12 ms·

Brendan Eich has a helpful chart of Compensation of Highest paid executive at Mozilla vs Firefox market share over time. https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status

by dman 7y ago

Brendan Eich has a helpful chart of Compensation of Highest paid executive at Mozilla vs Firefox market share over time. https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/1217512049716035584/photo/1 https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/1217512049716035584/p...

dralley 7y ago
I don't much care for Eich but that graph (as in, what it represents) is just shameful.
- aidenn0 7y ago
  The salary of top executives has gone way up in the past 20 years or so across industries, and largely without relation to company performance.
  - BrendanEich 7y ago
    Nice deflection. I'm a founder of mozilla.org, Mitchell joined 8 months after, we worked closely for 15+ years. She set the salaries with board approval, always made somewhat more than I did, I never complained. Neither of us was making more than high six figures, until after I left. Something changed, and it is not generic to "industries". No excuses!
    - aidenn0 7y ago
      I didn't intend for it to come off as a deflection, though I see that it would be easy to read it that way. I agree that something changed at Mozilla, but I've seen it get justified at other previously reasonable organizations with excuses like "everyone else is doing it," or "This is still below-market rate for C-level talent." The fact that it's happening everywhere doesn't make it less nauseating. [edit] Mitchell could drop her salary to a "mere" 6 figures and lay off 7 fewer people, but you hardly ever see executives do things like that.
- BrendanEich 7y ago
  Remember, I'm the bad guy. Ignore this looting operation amid market share tanking, also do please ignore past board members tied to Epstein. It's all about me. :-/
  - IGotThroughIt 7y ago
    Ha ha. I love Brendan. Saying it like it is. No-frills.
dpflan 7y ago
Wow. This makes me wince. My mind is making an emotional connection here to the .org fiasco and recent posts about "the internet of yore". Something(s) odd, unethical seems to be brewing/happening.
malachismith 7y ago
To be clear... this charts the comp of ONE person at Mozilla (the Board Chair - and now interim CEO).
- iamaelephant 7y ago
  What's your point? That was already immediately clear from the comment, the tweet and the chart. So what's your angle?
  - nothrabannosir 7y ago
    It really wasn’t clear to me at all until I read this comment. I interpreted the tweet (and GP) to mean “this chart tracks CEO pay at Mozilla, regardless of who the CEO is.” Seeing this comment completely changed the perspective for me, so it was helpful. There’s no need for aspersions.
- bscphil 7y ago
  I think your point is the most important one. This is not "Compensation of Highest paid executive at Mozilla vs Firefox market share" as Eich says. This appears to be a misleading graph of how much one guy has been paid. His salary went way up in 2016, unsurprisingly (shortly after Eich was fired), and Firefox has continued its downward slide from when Eich was there.
  - BrendanEich 7y ago
    Read more carefully: 1. The increase was in 2017, reported per IRS regs in Mozilla Foundation's Form 990 filing (which must list all comp to board members even if they work for the for-profit Mozilla Corporation subsidiary). 2. The "one guy" is Mitchell Baker, and she is chair of both foundation and corporation boards. But nice try attempting to pin blame on market share slide these last almost six years on me.
    - bscphil 7y ago
      In your Twitter thread you claimed it was a "chart for top job" at Mozilla. Will you now say that was false, that Baker was not the highest paid employee for the duration of that chart?
throwaway123x2 7y ago
It's crazy how much FF's marketshare has dropped. It's such a great browser.
- zys5945 7y ago
  It was
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - mjhagen 7y ago
    When have you last used it?
- lizzard 7y ago
  It is definitely a great browser. I think the market share dropping has a lot to do with browser lockin on specific hardware, and site-specific apps being used more and more. We are losing more and more of the open, public infrastructure of the open web.
- pier25 7y ago
  Hmm I don't know. I switched to FF 4 months ago and while the engine and dev tools are great, it's simply not as polished as the competition. For example just look at the alert popups[0], or the non native contextual menus, or the video pop icon. The UI is full of little quirks like that. The tab bar is by far the ugliest one of all current browsers, at least on macOS. It also misses important features such as multilingual spell checking. For people writing in multiple languages it's a real PITA. I know this functionality can be added with an extension but it slows down FF too much IMO. [0] https://imgur.com/lODjWSm https://imgur.com/lODjWSm
  - madeofpalk 7y ago
    I think that alert's design is actually a _feature_. Safari made a similar change a while back not make the alerts look like system UI, to prevent phishing and similar attacks.
paul7986 7y ago
Seems odd in his tweet he noted he was unable to get funding in the valley for Brave. The guy created JavaScript and was a creator of Firefox. Don't get it ..as JS alone has contributed like how much to world economies, as well to almost every HN reader's wallet/bank.
- aidenn0 7y ago
  I don't live in SV, but the impression I get is that nobody cares what you did 25 years ago.
- TylerE 7y ago
  Ubiquity doesn't equate to profitability. In fact, most of the big internet Startups (Twitter comes instantly to mind) lose and money and likely always will.
- Thorentis 7y ago
  Read more about his background and you'll see why. Cancel culture is definitely real. (There was a post here from WSJ the other day about it - wasn't great since it was more of a whinge, but there are some legitimate examples of "cancel culture" happening, and they are increasing in the tech industry). tl;dr he was fired for having conservative beliefs, and nobody in the valley would touch him. So he went a founded Brave instead.
  - eschaton 7y ago
    Don’t sanitize it, he was fired for being anti-gay. That should make it a little clearer why funders won’t touch him (and many won’t touch his new work).
    - A4ET8a8uTh0 7y ago
      I did not know that. It is odd though. I used to remember no one cared what about your Views as long as you were good at what you did. CS was as close to meritocracy as it could have been. It is a shame.
bearcobra 7y ago
This chart feels a bit disingenuous given that Mozilla's form990s show Eich's salary tracking along basically the same line until his departure in 2014.
- hoistbypetard 7y ago
  Yep.
- Blake_Emigro 7y ago
  It also doesn't take into consideration revenue growth, which according to the corporation's Wiki page grew much faster and higher in multiples than her salary. As well, according to the same Wiki, "There will be no shareholders, no stock options will be issued and no dividends will be paid." It would be a bummer to run a company of that size, be dedicated to it for so long, and not have any stake in it. Imagine her opportunity cost... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Corporation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Corporation
  - t-writescode 7y ago
    Why? Becoming a publicly traded company comes with assumed responsibilities to make a profit; and, at least in the United States, an assumption that you should reduce your morals for the express purpose of turning a profit, lest your board of directors kick you out for someone that will. There are greater goals, especially for a company like Mozilla, than making lots of money.
  - BrendanEich 7y ago
    Wikipedia is unreliable. Perhaps you missed it, but Verizon bought Yahoo!, realized how Marissa's five year default search deal with Firefox was bleeding money as most users reset their default to Google, and Mozilla and Verizon declared the other party in breach in rapid succession. This will go to court, and my money is on Verizon. There will be no balloon payment of the last two years. The jump in comp in 2017, as far as I can tell, was predicated on the Verizon payments being fulfilled. I hear it was also a quid pro quo for Foundation board members who demanded (order of magnitude smaller) salaries for their work as board members. Perhaps they do a lot, but in past, board members (including me) worked for no added comp. Mitchell may be worth it, but I'd want more of a turnaround in market share, new revenue sources, or both. Maybe that is just me.
pastor_elm 7y ago
Most stats I see put Firefox market share at around 5%. Am I reading the chart wrong?
- leeoniya 7y ago
  taking into account mobile browser traffic (50% of all traffic)...in the US it's about half that based on our visitors. (home remodeling industry / DIY, e-commerce).
zhdyudshdh 7y ago
That's not helpful at all it's just a backhanded advertisement for Brave.

