6 ms·

There’s two things about iOS that bothers me, privacy wise: - Apple still makes money off of ads, creating a conflict of interest. By default, users have a uni

There’s two things about iOS that bothers me, privacy wise: - Apple still makes money off of ads, creating a conflict of interest. By default, users have a unique tracking/advertising ID attached to their phone. - iOS is extremely restrictive, making certain privacy adjustments impossible.

madeofpalk 7y ago
> By default, users have a unique tracking/advertising ID attached to their phone. My understanding is that this tracking ID was a replacement for apps being able to obtain the devices serial number. The tracking ID is unique per developer (edit: not true, it is unique per device, so multiple devs can build a profile on you) and can be reset by the user at any time.
- KMnO4 7y ago
  I don’t believe the IDFA is unique per developer (assuming I’m understanding you correctly). I use analytics in my company’s app and I get my team to send me their IDFA by downloading a free app from the App Store. The IDFA in my analytics is the same IDFA in the 3rd party app.
  - VintageCool 7y ago
    There is an IDFA (ID for Advertisers) and an IDFV (ID for Vendors). The IDFV is unique per developer; the IDFA is unique per device. The device user can reset their IDFA at any time, and if the user disables ad tracking then the device returns 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000.
    - banachtarski 7y ago
      Yes but in practice, users never do, and when they do a reset, fingerprinting employed by most (all?) ad exchanges can make the association without issue.
judge2020 7y ago
AFAIK they make money off of non-tracked ads, eg. app store contextualized ads. The advertising ID only makes them money in the sense that more people might buy due to being able to reset this ID, Apple doesn't directly make money off of this (the ID is a string adtech can use to generate a profile instead of via fingerprinting, there isn't some API adtech has to use to use this unique ID).
emptybits 7y ago
Yes. But FWIW, a user can reset their "Advertising Identifier" anytime they want: Settings -> Privacy -> Advertising -> Reset Advertising Identifier... Now if iOS was more hacker friendly, I'd write an app to automate that action and have it run regularly or on a random schedule or something.
- hombre_fatal 7y ago
  Well, the checkbox right above the UI option you pointed out will zero-out your identifier.
- SXX 7y ago
  > Now if iOS was more hacker friendly, I'd write an app to automate that action and have it run regularly or on a random schedule or something. Of course you never mentioned Android in your post, but I just want to point out that Android in no way is more hacker-friendly. As soon as you obtain root access half of apps will stop to be feature-complete because Google have SafetyNet and there is no way at all to make your own legit "hacker" apps trusted to use elevated privileges. How is your phone is useful if part of games wont work, streaming wont work, banking apps dont work, etc. Of course they sell it under sauce of anti-malware and "security", but it's Android have anti-consumer DRM system that make your compromise between useful apps and whatever hacks you wish to apply. So not that much more useful compared to jailbroken iOS.
  - gear54rus 7y ago
    > there is no way at all to make your own legit "hacker" apps trusted to use elevated privileges Of course there is. To circumvent this closed apple-esque bullshit you can just install magisk.
    - SXX 7y ago
      My point is that Android as platform don't have this feature and it's vendor only care about interests of carriers, pro-DRM media companies and own ads business. Magisk is never ending cat and mouse game and at any moment Google can just add some hardware-backed privileged rootkit that not going to be easy to bypass. So it's not always usable for every app out there.
privateSFacct 7y ago
"By default, users have a unique tracking/advertising ID attached to their phone." Google has the same thing, and with apple if you care you can opt out. "When Limit Ad Tracking is enabled on iOS 10 or later, the Advertising Identifier is replaced with a non-unique value of all zeros to prevent the serving of targeted ads. It is automatically reset to a new random identifier if you disable Limit Ad Tracking." So this is a positive in apple's case over google privacy wise, not a negative against google. "- iOS is extremely restrictive, making certain privacy adjustments impossible." Generally you can't get unremovable malaware installed on an iphone you buy from apple. If this type of privacy restriction makes you choose android privacy invading phones - go for android. Many people like the locked down Apple setup.
- surround 7y ago
  > Generally you can't get unremovable malaware installed on an iphone. Apple uses FUD to justify restricting users from doing what they want with their phone. > If this type of privacy restriction makes you choose android privacy invading phones - go for android. This is not what I’m talking about. I want to be able to use tools such as NetGuard to enhance privacy, which iOS doesn’t allow.
  - judge2020 7y ago
    "FUD" isn't so uncertain when there is known widespread android malware. iOS malware only happens in extreme cases (like ransomware via a bad profile https://i.blackhat.com/briefings/asia/2018/asia-18-Zhu-and-Li-Death-Profile-wp.pdf https://i.blackhat.com/briefings/asia/2018/asia-18-Zhu-and-L... ), via something like XcodeGhost, or via safari tech support scams. Just look at how stark of contrast there is between the lists of malware for both devices - https://www.cyber.nj.gov/threat-profiles/android-malware-variants https://www.cyber.nj.gov/threat-profiles/android-malware-var... and https://www.cyber.nj.gov/threat-profiles/ios/#list-of-known-ios-malware https://www.cyber.nj.gov/threat-profiles/ios/#list-of-known-....
    - wor3q 7y ago
      Have you read what types of malware is on the list? "Download and install this app from sketchy place" kind of thing...

madeofpalk 7y ago

> By default, users have a unique tracking/advertising ID attached to their phone. My understanding is that this tracking ID was a replacement for apps being able to obtain the devices serial number. The tracking ID is unique per developer (edit: not true, it is unique per device, so multiple devs can build a profile on you) and can be reset by the user at any time.

