5 ms·

The website doesn't load for me but the monitor is available here https://www.waveshare.com/product/oleds-lcds/e-paper/eink-disp-103.htm https://www.waveshare.c

The website doesn't load for me but the monitor is available here https://www.waveshare.com/product/oleds-lcds/e-paper/eink-disp-103.htm https://www.waveshare.com/product/oleds-lcds/e-paper/eink-di... Unfortunately vendors are somehow constitutionally incapable of providing useful technical information for eInk displays. It's so frustrating that there's a huge graphic extolling it's FPGA based refresh technology but actual technical information is almost completely absent. Why can't I just get a datasheet? I'll summarize here so other people don't have to grep through this mess. HDMI input 1872×1404 5V/3A ~5Hz refresh in mode A2 There are 3 modes, GC16, A2 and A2+, no technical information is provided but there are some tiny (simulated?) screenshots. It appears that mode A2, the "high refresh rate" one is purely black and white with no gray.

jwr 7y ago
5V/3A (15W) — that sounds like a LOT for an e-ink display!
- r3drock 7y ago
  It only uses electricity when it refreshes, so it does not seem that high.
  - fnord77 7y ago
    if you're typing something, wouldn't be constantly refreshing?
    - rustybolt 7y ago
      Most e-ink displays only refresh sections. So if you type a letter, it really only draws the letter. If you scroll however, the whole screen needs to be updated.
      - agumonkey 7y ago
        unless the software stack has a degraded mode for power saving
- VLM 7y ago
  A popular amount of power for USB type device chargers, so economy of scale applies. Economy of scale makes weird pricing happen. Right now on digikey you can buy a "SWI25-12-E-P5" 25 watt PSU for $11.95, or a "KTPS12-12010WA-VI-P1" 12 watt PSU for $12.21. Both are wall mount class 2 supplies, level 2 efficiency standards, even the same connector. The cheaper one has a longer cord, LOL, as yet another weird example of economies of scale. If your application requires 10 watts, a 25 watt supply will quite happily provide 10 watts and run extremely cool for a long time compared to a 12 watt supply being asked to provide 10 watts. I will admit that one mfgr chased safety approvals for euro countries and the other chased safety approvals for USA/Asian countries, but for hobbyist one off purposes, something that passes TUV/CE is approximately as good as something that passed UL, and if you want to sell commercially in the US its usually a paperwork transaction to cross approve something. A bigger problem is X% where X is pretty large, of chinese mgfr equipment has fake safety marks. So for hobbyist purposes you're far safer using a genuine TUV approved supply in the US than graymarket gear with a fake UL mark. So there are minor differences. It would be non-trivial to design something that could pass TUV but fail UL, although someone out there has probably succeeded in the past. The real world market is not magically 100% efficient, so you can absolutely pay 26 cents more for a supply with a shorter cable and lower power output.
bebna 7y ago
Does anyone got weight?
teruakohatu 7y ago
I don't think they are incapable, they are actively hiding information. Ben Krasnow had to reverse engineer a screen to figure out how to better refresh it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsbiO8EAsGw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsbiO8EAsGw Eink could have changed the world, yet the only eink display I and many people have it our kindle.
- TuringTest 7y ago
  That screen is terribly slow, even by e-ink standars. "Canvas" displays, developed by reMarkable and commercialized by Onyx, have a minimum lag of about 25ms (for writing) and a rendering mode call "A2" that makes it user interaction quite fast for e-ink,[1] serviceable even for watching video [2]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeUCFAU4QGU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeUCFAU4QGU [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4VSGgnQD2I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4VSGgnQD2I
  - jmiserez 7y ago
    IIRC Canvas displays were not developed by reMarkable, it just uses one. But one of the key selling points was that the reMarkable didn't use the vendor display driver for that Canvas display, but instead they wrote a faster one. I have some Canvas-based devices and the screen lag varies quite a bit (the reMarkable screen is faster).
    - TuringTest 7y ago
      As I understand it, reMarkable claims[1] to have developed CANVAS from the ground-up on top of Carta technology, in close collaboration with E Ink. It may be as you say and they developed just the drivers, but I believe from their press releases that they are responsible for some breakthrough detail to accelerate refresh, that E Ink didn't think was possible (something to do with a waveform transmission signal to transfer pixels to the screen). They were the first to build the technology to bring refresh times for writing near the 50ms mark, and hold the patent about it (AFAIK they license this patent to other builders who use Canvas). [1] https://support.remarkable.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002647518-CANVAS-Display- https://support.remarkable.com/hc/en-us/articles/36000264751...
cwt137 7y ago
The display probably uses the same or similar chip as their other 10.3 display. It has A2, G16 modes and stuff too. http://www.waveshare.net/w/upload/c/c4/E-paper-mode-declaration.pdf http://www.waveshare.net/w/upload/c/c4/E-paper-mode-declarat...

