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What to do if you’re stopped by the police

240 points by cassbot 7y ago

VitoVan 7y ago
I really appreciate something more like this, with more countries included other than USA, like: India / China / Russia
- paranoidrobot 7y ago
  In many countries, the answers get really complicated, really quickly, and can vary based on location and other factors. For instance in NSW Australia, you may be cautioned by police that “You have the right to remain silent. Anything you do say will be taken down and may be used in evidence against you. It may harm your defence if you fail to mention something now which you later rely on in court.” [1][2] The impact of this is incredibly complicated, and it'll take a lawyer to fully explain it. Which, if you don't have one on hand when you're questioned - can be a major issue. [1] http://theconversation.com/when-you-say-nothing-at-all-nsw-and-the-right-to-silence-12962 http://theconversation.com/when-you-say-nothing-at-all-nsw-a... [2] https://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/oppn-slammed-over-nsw-right-to-silence-law/news-story/27dd05e7b8c5b79661e0d3fefc240cd9 https://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/oppn-slammed-...
  - AlexCoventry 7y ago
    The Interview is a great movie about this, with Russell Crowe and Hugo Weaving.
    - paranoidrobot 7y ago
      I'm not sure I'm following this comment. The only movie I can find with both of those actors in it is Proof[1] from 1991, and it doesn't seem to be about anything to do with law enforcement/not speaking to police/right to silence. [1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102721/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102721/
      - AlexCoventry 7y ago
        Ah, I was confused. It was Hugo Weaving and Tony Martin. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120714/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120714/
- thrower123 7y ago
  A crash course on whether to offer a bribe, how much is customary, and the manner in which such an offering is made really ought to be included with the SkyMall magazine.
  - ntr-- 7y ago
    here's one http://www.whoismcafee.com/the-travel-guide/ http://www.whoismcafee.com/the-travel-guide/
- wruza 7y ago
  Russia: ianal and giving advices is a “bear’s service” (making it only worse for you), but I can share my knowledge on interacting with the police. First thing is we here don’t have many guns and the status quo it’s not a crime to touch or bad manner the policeman (while not recommended, they can turn it against you easily at will). Second thing is you usually want to know what the case really is, and what they know and think in general, so “remaining silent” may play against you. How it works: you get a sudden call, “hey wruza it’s you? Uhm maybe not, who’s asking? It’s detective Borisov, can you please meet me at my office here I have questions”. That’s it. You don’t get more info over the phone and if you ignore, you may get in a unknown trouble, even if they decide to not force you later in their office (it is not a crime to not go there, but they can give you a free mandatory ride if necessary). If you ignore or “remain silent” from the doorstep, you’re simply playing a blind hand against something serious. You’re innocent until guilty, so you better collect/ensure your own evidence, since it tends to decay with time. Fighting and resisting (injuring even slightly) the police is a crime, but chances to get shot are minuscle compared to US. Gun rules are strict for them too, and even in a dangerous situation they don’t shoot an entire fucking clip into you, as youtube usually shows for US. YT search for “Полиция застрелила” (graphic content warning). It is usually few minutes of open and/or armed aggression against a cop before he decides to pull a gun. Each shot is a hard paperwork and a risk of losing their job or freedom. Another big difference is that documents and witnessing is everything, words are nothing. You have to be damn sure that the protocol contains your words as you said it and as they asked, not rephrased or manipulated. Having a bad memory doesn’t count as a lie or justice/investigation obstruction, but a judge may find it strange that you recall everything except that one day or event.
  - AstralStorm 7y ago
    Most importantly, you deal with prosecutor, advocate and judge, but not a jury like in the USA, so lying to the Police has much less chance to backfire. Lying stupidly is obviously bad anyway. Lying in court, very bad.
- masonic 7y ago
  The Mexican short film "La Graduacion" is about a newly graduated doctor shaken down on his drive to his first position: https://www.pbs.org/video/la-graduacion-pzk2mf/ https://www.pbs.org/video/la-graduacion-pzk2mf/
MattyRad 7y ago
"Don't Talk to the Police", the video by James Duane linked in the article, is essential viewing. It's so succinct and cogent, I end up rewatching it usually on a yearly basis because I have it saved locally.
