5 ms·

The Lost Caverns of Tsojconth – Gary Gygax’s first published D&D module

90 points by nevster 7y ago

ArtRichards 7y ago
This is super cool, I love seeing the history of modules. I recently published my first module on https://Paper-Minis.com https://Paper-Minis.com . Its specifically for First Time DM's (or d&d players who want to run a one-shot for the group) It needs zero prep and includes minis, maps, puzzles. My experienced DM friends like not needing to go through hours to run a oneshot, and its great way to bring new groups into the fold. I wondered how many people want to become a DM or run a one-shot but can't break in, and thats why I made this :)
- ArtRichards 7y ago
  Also im looking for artists and content creators so contact me on the site if you're into writing or illustrating fantasy!
- monk_e_boy 7y ago
  You should throw it up on https://www.drivethrurpg.com/ https://www.drivethrurpg.com/ and https://www.dmsguild.com/ https://www.dmsguild.com/ that's where I tend to look for modules.
  - ArtRichards 7y ago
    Thanks! Honestly im looking to find a different niche than the standard module by including literally everything. I hope to mke it as fun for the DM to experience on the fly as the players. Does that make sense? Basically for people who dont have alot of XP or Time to be able to run a game for their friends.
  - ArtRichards 7y ago
    I usually release part of the modules for free to download as well, check this link: https://paper-minis.com/en/download-minis-puzzle-handouts-battle-maps-dnd/ https://paper-minis.com/en/download-minis-puzzle-handouts-ba...
SideburnsOfDoom 7y ago
Lost and yet heavily populated
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
glangdale 7y ago
This later, with a good deal of expanding, becomes "S4: The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth". Despite considerably higher production values, the nonsensical core remains - get teleported away from the central room N times for no particularly good reason, then go kill the sexy vampire lady in the middle of the place and get a humunguous pile of game-unbalancing loot. That's our Gary! Sexy vampire lady in the middle has some connection to the whole tangled pile of Greyhawk intrigue, if I remember correctly, but I don't think the module bothers to disclose any of this. I always enjoyed the lectures in 1st Edition Dungeon Masters' Guide about balance and stinginess, then you play a Gary Gygax module and your players are staggering out under the weight of all the nifty new artifacts and mountains of treasure.
- bargle0 7y ago
  IIRC, sexy vampire lady is Iggwilv.
  - glangdale 7y ago
    Embarassingly, I remember enough to know this is not true - it's her daughter, who labors under the even less convincing name of Drelzna.
- ourmandave 7y ago
  ...your players are staggering out under the weight of all the nifty new artifacts and mountains of treasure. That's when you pull out the 'ol Gygax Tomb of Horrors and do a TPK reset.
  - RodgerTheGreat 7y ago
    And don't forget: D&D 1st edition is in general rather brutal and punishing. Fail a saving throw? Dead. Fall to zero HP? Dead. Gold is XP (and vice versa). Your level 1 magic user can be handily murdered in one swipe by an average housecat.
    - tunesmith 7y ago
dnd-fan 7y ago
I think it is important to credit Rob Kuntz who did the original adventure of the Lost Caverns. You can find his original hand drawn map on Grodog's informative site. https://grodog.blogspot.com/2018/10/module-challenge-day-11-s4-lost-caverns-of-tsojcanth.html https://grodog.blogspot.com/2018/10/module-challenge-day-11-...
thordenmark 7y ago
Seeing some old-school D&D love here on HN first thing in the morning is a pretty great start to the day. Gygax inspired so much of my own imagination, I even publish OSR homages on https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/6385/Night-Owl-Workshop https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/6385/Night-Owl-Works...
grawprog 7y ago
I've got a copy of the re-release s4 module of this still in the box of D&D stuff I inherited (kinda just took with me.....) from my dad. 1st edition ad&d with the stacks of hand written custom tables and rules they created over the years is still my favourite way to play, when I can find people who'll play it with me. I remember as a kid just sitting there going through his d&d collection. He's got so many random things scattered in there. I used to love just reading the dungeon modules and the books looking at the maps and artwork and reading through the books. I'm kind of disappointed with the way the game went after wizards of the coast bought up d&d. I never really liked the 3rd edition rules and the books, though beautiful and colourful, weren't as appealing to me. There was something about those dark gritty black and white line drawings in those older books that still looks better to me. As far as I can tell now, it's not even really the same game any more. It looks more like a pen and paper version of an mmorpg than d&d these days from what I can tell by the bit i've looked at the latest rules. It also seems to focus on being a 'hero simulator' rather than being a sword and sorcery adventure simulator than it was before. I've always prefered low fantasy sword and sorcery stories to the long sprawling wheel of time style epic sagas. Stuff like Conan and Michael Moorcock's books. That's what the game used to be more like.
- guyzero 7y ago
  That was more 4th edition. 5th ed is less MMO-centric but it definitely has elements from newer RPGs like inspiration and mechanics like advantage to minimize the need to track lots of small +1's. There are variants in the core rulebook that make 5th ed much more like 1st ed in terms of lethality.
  - crooked-v 7y ago
    I'd argue that 4e was closer to 'sword and sorcery' than either 3e or 5e, given how it took away campaign-altering 9th-level spell access, flight abilities as a default assumption of combat at high level, easy access to whole piles of miscellaneous magic abilities, etc, from PCs.
- lordleft 7y ago
  I would like to point out that there is a movement within tabletop games to create new games that are either refined clones of old-school D&D (particular B/X Moldvay-Cook D&D) or capture the spirit of those older games. It's called OSR and stands for Old School Revival/Renaissance. Titles include: Old School Essentials, Dungeon Crawl Classics, Labyrinth Lord, OSRIC, and many others.
guyzero 7y ago
I was thinking about this module just last week and had ascribed its terribleness to just being an old dungeon crawl but didn't know it had previously been a tournament module. That makes a lot of sense. The S4 published version has a ton of weird open-ended bits throughout which must have been added after for general publication.
coldpie 7y ago
Wouldn't it be cool if the author could post scans of the material alongside their analysis so you could follow along? Without 1978's copyright extension, they could have! These documents would have become part of the public domain in 2006 (or 2034 if the authors chose to renew in 2006; seems unlikely). Our current state of copyright-length-insanity is actually very new. It didn't have to be this way. https://web.law.duke.edu/cspd/publicdomainday/2020/shrinking/ https://web.law.duke.edu/cspd/publicdomainday/2020/shrinking...