jwr 7y ago

5V/3A (15W) — that sounds like a LOT for an e-ink display!

r3drock 7y ago
It only uses electricity when it refreshes, so it does not seem that high.
- fnord77 7y ago
  if you're typing something, wouldn't be constantly refreshing?
  - rustybolt 7y ago
    Most e-ink displays only refresh sections. So if you type a letter, it really only draws the letter. If you scroll however, the whole screen needs to be updated.
    - agumonkey 7y ago
      unless the software stack has a degraded mode for power saving
VLM 7y ago
A popular amount of power for USB type device chargers, so economy of scale applies. Economy of scale makes weird pricing happen. Right now on digikey you can buy a "SWI25-12-E-P5" 25 watt PSU for $11.95, or a "KTPS12-12010WA-VI-P1" 12 watt PSU for $12.21. Both are wall mount class 2 supplies, level 2 efficiency standards, even the same connector. The cheaper one has a longer cord, LOL, as yet another weird example of economies of scale. If your application requires 10 watts, a 25 watt supply will quite happily provide 10 watts and run extremely cool for a long time compared to a 12 watt supply being asked to provide 10 watts. I will admit that one mfgr chased safety approvals for euro countries and the other chased safety approvals for USA/Asian countries, but for hobbyist one off purposes, something that passes TUV/CE is approximately as good as something that passed UL, and if you want to sell commercially in the US its usually a paperwork transaction to cross approve something. A bigger problem is X% where X is pretty large, of chinese mgfr equipment has fake safety marks. So for hobbyist purposes you're far safer using a genuine TUV approved supply in the US than graymarket gear with a fake UL mark. So there are minor differences. It would be non-trivial to design something that could pass TUV but fail UL, although someone out there has probably succeeded in the past. The real world market is not magically 100% efficient, so you can absolutely pay 26 cents more for a supply with a shorter cable and lower power output.

bebna 7y ago

Does anyone got weight?

teruakohatu 7y ago

I don't think they are incapable, they are actively hiding information. Ben Krasnow had to reverse engineer a screen to figure out how to better refresh it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsbiO8EAsGw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsbiO8EAsGw Eink could have changed the world, yet the only eink display I and many people have it our kindle.

TuringTest 7y ago
That screen is terribly slow, even by e-ink standars. "Canvas" displays, developed by reMarkable and commercialized by Onyx, have a minimum lag of about 25ms (for writing) and a rendering mode call "A2" that makes it user interaction quite fast for e-ink,[1] serviceable even for watching video [2]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeUCFAU4QGU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeUCFAU4QGU [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4VSGgnQD2I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4VSGgnQD2I
- jmiserez 7y ago
  IIRC Canvas displays were not developed by reMarkable, it just uses one. But one of the key selling points was that the reMarkable didn't use the vendor display driver for that Canvas display, but instead they wrote a faster one. I have some Canvas-based devices and the screen lag varies quite a bit (the reMarkable screen is faster).
  - TuringTest 7y ago
    As I understand it, reMarkable claims[1] to have developed CANVAS from the ground-up on top of Carta technology, in close collaboration with E Ink. It may be as you say and they developed just the drivers, but I believe from their press releases that they are responsible for some breakthrough detail to accelerate refresh, that E Ink didn't think was possible (something to do with a waveform transmission signal to transfer pixels to the screen). They were the first to build the technology to bring refresh times for writing near the 50ms mark, and hold the patent about it (AFAIK they license this patent to other builders who use Canvas). [1] https://support.remarkable.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002647518-CANVAS-Display- https://support.remarkable.com/hc/en-us/articles/36000264751...

cwt137 7y ago

The display probably uses the same or similar chip as their other 10.3 display. It has A2, G16 modes and stuff too. http://www.waveshare.net/w/upload/c/c4/E-paper-mode-declaration.pdf http://www.waveshare.net/w/upload/c/c4/E-paper-mode-declarat...