5 ms·

Ancient Egypt may have given cats the personality to conquer the world (2017)

41 points by benbreen 7y ago

gwern 7y ago
Paper: https://www.gwern.net/docs/catnip/2017-ottoni.pdf https://www.gwern.net/docs/catnip/2017-ottoni.pdf (I host it for a book review I wrote on cat domestication: https://www.gwern.net/Cat-Sense https://www.gwern.net/Cat-Sense .)
RcouF1uZ4gsC 7y ago
> Either way, type A and type C cats eventually intermingled in Europe and beyond. Today’s cats are likely a blend of both Turkish and Egyptian cats. It would be really interesting to compare type A and type C with DNA from modern cat breeds to find if/how much each of these types of cats contributes.
seibelj 7y ago
What I love about cats vs. dogs is that cats only do what they want. If they sit on you, cuddle, want pets, hang out, it’s because they like you. I’m not saying dogs don’t like you. It’s just that they are “man’s best friend”. I had a dog growing up and it was never as interesting to me as the cats. I had 3 cats growing up (if one passed or disappeared, we would replace), and as soon as I had my own place post-college, I got three more cats! They are truly one of the inexpensive pleasures of life to me. I highly recommend everyone get a cat! The Egyptians knew it 12,000 years ago!
- bsenftner 7y ago
  I have a friend that likes to tell people "Hitler's cat hated him, but his German Shepard loved him." (Hitler had no cat.)
- iknowstuff 7y ago
  As opposed to dogs, which sit on you because they don't want to...?
- unishark 7y ago
  A dog is a devoted family member. A cat is a psychopath roommate who doesn't like to admit they feel a bit attached to you. Naturally it's more interesting.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 7y ago
    What exactly do you see as psychopathic in cats? Maybe your interactions have been with the (wrong for you) ones? Or treated them wrong? In my personal experience only the ones which 'fitted' to me, bonded with me, the ones which didn't, didn't. This is 'visible' at first sight for me, at least so far. This applies to free roaming cats/strays as well. Either they like you, or not. Do not force one which doesn't fit you to be around you. As simple as that.
    - unishark 7y ago
      Ah the internet. Where people pick arguments over light-hearted comments about the psychopathy of cats. Personally I'd go with the lack of empathy and constant daily need to kill. But rather than just arguing back and forth, here you can read about how this isn't a strange new perspective from some random dog-person or something: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/02/cat-psychopaths/583192/ https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/02/cat-psyc...
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - LargoLasskhyfv 7y ago
        Sigh. I already know that article. And can't confirm. At least not from personal experience. In my opinion that is too simplistic. They are different in personality just like people are. Maybe it is because of genetics, or priming early during upbringing, experiences, surroundings, possibly a combination of all, just like in people too. There are cats which have absolutely no interest in killing, because they know (i think) they don't need to. I personally had a cat which would let a butterfly sit on her nose, with a sense of wonder and joy in her face. Yes, they DO have that(or at least some of them)! No, she didn't play with it, just looked at it after it flew away. I've been surprised by her, standing outside on the balcony, leaning on the railing, by suddenly being headbumped against the cheek, unaware of her sneaking up behind of me. There are many, many stories and videos of them caring for ducklings, young squirrels, anything