- amishadowbanned 7y ago
  His tips only work if ur white tho
pmiller2 7y ago
TL;DR: * Act like a normal, sensible person. Don't try to provoke them, and don't give them any reason to escalate the encounter. * Don't allow police in your home without a warrant. * Affirmatively deny consent for searches. This includes your home, car, and personal belongings. * Assert your right to remain silent. Unless you're reporting a crime where you're the victim (and, sometimes, even then), you should only talk to police with a lawyer representing you present.
- d1zzy 7y ago
  How much of that is it reasonable to do as an immigrant? Aren't police allowed too search all sorts of things with easy excuse? My refusal is a form of escalation especially since they can arrest me on whatever, then let me go, and that alone could jeopardize my immigration status (all those visa questionnaires starting with "have you ever been arrested").
  - catalogia 7y ago
    If you consent to the search, what's to say they don't hose you anyway?
    - newguy1234 7y ago
      nothing
  - dredmorbius 7y ago
    Why concede your adversary any advantage. By calmly and clearly asserting your rights, you're preserving whatever slight edge you have. All the better if there are witnesses or recordings. Allowing searches, answering questions, fleeing, or resisting, all work against you. Stating you don't assent, clarifying that requests are orders, and complying under protest, are options. "Good (morning|day|evening) officer" is a good starting response. It makes clear that you aren't rattled, and concedes nothing. And no, immigrants (or minorities) don't start with a fair break. But you can keep from letting that disadvantage erode further. Slow movements, hands in sight, etc., all help.
nothrabannosir 7y ago
According to lawyers I’ve spoken to in the U.K., your refusal to talk to the police is admissible as ... it’s somehow admissible in court. The prosecutor is allowed to tell a jury that it’s suspect you didn’t want to talk to the cops without a lawyer. Or something. Can someone with know how elaborate on what exactly this means, in practical terms? What should someone do in the U.K.? Still remain silent?
- mantap 7y ago
  Your best bet is to remain silent unless your solicitor tells you overwise. If you are arrested in the UK you have a right to legal advice from the "duty solicitor". Your refusal to speak to police can't be the only evidence against you. Silence is not a confession. It merely means that when you're in court the prosecution may make something of the fact that you didn't say anything to the police. They may claim that your testimony is less credible than it would have been. But it's up to the jury whether or not they agree with that. It is much more important what you say in court. On the other hand, if you do speak to the police that may well be used against you as well, indeed it may be the main evidence if you unintentionally admit to a crime that you didn't know you committed, or you may provide crucial evidence for one aspect of a crime (such as intention) that would otherwise be difficult for them to prove. If you do say something to police, a transcript will be made and it probably will be available to the jury. They will compare what you said to the police to what you said in court. Your court date may be a long time from your police interview. So you'd better be sure you can reproduce your answers months into the future.
- sjy 7y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_silence_in_England_and_Wales https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_silence_in_England_an... elaborates on the special rules you've alluded to, which apply in certain situations in England and Wales. Unfortunately, the answer to "what should someone do if questioned by police" is still "it depends."
- indymike 7y ago
  The US was founded by people who felt they were oppressed in Britain. There's a handy chart at the bottom of this web page that explains the differences: https://prestonbyrne.com/2016/01/06/uk-us-comparison/ https://prestonbyrne.com/2016/01/06/uk-us-comparison/
jdoliner 7y ago
Every time something like this comes up I'm reminded of one time I was stopped by a police officer walking down the street. I felt a tap on my shoulder, turned around and was greeted by an officer in uniform, I wracked my brain trying to remember what I'd read on the internet about talking to the police and was just about to blurt out "Am I under arrest or am I free to go officer?" When he told me: "You dropped your wallet a ways back son, here you go" and handed it to me. "Thank you officer." I said sheepishly, and went on my way. Not to say that this isn't great advice that people should follow in general.
- catalogia 7y ago
  My rule of thumb is to treat cops the way I'd like to be treated if I was in their shoes. Which is to say, with a pleasant but firm demeanor. I don't consent to searches and I don't volunteer much of any information, but I treat them as respectfully as I'd treat any other stranger I encountered. Pleasant smiles, "have a nice day", etc. The same as I'd treat a retail worker. My brother pulled the "AM I BEING DETAINED" routine with a cop during a traffic stop when he was 17 and it didn't go very well for him. Knowing your rights and being firm about it is important, but on the other hand you don't want to sound like a cop-hating sovereign citizen, since those of people make cops afraid and fear is not an emotion you want to encourage during interactions with the police.