KMnO4 7y ago
I don’t believe the IDFA is unique per developer (assuming I’m understanding you correctly). I use analytics in my company’s app and I get my team to send me their IDFA by downloading a free app from the App Store. The IDFA in my analytics is the same IDFA in the 3rd party app.
- VintageCool 7y ago
  There is an IDFA (ID for Advertisers) and an IDFV (ID for Vendors). The IDFV is unique per developer; the IDFA is unique per device. The device user can reset their IDFA at any time, and if the user disables ad tracking then the device returns 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000.
  - banachtarski 7y ago
    Yes but in practice, users never do, and when they do a reset, fingerprinting employed by most (all?) ad exchanges can make the association without issue.

judge2020 7y ago

AFAIK they make money off of non-tracked ads, eg. app store contextualized ads. The advertising ID only makes them money in the sense that more people might buy due to being able to reset this ID, Apple doesn't directly make money off of this (the ID is a string adtech can use to generate a profile instead of via fingerprinting, there isn't some API adtech has to use to use this unique ID).

emptybits 7y ago

Yes. But FWIW, a user can reset their "Advertising Identifier" anytime they want: Settings -> Privacy -> Advertising -> Reset Advertising Identifier... Now if iOS was more hacker friendly, I'd write an app to automate that action and have it run regularly or on a random schedule or something.

hombre_fatal 7y ago
Well, the checkbox right above the UI option you pointed out will zero-out your identifier.
SXX 7y ago
> Now if iOS was more hacker friendly, I'd write an app to automate that action and have it run regularly or on a random schedule or something. Of course you never mentioned Android in your post, but I just want to point out that Android in no way is more hacker-friendly. As soon as you obtain root access half of apps will stop to be feature-complete because Google have SafetyNet and there is no way at all to make your own legit "hacker" apps trusted to use elevated privileges. How is your phone is useful if part of games wont work, streaming wont work, banking apps dont work, etc. Of course they sell it under sauce of anti-malware and "security", but it's Android have anti-consumer DRM system that make your compromise between useful apps and whatever hacks you wish to apply. So not that much more useful compared to jailbroken iOS.
- gear54rus 7y ago
  > there is no way at all to make your own legit "hacker" apps trusted to use elevated privileges Of course there is. To circumvent this closed apple-esque bullshit you can just install magisk.
  - SXX 7y ago
    My point is that Android as platform don't have this feature and it's vendor only care about interests of carriers, pro-DRM media companies and own ads business. Magisk is never ending cat and mouse game and at any moment Google can just add some hardware-backed privileged rootkit that not going to be easy to bypass. So it's not always usable for every app out there.

privateSFacct 7y ago

"By default, users have a unique tracking/advertising ID attached to their phone." Google has the same thing, and with apple if you care you can opt out. "When Limit Ad Tracking is enabled on iOS 10 or later, the Advertising Identifier is replaced with a non-unique value of all zeros to prevent the serving of targeted ads. It is automatically reset to a new random identifier if you disable Limit Ad Tracking." So this is a positive in apple's case over google privacy wise, not a negative against google. "- iOS is extremely restrictive, making certain privacy adjustments impossible." Generally you can't get unremovable malaware installed on an iphone you buy from apple. If this type of privacy restriction makes you choose android privacy invading phones - go for android. Many people like the locked down Apple setup.

surround 7y ago
> Generally you can't get unremovable malaware installed on an iphone. Apple uses FUD to justify restricting users from doing what they want with their phone. > If this type of privacy restriction makes you choose android privacy invading phones - go for android. This is not what I’m talking about. I want to be able to use tools such as NetGuard to enhance privacy, which iOS doesn’t allow.
- judge2020 7y ago
  "FUD" isn't so uncertain when there is known widespread android malware. iOS malware only happens in extreme cases (like ransomware via a bad profile https://i.blackhat.com/briefings/asia/2018/asia-18-Zhu-and-Li-Death-Profile-wp.pdf https://i.blackhat.com/briefings/asia/2018/asia-18-Zhu-and-L... ), via something like XcodeGhost, or via safari tech support scams. Just look at how stark of contrast there is between the lists of malware for both devices - https://www.cyber.nj.gov/threat-profiles/android-malware-variants https://www.cyber.nj.gov/threat-profiles/android-malware-var... and https://www.cyber.nj.gov/threat-profiles/ios/#list-of-known-ios-malware https://www.cyber.nj.gov/threat-profiles/ios/#list-of-known-....
  - wor3q 7y ago
    Have you read what types of malware is on the list? "Download and install this app from sketchy place" kind of thing...