by dman 7y ago

dralley 7y ago

I don't much care for Eich but that graph (as in, what it represents) is just shameful.

aidenn0 7y ago
The salary of top executives has gone way up in the past 20 years or so across industries, and largely without relation to company performance.
- BrendanEich 7y ago
  Nice deflection. I'm a founder of mozilla.org, Mitchell joined 8 months after, we worked closely for 15+ years. She set the salaries with board approval, always made somewhat more than I did, I never complained. Neither of us was making more than high six figures, until after I left. Something changed, and it is not generic to "industries". No excuses!
  - aidenn0 7y ago
    I didn't intend for it to come off as a deflection, though I see that it would be easy to read it that way. I agree that something changed at Mozilla, but I've seen it get justified at other previously reasonable organizations with excuses like "everyone else is doing it," or "This is still below-market rate for C-level talent." The fact that it's happening everywhere doesn't make it less nauseating. [edit] Mitchell could drop her salary to a "mere" 6 figures and lay off 7 fewer people, but you hardly ever see executives do things like that.
BrendanEich 7y ago
Remember, I'm the bad guy. Ignore this looting operation amid market share tanking, also do please ignore past board members tied to Epstein. It's all about me. :-/
- IGotThroughIt 7y ago
  Ha ha. I love Brendan. Saying it like it is. No-frills.

dpflan 7y ago

Wow. This makes me wince. My mind is making an emotional connection here to the .org fiasco and recent posts about "the internet of yore". Something(s) odd, unethical seems to be brewing/happening.

malachismith 7y ago

To be clear... this charts the comp of ONE person at Mozilla (the Board Chair - and now interim CEO).

iamaelephant 7y ago
What's your point? That was already immediately clear from the comment, the tweet and the chart. So what's your angle?
- nothrabannosir 7y ago
  It really wasn’t clear to me at all until I read this comment. I interpreted the tweet (and GP) to mean “this chart tracks CEO pay at Mozilla, regardless of who the CEO is.” Seeing this comment completely changed the perspective for me, so it was helpful. There’s no need for aspersions.
bscphil 7y ago
I think your point is the most important one. This is not "Compensation of Highest paid executive at Mozilla vs Firefox market share" as Eich says. This appears to be a misleading graph of how much one guy has been paid. His salary went way up in 2016, unsurprisingly (shortly after Eich was fired), and Firefox has continued its downward slide from when Eich was there.
- BrendanEich 7y ago
  Read more carefully: 1. The increase was in 2017, reported per IRS regs in Mozilla Foundation's Form 990 filing (which must list all comp to board members even if they work for the for-profit Mozilla Corporation subsidiary). 2. The "one guy" is Mitchell Baker, and she is chair of both foundation and corporation boards. But nice try attempting to pin blame on market share slide these last almost six years on me.
  - bscphil 7y ago
    In your Twitter thread you claimed it was a "chart for top job" at Mozilla. Will you now say that was false, that Baker was not the highest paid employee for the duration of that chart?