  - SamReidHughes 7y ago
    What an amateur. Your brother should have told the officer his traffic stop was unconstitional, under the 1st amendment, because his driving is a form of self-expression.
    - catalogia 7y ago
      I know right? He didn't even cite maritime law and claim to be 'traveling'!
      - kjs3 7y ago
slumdev 7y ago
We live in a police state. If you're not an attorney (or as well versed in law as the attorney in the video), your best bet is usually to be friendly and comply. You comply because they're allowed to lie to you, they're allowed to search you with very little reason, and they're allowed to arrest you using circumstances and behaviors that they knowingly and purposefully antagonize out of you. And this is how freedom dies.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  And don't forget, in the USA, complying with requests given by a person carrying a gun and a license to kill you, is considered freely given consent that waives your rights.
- bitexploder 7y ago
  Letting the search happens only makes it worse. Force them to have probable cause or violate your rights. Know your basic rights and assert them. Not doing so only helps the police state.
- newguy1234 7y ago
  Let them violate your rights so you can sue them.
- Johnny555 7y ago
  Given what you just said, why would you comply? Seems better to heed the Miranda warning "Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law" and just say "I'd like to talk to an attorney first". Whether you did what you're suspected of or not, given how the deck is stacked against you, compliance seems like the wrong choice and you may very well end up making things worse for yourself. The cop is already pretty sure you did it (or he wouldn't have brought you in), so seems like there's little you can say that will change his mind.
  - thephyber 7y ago
    > The cop is already pretty sure you did it (or he wouldn't have brought you in) There are different stages before arrest that matter here. There is a burden of "reasonable suspicion", "probable cause", etc. (or some equivalent like "exigent circumstances"). An arrest requires both of these, plus some evidence of a crime. Being convicted at trial requires "beyond a reasonable doubt" (for criminal charges, as opposed to {civil, tax, military}).
emptybits 7y ago
Great advice. Important conversation. Stating the obvious, I hope, but advice should vary by jurisdiction so here's the Canadian flavour of asserting rights around arrest, talking, search, etc.: https://bccla.org/our_work/the-arrest-handbook-a-guide-to-your-rights/ https://bccla.org/our_work/the-arrest-handbook-a-guide-to-yo... Wherever you live, please consider supporting your national or local Civil Liberties Association if you have time or money and want to keep the future as free as possible.
dmalvarado 7y ago
Main problem with this advice is, I can either assert my rights on principle, be detained, possibly held in lockup, deal with the lawyers and courts... Or I can just let them look in my empty trunk. I say this with full awareness of how fucked up it is, but your bet is to be white and polite.
- dredmorbius 7y ago
  Your trunk may well not be as empty as you think it is. The ability for police to detain you on no evidence is slight. And your opportunities for damages increase rapidly.
  - throwaway17_17 7y ago
    I can say with absolute confidence that the ability for law enforcement to DETAIN you on less than no evidence is vastly more than slight, it’s enormous. Further, law enforcement’s ability to arrest you on ZERO evidence is extensive and it take time, money, and effort to get free and clear of the unsubstantiated charges.
    - dredmorbius 7y ago
      Does standing up for your rights help or hurt? That's the salient question. I don't doubt your confidence, and, likely, experience. Only the specific strategy as outlined in this thread and article.
      - throwaway17_17 7y ago
        I would always encourage the exercise of rights, particularly against searches (as the parent mentioned). However, the refusal to search often, I hesitate to say always, but I can’t think any outstanding examples in my experience where a refusal to search did not automatically result in the search happening. And the results of that search in many cases will turn up enough ‘suspicion’ for the officer to arrest for some charge, even where actual evidence is clearly not enough. I will certainly say that this is not universal, but refusals to search are often cited as suspicious behaviors, which then turns into more suspicious behaviors giving more reasons to continue the detention. Also, the purported difference between detention and arrest is nearly useless in practice, who feels like they are free to just get in their car and drive off. So, the TL;DR is yes stand up for yourself and exercise your rights, but understand that in most cases in the US, if law enforcement wants to arrest you, they are going to find a reason to do so. Be smart, be safe.