which is considered a nice meal for them, but they don't hurt them. No. They care. The only thing to which i can concur they all have in common is the urge to use their claws on something to short them. Which in the simplest case can be a large doormat of a certain sort on the ground, or even better nailed to the wall. That is often preferred even to a cat tree. For scratiching at least, they like to climb, just not where you'd think they should. Anyways, i didn't mean to offend, or have been myself, just that i don't understand this meme because it goes against my experience. Maybe i 'sense' 'catspeak' in some ways others don't? For me they (the ones which i interact with) are the sweetest things, ever.
- wavefunction 7y ago
  There are "aloof" breeds of dogs so I hate to burst your bubble about cats. My akita-pit comes over to me when she wants to be petted and leaves when she wants to leave. She might curl up next to me for a while. Then she moves over to the other couch: the one I'm not sitting on. My bulldog-pit is a cuddler and is almost always near me if she's not outside laying in the sun.
- dbcurtis 7y ago
  Cats understand work/life balance, and dogs don’t. For a dog, the highlight of the day is running with the pack, regardless of how much effort that is. Thus, the success of the dogsled. The cat’s highlights are the daily private hunt, followed by a nap. There is no such thing as a catsled. Channel that thought during your next daily standup.
  - jaclaz 7y ago
    >The cat’s highlights are the daily private hunt, followed by a nap. At least here cats have that nice daily private hunt alright, but it is usually also preceded by a nap, and of course each nap is preceded by some sleeping and followed by some more sleeping. Except of course about 5:30-6:00 in the morning, which is usually either play time or feed time.
  - o_nate 7y ago
    It's interesting that dogs are seen as the more practical, helpful pet. And certainly for much of history, that was true. However, in a modern, urban environment, I'd say the situation has reversed. Apart from the intangible, emotional companion benefits, I'd argue there isn't much practical use of a dog for a city-dweller. On the other hand, a cat at least has the benefit of keeping unwanted rodents out of your apartment.
- hyperpallium 7y ago
  Dogs were bred to love us, like DA's vegan cow: > Which is why it was eventually decided to cut through the whole tangled problem and breed an animal that actually wanted to be eaten and was capable of saying so clearly and distinctly. And here I am. It doesn't make dogs' love and faithfulness any less true... but they are loving slaves. It makes them better than us, not worse, like angels unable to choose evil.
  - chinesempire 7y ago
    > like angels unable to choose evil. except when they do it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_t...
- goatinaboat 7y ago
  Humans domesticated dogs but cats domesticated humans
- bitwize 7y ago
  That depends on the dog. My parents got an Australian shepherd. If you know anything about the breed, you know that they are highly intelligent, but also stubborn and willful animals who need a lot of physical and mental stimulation. You may also know that Aussies tend to bond to one person well and be wary of even that person's family members. That said, my parents' Aussie absolutely adores me, even though I don't visit that often. When I do visit, he jumps on me and wags his tail-stump so hard his entire rear moves. He even gets excited when he hears my name mentioned. This wasn't automatic; I had to earn his adoration by being his pal. And I appreciate it even more deeply for havung earned it.
scirocco 7y ago
Dogs have owners, cats have staff :)

