - nitrogen 7y ago
      This is true. Once you have the minimal set of things you need for your lifestyle, having more space for those things makes it easier to keep everything clean. This breaks down if you acquire new things to fill unused space though.
- CalRobert 7y ago
  Energy for heating and cooling is really cheap in the US too. Garages are far more common too (not sure if you're including that)
- tallanvor 7y ago
  That's the average house size in the US now, not on the small side. 45 years ago the average house was around 1600 sqft. For apartments, the average size is 941 sqft, which is down about 5% over the last 10 years.