leggomylibro 7y ago
Good advice, and that "Don't Talk to the Police" video is a classic must-watch for everyone who comes of age in the US. One other thing which goes along with being polite and courteous, never lie outright to an officer. Use weasel words like, "not that I can think of" or, "I'm not sure why you would think that." That might sound suspicious at first glance, but they'll assume in the moment that just about any direct statement is a lie, anyways. And even when you are completely confident in your universal innocence, any direct statement can be made to sound like a lie by an officer who wants to keep you off balance. Think like you're dealing with Cardinal Richelieu, who famously said: "If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him." It's really best to avoid any encounter with cops in the US; we do not practice "policing by consent". Obey basic traffic laws and don't speak to officers on the street, even if you think doing so might help someone. Here and now, all it takes is one bad apple to give your life a terrible and irrevocable turn for the worse, assuming that you are lucky enough to leave the encounter with your life. Don't get me wrong, I've left plenty of interactions thinking about how polite and professional the officer who I had been speaking to was. But I've also experienced plenty of cops who were callous, dishonest, insecure, and predatory, and we do not have any institutional safeguards to remove them from positions of authority. So any interaction with the law in the US is a roll of the dice, with your life/career/family/etc on the line. Are you feeling lucky?
- iudqnolq 7y ago
  > One other thing which goes along with being polite and courteous, never lie outright to an officer. Use weasel words like, "not that I can think of" or, "I'm not sure why you would think that." That might sound suspicious at first glance, but they'll assume in the moment that just about any direct statement is a lie, anyways. If you're thinking about clever hacks to use when you're talking to the police you're doing it wrong. (Unless you're AL, IANAL etc.)
  - leggomylibro 7y ago
    It's just that a certain type of officer is usually eager to catch you in a lie; it gives them leverage, and it often flusters people into saying things that they didn't mean to. You also don't want, "...and they lied to me about it" to show up in future discussions. Ideally you would simply never speak with a police officer. But this is a stressful and unwanted situation that we're talking about, and most people (myself certainly included) aren't going to know how to assert every one of their rights that are relevant to a situation in that stressful moment. It's fairly easy to remember to avoid giving the officers anything to work with, though. But you make a good point, I'm not a lawyer and I only speak from anecdotal experience.
CodeAndCuffs 7y ago
Former cop here. The article states "You cannot lie to the police". This is, generally, incorrect. Some jurisdictions may have some specific law, but other than certain exceptions, lying has no general consequence. If it did, there would be a lot more charges against pretty much everyone who has been arrested. In my experience, people will lie about stuff that's not even relevant, or helpful to them. Exceptions include things like giving a fake ID or name/dob or SSN to avoid certain identifications (e.g. on a traffic stop). Also, lying to a federal agent during their investigation is illegal, to my understanding. In Virginia, if you lie to the police regarding the investigation of a different person than yourself, it is considered obstruction of justice, though I can think of maybe one time that I heard of that law being used that way. But in general, it's a good article. Assert your rights politely, but firmly. If the cop disregards it, don't try to stop them. If the cop does illegal stuff violating 4th and 5th amendment, there's a chance the case gets tossed (as it should). If you try to physically stop the 4th amendment violation, and you're wrong about it being a violation, you just made your problem worse. Of the people who've accused me of violating their rights, 0 have been correct, but plenty of people have asserted their rights, and stopped an investigation that I had reasonable suspicion, but not probable cause on, and no further means to reasonably develop PC.
- gjs278 7y ago
  > Of the people who've accused me of violating their rights, 0 have been correct every cop thinks this is true. why would they intentionally violate a right?
- cassbot 7y ago
  IANAL but my understanding was that lying to the police opens you up to obstruction of justice charges -- or perjury. For instance, I learned from law professor James Duane's video that Martha Stewart would have completely avoided prison time if she had not lied to investigators. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE&feature=emb_title&t=24m20s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE&feature=emb_titl...
  - CodeAndCuffs 7y ago
quicklime 7y ago
> "I'm going to remain silent. I'd like to see a lawyer." On TV shows, the guy would then call his lawyer, who is under a retainer or something. The lawyer has all the context on exactly what's going on, and tells him exactly what to do, and he gets off free. But as someone who doesn't have a lawyer, what exactly happens if and when the cop agrees to this? Are they obligated to provide me with a lawyer? Or do I need to know one, or know how to find one? Do I need to do this while detained or do I have some time to do it?
- simple_phrases 7y ago
  Anything you say after "I want a lawyer" isn't admissable in court. A smart cop would end their questioning there.
  - lonelappde 7y ago
    Sadly, this is not true. The police can say you were joking and some (racist) judges believe it. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2017/11/02/the-suspect-told-police-give-me-a-lawyer-dog-the-court-says-he-wasnt-asking-for-a-lawyer/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2017/11/02...