throwaway123x2 7y ago

It's crazy how much FF's marketshare has dropped. It's such a great browser.

zys5945 7y ago
It was
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- mjhagen 7y ago
  When have you last used it?
lizzard 7y ago
It is definitely a great browser. I think the market share dropping has a lot to do with browser lockin on specific hardware, and site-specific apps being used more and more. We are losing more and more of the open, public infrastructure of the open web.
pier25 7y ago
Hmm I don't know. I switched to FF 4 months ago and while the engine and dev tools are great, it's simply not as polished as the competition. For example just look at the alert popups[0], or the non native contextual menus, or the video pop icon. The UI is full of little quirks like that. The tab bar is by far the ugliest one of all current browsers, at least on macOS. It also misses important features such as multilingual spell checking. For people writing in multiple languages it's a real PITA. I know this functionality can be added with an extension but it slows down FF too much IMO. [0] https://imgur.com/lODjWSm https://imgur.com/lODjWSm
- madeofpalk 7y ago
  I think that alert's design is actually a _feature_. Safari made a similar change a while back not make the alerts look like system UI, to prevent phishing and similar attacks.

paul7986 7y ago

Seems odd in his tweet he noted he was unable to get funding in the valley for Brave. The guy created JavaScript and was a creator of Firefox. Don't get it ..as JS alone has contributed like how much to world economies, as well to almost every HN reader's wallet/bank.

aidenn0 7y ago
I don't live in SV, but the impression I get is that nobody cares what you did 25 years ago.
TylerE 7y ago
Ubiquity doesn't equate to profitability. In fact, most of the big internet Startups (Twitter comes instantly to mind) lose and money and likely always will.
Thorentis 7y ago
Read more about his background and you'll see why. Cancel culture is definitely real. (There was a post here from WSJ the other day about it - wasn't great since it was more of a whinge, but there are some legitimate examples of "cancel culture" happening, and they are increasing in the tech industry). tl;dr he was fired for having conservative beliefs, and nobody in the valley would touch him. So he went a founded Brave instead.
- eschaton 7y ago
  Don’t sanitize it, he was fired for being anti-gay. That should make it a little clearer why funders won’t touch him (and many won’t touch his new work).
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 7y ago
    I did not know that. It is odd though. I used to remember no one cared what about your Views as long as you were good at what you did. CS was as close to meritocracy as it could have been. It is a shame.

bearcobra 7y ago

This chart feels a bit disingenuous given that Mozilla's form990s show Eich's salary tracking along basically the same line until his departure in 2014.

hoistbypetard 7y ago
Yep.
Blake_Emigro 7y ago
It also doesn't take into consideration revenue growth, which according to the corporation's Wiki page grew much faster and higher in multiples than her salary. As well, according to the same Wiki, "There will be no shareholders, no stock options will be issued and no dividends will be paid." It would be a bummer to run a company of that size, be dedicated to it for so long, and not have any stake in it. Imagine her opportunity cost... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Corporation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Corporation
- t-writescode 7y ago
  Why? Becoming a publicly traded company comes with assumed responsibilities to make a profit; and, at least in the United States, an assumption that you should reduce your morals for the express purpose of turning a profit, lest your board of directors kick you out for someone that will. There are greater goals, especially for a company like Mozilla, than making lots of money.
- BrendanEich 7y ago
  Wikipedia is unreliable. Perhaps you missed it, but Verizon bought Yahoo!, realized how Marissa's five year default search deal with Firefox was bleeding money as most users reset their default to Google, and Mozilla and Verizon declared the other party in breach in rapid succession. This will go to court, and my money is on Verizon. There will be no balloon payment of the last two years. The jump in comp in 2017, as far as I can tell, was predicated on the Verizon payments being fulfilled. I hear it was also a quid pro quo for Foundation board members who demanded (order of magnitude smaller) salaries for their work as board members. Perhaps they do a lot, but in past, board members (including me) worked for no added comp. Mitchell may be worth it, but I'd want more of a turnaround in market share, new revenue sources, or both. Maybe that is just me.

pastor_elm 7y ago

Most stats I see put Firefox market share at around 5%. Am I reading the chart wrong?

leeoniya 7y ago
taking into account mobile browser traffic (50% of all traffic)...in the US it's about half that based on our visitors. (home remodeling industry / DIY, e-commerce).

zhdyudshdh 7y ago

That's not helpful at all it's just a backhanded advertisement for Brave.