90 points by nevster 7y ago

This is super cool, I love seeing the history of modules. I recently published my first module on https://Paper-Minis.com https://Paper-Minis.com . Its specifically for First Time DM's (or d&d players who want to run a one-shot for the group) It needs zero prep and includes minis, maps, puzzles. My experienced DM friends like not needing to go through hours to run a oneshot, and its great way to bring new groups into the fold. I wondered how many people want to become a DM or run a one-shot but can't break in, and thats why I made this :)

ArtRichards 7y ago
Also im looking for artists and content creators so contact me on the site if you're into writing or illustrating fantasy!
monk_e_boy 7y ago
You should throw it up on https://www.drivethrurpg.com/ https://www.drivethrurpg.com/ and https://www.dmsguild.com/ https://www.dmsguild.com/ that's where I tend to look for modules.
- ArtRichards 7y ago
  Thanks! Honestly im looking to find a different niche than the standard module by including literally everything. I hope to mke it as fun for the DM to experience on the fly as the players. Does that make sense? Basically for people who dont have alot of XP or Time to be able to run a game for their friends.
- ArtRichards 7y ago
  I usually release part of the modules for free to download as well, check this link: https://paper-minis.com/en/download-minis-puzzle-handouts-battle-maps-dnd/ https://paper-minis.com/en/download-minis-puzzle-handouts-ba...

SideburnsOfDoom 7y ago

Lost and yet heavily populated

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

glangdale 7y ago

This later, with a good deal of expanding, becomes "S4: The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth". Despite considerably higher production values, the nonsensical core remains - get teleported away from the central room N times for no particularly good reason, then go kill the sexy vampire lady in the middle of the place and get a humunguous pile of game-unbalancing loot. That's our Gary! Sexy vampire lady in the middle has some connection to the whole tangled pile of Greyhawk intrigue, if I remember correctly, but I don't think the module bothers to disclose any of this. I always enjoyed the lectures in 1st Edition Dungeon Masters' Guide about balance and stinginess, then you play a Gary Gygax module and your players are staggering out under the weight of all the nifty new artifacts and mountains of treasure.

