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> While annual tuition was around $36,000, no one paid that. “We were actually discounting that about 67%. So the average student was really only paying about $

> While annual tuition was around $36,000, no one paid that. “We were actually discounting that about 67%. So the average student was really only paying about $12,000 for tuition,” said Allen. The opaque cost of college is one of the problems. If it cost $12k to go there they should advertise a $12k tuition and maybe wouldn’t be closing.

JamesBarney 7y ago
This seems very reasonable, but I've read enough to know it's more complex than you think. College admission officers are juggling a lot of complex math to figure out their student body. But the reason they don't charge 12k is for a couple of reasons. Some kids will pay the 36k(Usually screw ups with rich parents) and to attract top tier students that raise their rankings(which they need high to attract students) they need to give them large discounts and scholarships. Most people would prefer to go a 50k school with 38k in scholarships than a 12k school.
- AnimalMuppet 7y ago
  > Most people would prefer to go a 50k school with 38k in scholarships than a 12k school. Sure. The psychology is completely different. "I went to an average place at an average cost" doesn't have the sizzle of "I went to an elite place, and I got a massive discount!"
asmodlol 7y ago
Meanwhile college is 500€ a year in France...
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- nicolas_t 7y ago
  That's true but the cost per student is much higher than that. I know that for example a student at a grande école back when I was in an engineering school early 2000 cost 35k euros per year to the state. It's probably even more now...
- rayiner 7y ago
  Meanwhile the tax wedge in France is 50%, versus 30% in the United States: https://images.app.goo.gl/w7bDooKFRoRewLYn8 https://images.app.goo.gl/w7bDooKFRoRewLYn8. On a $50,000 income, it’ll take only 4 years for the tax savings to offset the benefit of “free college” (assuming average public school tuition). If you include the average cost of employer-provided health insurance in the tax wedge, you come out ahead in the US in 7 years (assuming 5% rate of return). Of course, then there is the fact that Americans earn more. To use teachers as an example of a college required job: https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/docserver/gov_glance-2017-35-en.pdf?expires=1578976467&id=id&accname=guest&checksum=10D51B9B7B45160447639128805435E2 https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/docserver/gov_glance-2017-35-e.... Average salary of $27,000 (adjusted for purchasing power) in France versus $40,000 in the US. Before employer taxes is about $36,000 in France. Before employer taxes and health insurance it’s about $49,000 in the US. Applying the tax wedge again, the US teacher is making more than $10,000 per year more to start, and will offset the difference in free college in a bit over 4 years. After 15 years experience, the US teacher will be earning $75,000 before employer side taxes and health insurance, while the French teacher will be at $51,000.
  - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
    This discounts all the other benefits the French are getting for their taxes beyond it paying for higher education and healthcare; eg much better public transit. You will still probably do better in the USA, especially at higher incomes, but the French aren’t very unhappy with their life quality.
    - rayiner 7y ago
      Public transit can be considered a liability, not a benefit: https://www.thelocal.fr/20160418/parisians-spend-23-days-a-year-on-public-transport https://www.thelocal.fr/20160418/parisians-spend-23-days-a-y... > 92 minutes. That’s the amount of time on average that people in the Paris area spend on public transport each day of their lives. > And if the figure is only applied to those who work then it rises to 113 minutes each day. > So basically that’s over an hour and half sitting, or more likely standing, on the Metro, RER trains or buses according to a new study by France’s Urban Development institute. A typical Houstonian, where the average commute is under an hour, isn’t pining for higher taxes and public transit.

JamesBarney 7y ago

This seems very reasonable, but I've read enough to know it's more complex than you think. College admission officers are juggling a lot of complex math to figure out their student body. But the reason they don't charge 12k is for a couple of reasons. Some kids will pay the 36k(Usually screw ups with rich parents) and to attract top tier students that raise their rankings(which they need high to attract students) they need to give them large discounts and scholarships. Most people would prefer to go a 50k school with 38k in scholarships than a 12k school.

AnimalMuppet 7y ago
> Most people would prefer to go a 50k school with 38k in scholarships than a 12k school. Sure. The psychology is completely different. "I went to an average place at an average cost" doesn't have the sizzle of "I went to an elite place, and I got a massive discount!"

asmodlol 7y ago

Meanwhile college is 500€ a year in France...

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
nicolas_t 7y ago
That's true but the cost per student is much higher than that. I know that for example a student at a grande école back when I was in an engineering school early 2000 cost 35k euros per year to the state. It's probably even more now...
rayiner 7y ago
Meanwhile the tax wedge in France is 50%, versus 30% in the United States: https://images.app.goo.gl/w7bDooKFRoRewLYn8 https://images.app.goo.gl/w7bDooKFRoRewLYn8. On a $50,000 income, it’ll take only 4 years for the tax savings to offset the benefit of “free college” (assuming average public school tuition). If you include the average cost of employer-provided health insurance in the tax wedge, you come out ahead in the US in 7 years (assuming 5% rate of return). Of course, then there is the fact that Americans earn more. To use teachers as an example of a college required job: https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/docserver/gov_glance-2017-35-en.pdf?expires=1578976467&id=id&accname=guest&checksum=10D51B9B7B45160447639128805435E2 https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/docserver/gov_glance-2017-35-e.... Average salary of $27,000 (adjusted for purchasing power) in France versus $40,000 in the US. Before employer taxes is about $36,000 in France. Before employer taxes and health insurance it’s about $49,000 in the US. Applying the tax wedge again, the US teacher is making more than $10,000 per year more to start, and will offset the difference in free college in a bit over 4 years. After 15 years experience, the US teacher will be earning $75,000 before employer side taxes and health insurance, while the French teacher will be at $51,000.
- seanmcdirmid 7y ago
  This discounts all the other benefits the French are getting for their taxes beyond it paying for higher education and healthcare; eg much better public transit. You will still probably do better in the USA, especially at higher incomes, but the French aren’t very unhappy with their life quality.
  - rayiner 7y ago
    Public transit can be considered a liability, not a benefit: https://www.thelocal.fr/20160418/parisians-spend-23-days-a-year-on-public-transport https://www.thelocal.fr/20160418/parisians-spend-23-days-a-y... > 92 minutes. That’s the amount of time on average that people in the Paris area spend on public transport each day of their lives. > And if the figure is only applied to those who work then it rises to 113 minutes each day. > So basically that’s over an hour and half sitting, or more likely standing, on the Metro, RER trains or buses according to a new study by France’s Urban Development institute. A typical Houstonian, where the average commute is under an hour, isn’t pining for higher taxes and public transit.