4 ms·

Ok, so there's cars speeding around your neighborhoods, and kids playing on these very same streets without somehow getting hit by all the speeding cars? Sorry

by magduf 7y ago

Ok, so there's cars speeding around your neighborhoods, and kids playing on these very same streets without somehow getting hit by all the speeding cars? Sorry, I don't buy it.

tptacek 7y ago
That is indeed what is happening. It's how I remember things growing up on the south side of Chicago, and how things were in Ann Arbor when we lived there with our young kids, as well.
- magduf 7y ago
  So you let your young (under 10yo) kids bumble around on bicycles in the streets with traffic whizzing by at 30-45mph?
  - kasey_junk 7y ago
    Why are you assuming that traffic is moving at 30-45 mph through a neighborhood. In my neighborhood the speed limit is universally 25 and the stop signs & one way streets keep traffic speeds down. My son doesn’t know how to ride a bike yet but there are certainly under 10 yo all around riding in the streets. Further my son does walk to the park down the street by himself or with friends with the usual guidance about cars (“look both ways” etc).
    - magduf 7y ago
      >Why are you assuming that traffic is moving at 30-45 mph through a neighborhood. Because that's what I see in the suburbs here in DC. >In my neighborhood the speed limit is universally 25 and the stop signs & one way streets keep traffic speeds down. Those aren't typical American suburbs if there's 1-way streets. That sounds much more urban in fact. The suburbs I typically see have wide streets, and 35mph speed limits, and people driving around quite a bit faster than that in their huge luxury SUVs. I also don't see kids in the streets at all, and for good reason: it's too dangerous. I don't feel safe at all on my bike, even though I ride very fast and as far right as I can (I only ride in the subdivision near me so I can get to the multi-use trail on the other side).
  - tptacek 7y ago
    My kids are in college right now, but everyone else in Oak Park seems to, as did everyone in Ann Arbor, as did --- to an even greater extent --- every family --- every family; it would have been extremely weird not to be allowed to ride your bike in the streets in the 1980s --- in the south side of Chicago when I was growing up, at a time when traffic fatalities were more than twice as high as they are now. I don't think your argument is rooted in facts. It is in fact illegal in Chicago to ride your bike on the sidewalk. Your contention would have to be that children have simply ceased using bicycles, which is obviously not true.
    - pvg 7y ago
      It is in fact illegal in Chicago to ride your bike on the sidewalk. How has this thread lasted so long without a single reference to the seminal work of Campbell, Algar et al[1] on the topic. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rroZv3rFEoU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rroZv3rFEoU
      - tptacek 7y ago
        I thought about it but I've never once seen someone in Chicagoland play hockey in the street. I just can't in good conscience cite it.

by magduf 7y ago

Ok, so there's cars speeding around your neighborhoods, and kids playing on these very same streets without somehow getting hit by all the speeding cars? Sorry, I don't buy it.

tptacek 7y ago

That is indeed what is happening. It's how I remember things growing up on the south side of Chicago, and how things were in Ann Arbor when we lived there with our young kids, as well.

magduf 7y ago
So you let your young (under 10yo) kids bumble around on bicycles in the streets with traffic whizzing by at 30-45mph?
- kasey_junk 7y ago
  Why are you assuming that traffic is moving at 30-45 mph through a neighborhood. In my neighborhood the speed limit is universally 25 and the stop signs & one way streets keep traffic speeds down. My son doesn’t know how to ride a bike yet but there are certainly under 10 yo all around riding in the streets. Further my son does walk to the park down the street by himself or with friends with the usual guidance about cars (“look both ways” etc).
  - magduf 7y ago
    >Why are you assuming that traffic is moving at 30-45 mph through a neighborhood. Because that's what I see in the suburbs here in DC. >In my neighborhood the speed limit is universally 25 and the stop signs & one way streets keep traffic speeds down. Those aren't typical American suburbs if there's 1-way streets. That sounds much more urban in fact. The suburbs I typically see have wide streets, and 35mph speed limits, and people driving around quite a bit faster than that in their huge luxury SUVs. I also don't see kids in the streets at all, and for good reason: it's too dangerous. I don't feel safe at all on my bike, even though I ride very fast and as far right as I can (I only ride in the subdivision near me so I can get to the multi-use trail on the other side).
- tptacek 7y ago
  My kids are in college right now, but everyone else in Oak Park seems to, as did everyone in Ann Arbor, as did --- to an even greater extent --- every family --- every family; it would have been extremely weird not to be allowed to ride your bike in the streets in the 1980s --- in the south side of Chicago when I was growing up, at a time when traffic fatalities were more than twice as high as they are now. I don't think your argument is rooted in facts. It is in fact illegal in Chicago to ride your bike on the sidewalk. Your contention would have to be that children have simply ceased using bicycles, which is obviously not true.
  - pvg 7y ago
    It is in fact illegal in Chicago to ride your bike on the sidewalk. How has this thread lasted so long without a single reference to the seminal work of Campbell, Algar et al[1] on the topic. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rroZv3rFEoU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rroZv3rFEoU
    - tptacek 7y ago
      I thought about it but I've never once seen someone in Chicagoland play hockey in the street. I just can't in good conscience cite it.