bargle0 7y ago
IIRC, sexy vampire lady is Iggwilv.
- glangdale 7y ago
  Embarassingly, I remember enough to know this is not true - it's her daughter, who labors under the even less convincing name of Drelzna.
ourmandave 7y ago
...your players are staggering out under the weight of all the nifty new artifacts and mountains of treasure. That's when you pull out the 'ol Gygax Tomb of Horrors and do a TPK reset.
- RodgerTheGreat 7y ago
  And don't forget: D&D 1st edition is in general rather brutal and punishing. Fail a saving throw? Dead. Fall to zero HP? Dead. Gold is XP (and vice versa). Your level 1 magic user can be handily murdered in one swipe by an average housecat.
  - tunesmith 7y ago

dnd-fan 7y ago

I think it is important to credit Rob Kuntz who did the original adventure of the Lost Caverns. You can find his original hand drawn map on Grodog's informative site. https://grodog.blogspot.com/2018/10/module-challenge-day-11-s4-lost-caverns-of-tsojcanth.html https://grodog.blogspot.com/2018/10/module-challenge-day-11-...

thordenmark 7y ago

Seeing some old-school D&D love here on HN first thing in the morning is a pretty great start to the day. Gygax inspired so much of my own imagination, I even publish OSR homages on https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/6385/Night-Owl-Workshop https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/6385/Night-Owl-Works...

grawprog 7y ago

I've got a copy of the re-release s4 module of this still in the box of D&D stuff I inherited (kinda just took with me.....) from my dad. 1st edition ad&d with the stacks of hand written custom tables and rules they created over the years is still my favourite way to play, when I can find people who'll play it with me. I remember as a kid just sitting there going through his d&d collection. He's got so many random things scattered in there. I used to love just reading the dungeon modules and the books looking at the maps and artwork and reading through the books. I'm kind of disappointed with the way the game went after wizards of the coast bought up d&d. I never really liked the 3rd edition rules and the books, though beautiful and colourful, weren't as appealing to me. There was something about those dark gritty black and white line drawings in those older books that still looks better to me. As far as I can tell now, it's not even really the same game any more. It looks more like a pen and paper version of an mmorpg than d&d these days from what I can tell by the bit i've looked at the latest rules. It also seems to focus on being a 'hero simulator' rather than being a sword and sorcery adventure simulator than it was before. I've always prefered low fantasy sword and sorcery stories to the long sprawling wheel of time style epic sagas. Stuff like Conan and Michael Moorcock's books. That's what the game used to be more like.

guyzero 7y ago
That was more 4th edition. 5th ed is less MMO-centric but it definitely has elements from newer RPGs like inspiration and mechanics like advantage to minimize the need to track lots of small +1's. There are variants in the core rulebook that make 5th ed much more like 1st ed in terms of lethality.
- crooked-v 7y ago
  I'd argue that 4e was closer to 'sword and sorcery' than either 3e or 5e, given how it took away campaign-altering 9th-level spell access, flight abilities as a default assumption of combat at high level, easy access to whole piles of miscellaneous magic abilities, etc, from PCs.
lordleft 7y ago
I would like to point out that there is a movement within tabletop games to create new games that are either refined clones of old-school D&D (particular B/X Moldvay-Cook D&D) or capture the spirit of those older games. It's called OSR and stands for Old School Revival/Renaissance. Titles include: Old School Essentials, Dungeon Crawl Classics, Labyrinth Lord, OSRIC, and many others.

guyzero 7y ago

I was thinking about this module just last week and had ascribed its terribleness to just being an old dungeon crawl but didn't know it had previously been a tournament module. That makes a lot of sense. The S4 published version has a ton of weird open-ended bits throughout which must have been added after for general publication.

coldpie 7y ago

Wouldn't it be cool if the author could post scans of the material alongside their analysis so you could follow along? Without 1978's copyright extension, they could have! These documents would have become part of the public domain in 2006 (or 2034 if the authors chose to renew in 2006; seems unlikely). Our current state of copyright-length-insanity is actually very new. It didn't have to be this way. https://web.law.duke.edu/cspd/publicdomainday/2020/shrinking/ https://web.law.duke.edu/cspd/publicdomainday/2020/shrinking...