41 points by benbreen 7y ago

Paper: https://www.gwern.net/docs/catnip/2017-ottoni.pdf https://www.gwern.net/docs/catnip/2017-ottoni.pdf (I host it for a book review I wrote on cat domestication: https://www.gwern.net/Cat-Sense https://www.gwern.net/Cat-Sense .)

RcouF1uZ4gsC 7y ago

> Either way, type A and type C cats eventually intermingled in Europe and beyond. Today’s cats are likely a blend of both Turkish and Egyptian cats. It would be really interesting to compare type A and type C with DNA from modern cat breeds to find if/how much each of these types of cats contributes.

seibelj 7y ago

What I love about cats vs. dogs is that cats only do what they want. If they sit on you, cuddle, want pets, hang out, it’s because they like you. I’m not saying dogs don’t like you. It’s just that they are “man’s best friend”. I had a dog growing up and it was never as interesting to me as the cats. I had 3 cats growing up (if one passed or disappeared, we would replace), and as soon as I had my own place post-college, I got three more cats! They are truly one of the inexpensive pleasures of life to me. I highly recommend everyone get a cat! The Egyptians knew it 12,000 years ago!

bsenftner 7y ago
I have a friend that likes to tell people "Hitler's cat hated him, but his German Shepard loved him." (Hitler had no cat.)
iknowstuff 7y ago
As opposed to dogs, which sit on you because they don't want to...?
unishark 7y ago
A dog is a devoted family member. A cat is a psychopath roommate who doesn't like to admit they feel a bit attached to you. Naturally it's more interesting.
- LargoLasskhyfv 7y ago
  What exactly do you see as psychopathic in cats? Maybe your interactions have been with the (wrong for you) ones? Or treated them wrong? In my personal experience only the ones which 'fitted' to me, bonded with me, the ones which didn't, didn't. This is 'visible' at first sight for me, at least so far. This applies to free roaming cats/strays as well. Either they like you, or not. Do not force one which doesn't fit you to be around you. As simple as that.
  - unishark 7y ago
    Ah the internet. Where people pick arguments over light-hearted comments about the psychopathy of cats. Personally I'd go with the lack of empathy and constant daily need to kill. But rather than just arguing back and forth, here you can read about how this isn't a strange new perspective from some random dog-person or something: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/02/cat-psychopaths/583192/ https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/02/cat-psyc...
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - LargoLasskhyfv 7y ago
      Sigh. I already know that article. And can't confirm. At least not from personal experience. In my opinion that is too simplistic. They are different in personality just like people are. Maybe it is because of genetics, or priming early during upbringing, experiences, surroundings, possibly a combination of all, just like in people too. There are cats which have absolutely no interest in killing, because they know (i think) they don't need to. I personally had a cat which would let a butterfly sit on her nose, with a sense of wonder and joy in her face. Yes, they DO have that(or at least some of them)! No, she didn't play with it, just looked at it after it flew away. I've been surprised by her, standing outside on the balcony, leaning on the railing, by suddenly being headbumped against the cheek, unaware of her sneaking up behind of me. There are many, many stories and videos of them caring for ducklings, young squirrels, anything which is considered a nice meal for them, but they don't hurt them. No. They care. The only thing to which i can concur they all have in common is the urge to use their claws on something to short them. Which in the simplest case can be a large doormat of a certain sort on the ground, or even better nailed to the wall. That is often preferred even to a cat tree. For scratiching at least, they like to climb, just not where you'd think they should. Anyways, i didn't mean to offend, or have been myself, just that i don't understand this meme because it goes against my experience. Maybe i 'sense' 'catspeak' in some ways others don't? For me they (the ones which i interact with) are the sweetest things, ever.
wavefunction 7y ago
There are "aloof" breeds of dogs so I hate to burst your bubble about cats. My akita-pit comes over to me when she wants to be petted and leaves when she wants to leave. She might curl up next to me for a while. Then she moves over to the other couch: the one I'm not sitting on. My bulldog-pit is a cuddler and is almost always near me if she's not outside laying in the sun.
dbcurtis 7y ago
Cats understand work/life balance, and dogs don’t. For a dog, the highlight of the day is running with the pack, regardless of how much effort that is. Thus, the success of the dogsled. The cat’s highlights are the daily private hunt, followed by a nap. There is no such thing as a catsled. Channel that thought during your next daily standup.
- jaclaz 7y ago
  >The cat’s highlights are the daily private hunt, followed by a nap. At least here cats have that nice daily private hunt alright, but it is usually also preceded by a nap, and of course each nap is preceded by some sleeping and followed by some more sleeping. Except of course about 5:30-6:00 in the morning, which is usually either play time or feed time.
- o_nate 7y ago
  It's interesting that dogs are seen as the more practical, helpful pet. And certainly for much of history, that was true. However, in a modern, urban environment, I'd say the situation has reversed. Apart from the intangible, emotional companion benefits, I'd argue there isn't much practical use of a dog for a city-dweller. On the other hand, a cat at least has the benefit of keeping unwanted rodents out of your apartment.
hyperpallium 7y ago
Dogs were bred to love us, like DA's vegan cow: > Which is why it was eventually decided to cut through the whole tangled problem and breed an animal that actually wanted to be eaten and was capable of saying so clearly and distinctly. And here I am. It doesn't make dogs' love and faithfulness any less true... but they are loving slaves. It makes them better than us, not worse, like angels unable to choose evil.
- chinesempire 7y ago
  > like angels unable to choose evil. except when they do it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_t...
goatinaboat 7y ago
Humans domesticated dogs but cats domesticated humans
bitwize 7y ago
That depends on the dog. My parents got an Australian shepherd. If you know anything about the breed, you know that they are highly intelligent, but also stubborn and willful animals who need a lot of physical and mental stimulation. You may also know that Aussies tend to bond to one person well and be wary of even that person's family members. That said, my parents' Aussie absolutely adores me, even though I don't visit that often. When I do visit, he jumps on me and wags his tail-stump so hard his entire rear moves. He even gets excited when he hears my name mentioned. This wasn't automatic; I had to earn his adoration by being his pal. And I appreciate it even more deeply for havung earned it.

scirocco 7y ago

Dogs have owners, cats have staff :)