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I like Austin Kleon's insights here [1]: "A day job gives you money, a connection to the world, and a routine. Freedom from financial stress also means freedom

I like Austin Kleon's insights here [1]: "A day job gives you money, a connection to the world, and a routine. Freedom from financial stress also means freedom in your art. As photographer Bill Cunningham says, 'If you don’t take money, they cant tell you what to do.' Because the real truth is, once you start making money doing what you love, it BECOMES A JOB. And with it comes all the hassle of a job." It's why I've personally decided to work for someone else full time and then use any time I can get outside my day job to do the things I really enjoy (which are very profitable). The full time job enables me to be more "creatively reckless" in my side projects, which in turn allows me to learn a lot and stretch creative muscles I might not otherwise get "working for the man." 1. From: https://tumblr.austinkleon.com/post/69005574484 https://tumblr.austinkleon.com/post/69005574484

winrid 7y ago
Yes, however if you can figure out a project that pays your salary and is low maintenance (very hard) you can have even more time for your art :)
chrisco255 7y ago
"It becomes a job" doesn't really satisfy me as a description for what occurs when you strike out on your own. Running your own business is much more intense and engaging than having a job. Now, it's important that you see it as multiple jobs, and not just one job. Whatever your day job is you're going to have to wear multiple hats in a startup and it's going to challenge you in different ways than a corporate job will. In a corporate engineering job, it's likely that you're working on a small subset of features of a broader product and of a broader organization. As a founder of a company, you'll be coding, promoting, designing, innovating, QA, customer service, sales, and more.
- aksss 7y ago
  ...bookkeeping, reviewing contracts, managing insurance and licensing requirements, networking, the list goes on. You can farm this stuff out when you get big enough, but in the beginning you need to rapidly learn a lot of business skills that you may have only passively come into contact with prior. You will be better for it, even if you decide to go back to corporate at some point - you'll be relieved you don't have to do all the bootstrapping, but you'll appreciate what really goes into a business operation in a way you never did before.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
kentrado 7y ago
I would like to try that approach but I just don't have the energy after working all day to come home and start investing time chasing wildly creative projects.
- tannerc 7y ago
  I’m writing a book on how I do this! I’ll be sharing here on HN once it’s complete. But the TL;DR for the chapter on motivation and energy comes down to: work on things that improve your own life, set clear objectives, and work in small chunks. The book itself is being written in 30 minute chunks throughout my week because that’s all the time I can spare.
  - bogdanoff_2 7y ago
    I found that back when I had lots of free time, my style when doing projects was: I start where I left off, I get engrossed and code late into the night, repeat that one or two more days, get bored and "burned out" from the project, don't touch it for a week or so (sometimes I work on some other projects), repeat. Of course, that's not really sustainable. But 30 minutes does not seem feasible for me. It's not like you're going for a 30 minute jog where you just run without thinking. Don't you need to take time to "warm up" until the project you're doing starts being fun? And how does stopping just when you start enjoying yourself not kill your motivation? And don't you think about the project throughout your day job (instead of whatever problem you're supposed to be working on)?
    - yellow_lead 7y ago
      Agreed, 30 mins is not enough time to get into "deep work" for programming. At best you could do some business-y tasks.
      - ptah 7y ago
        on the contrary it can make you more productive. for one it forces you to take a step back regularly instead of blindly going down a potentially wrong path. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomodoro_Technique https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomodoro_Technique
shoptechmedia 7y ago
I actually did this 3 years ago.. just to be at peace with working with somebody else was nightmare for me having been an entrepreneur for 20 years.. but once I accepted the idea that I can still do the things i love most while working full time for somebody was liberating. Whereas, it used to be work all the time when I was managing my own business.
zerr 7y ago
The key is to have a high-paid part-time job.
- tonyedgecombe 7y ago
  Or low outgoings.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
  And in what universe would one find such a thing?
  - zerr 7y ago
    Working remotely from a cheap place for clients from expensive places, charging expensive place market rate.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
      Contract work is not the same as part time work.
      - zerr 7y ago
        It's up to you to skip over clients who demand full-time commitment.

winrid 7y ago

Yes, however if you can figure out a project that pays your salary and is low maintenance (very hard) you can have even more time for your art :)

chrisco255 7y ago

"It becomes a job" doesn't really satisfy me as a description for what occurs when you strike out on your own. Running your own business is much more intense and engaging than having a job. Now, it's important that you see it as multiple jobs, and not just one job. Whatever your day job is you're going to have to wear multiple hats in a startup and it's going to challenge you in different ways than a corporate job will. In a corporate engineering job, it's likely that you're working on a small subset of features of a broader product and of a broader organization. As a founder of a company, you'll be coding, promoting, designing, innovating, QA, customer service, sales, and more.

aksss 7y ago
...bookkeeping, reviewing contracts, managing insurance and licensing requirements, networking, the list goes on. You can farm this stuff out when you get big enough, but in the beginning you need to rapidly learn a lot of business skills that you may have only passively come into contact with prior. You will be better for it, even if you decide to go back to corporate at some point - you'll be relieved you don't have to do all the bootstrapping, but you'll appreciate what really goes into a business operation in a way you never did before.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

kentrado 7y ago

I would like to try that approach but I just don't have the energy after working all day to come home and start investing time chasing wildly creative projects.

tannerc 7y ago
I’m writing a book on how I do this! I’ll be sharing here on HN once it’s complete. But the TL;DR for the chapter on motivation and energy comes down to: work on things that improve your own life, set clear objectives, and work in small chunks. The book itself is being written in 30 minute chunks throughout my week because that’s all the time I can spare.
- bogdanoff_2 7y ago
  I found that back when I had lots of free time, my style when doing projects was: I start where I left off, I get engrossed and code late into the night, repeat that one or two more days, get bored and "burned out" from the project, don't touch it for a week or so (sometimes I work on some other projects), repeat. Of course, that's not really sustainable. But 30 minutes does not seem feasible for me. It's not like you're going for a 30 minute jog where you just run without thinking. Don't you need to take time to "warm up" until the project you're doing starts being fun? And how does stopping just when you start enjoying yourself not kill your motivation? And don't you think about the project throughout your day job (instead of whatever problem you're supposed to be working on)?
  - yellow_lead 7y ago
    Agreed, 30 mins is not enough time to get into "deep work" for programming. At best you could do some business-y tasks.
    - ptah 7y ago
      on the contrary it can make you more productive. for one it forces you to take a step back regularly instead of blindly going down a potentially wrong path. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomodoro_Technique https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomodoro_Technique

shoptechmedia 7y ago

I actually did this 3 years ago.. just to be at peace with working with somebody else was nightmare for me having been an entrepreneur for 20 years.. but once I accepted the idea that I can still do the things i love most while working full time for somebody was liberating. Whereas, it used to be work all the time when I was managing my own business.

zerr 7y ago

The key is to have a high-paid part-time job.

tonyedgecombe 7y ago
Or low outgoings.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
And in what universe would one find such a thing?
- zerr 7y ago
  Working remotely from a cheap place for clients from expensive places, charging expensive place market rate.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
    Contract work is not the same as part time work.
    - zerr 7y ago
      It's up to you to skip over clients who demand full-time commitment.