  - kjs3 7y ago
    I'm assuming you aren't a lawyer. Or are a really bad one.
- thaumasiotes 7y ago
  > what exactly happens if and when the cop agrees to this? I don't believe they are obligated to provide you with a lawyer. A court is obligated to do this; the police aren't. The point of this advice is to make sure that you don't say anything to the police, or -- if you do -- to get it thrown out of court. Because of some bad precedent, you need to make the statement that you do not wish to answer their questions as explicit as possible. You actually don't need to request a lawyer, but doing so has some beneficial effects. What happens? The police may ignore your expressed desire to remain silent and continue questioning you. If you are resistant to social pressure, this doesn't matter. If you aren't, you may keep answering them. Your answers should be inadmissible in court. They may not be, based on some potential arguments by the police: - We didn't understand that he wanted to remain silent. His wording was too confusing. (This is why the advice here tells you to use the words "remain silent".) - We stopped the interview, but then we started another one and he spoke to us willingly. That second point is much harder for them to argue if you expressed that you did not wish to speak to them without benefit of counsel. There is no clear line to draw between the end of one interview and the beginning of a second interview after the interviewee has had a change of heart. but it is in fact obvious to the police, even in the eyes of the court, that once you've said "I will not speak to you without the advice of a lawyer", a second interview begun before you've had the opportunity to speak to a lawyer is illegitimate.
dsfyu404ed 7y ago
This article is a great damage control policy. You should be able to avoid getting screwed by following its advice. That said, this is a complex topic and an article of that length can only cover so much. There's a lot of nuance in these kinds of things (human interaction is complex) and by behaving as the situation demands an not coming off as one of those sovereign citizen types you can turn a lot of $50 "contempt of cop while having a tail light out" tickets into warnings without giving up your rights.
tjpnz 7y ago
So it's true that you're liable in the US to having your brains blown out if you try to reach for anything?
- throwaway55554 7y ago
  Knowing that cops carry, would you really want to risk it?
  - jlgaddis 7y ago
    Not only do they carry guns, they are trained to automatically assume that everyone they encounter is out to kill them! Imagine how paranoid and afraid that'd make you after a while! Given that, it's not really surprising we have police officers killing someone who "pulled a gun" -- except that then they discover it was just a candy bar. I've got a few friends who are police officers and I wouldn't want to do their jobs. Of course, my LEO friends are all older, smarter, and, due to experience I suppose, more "laid back". Nowadays the first thing drilled into a new police officer's head is that "everyone wants to kill you".
throwaway55554 7y ago
#1 - After you pull over, place your car in park, and turn it off, put your hands (both!) on the steering wheel and do not move them until the officer asks for your license.
logotype 7y ago
These tips does not work in Hong Kong. Police can do whatever they want without any accountability. One officer even drove into a crowd of people, was put on paid leave and back at work a month after. Horrible!
toadi 7y ago
Title should be if you get stopped in the US by the police. The US until today is not the world. In my country have been stopped by police a lot. Most of the time they are civilized. Some cases they can come over as dicks but as long as you don't escalate the situation and stay friendly nothing will happen.
- knocte 7y ago
  THIS. In any other country that is not the US, the advice given by the article is really bad advice.
  - thephyber 7y ago
    Conversely, there is no such thing as "advice given in X article is really great advice in all countries". All countries have different laws. Whenever you read about how law is applied, put it in the correct context of the jurisdiction and time frame in which it is written.
  - tasuki 7y ago
    What would be better advice for, say, most of EU?
    - knocte 7y ago
      Do what you are told. If you have nothing to hide, you will not get into trouble.
      - tasuki 7y ago
        Thank you!
chadcmulligan 7y ago
So on the hacker news front page today: Colleges are closing because they're to expensive What to do if you're stopped by police The Top 10 books include 1984 and Fahrenheit 451 all we need is something about medical insurance sending people broke and the ever present incarceration rate. You guys should really fix this (not an American), its not that hard.
- Hydraulix989 7y ago
  We had an article about Debitor’s Prison existing again yesterday too.
- wyclif 7y ago
  I get what you're saying and I'm sympathetic to it— a lot of the HN user base is outside the USA. I think there should be more differentiation of USA-specific content in titles and such. But I think the assumption of YCombinator and HN is that since so much of what is under discussion here is SV related, then readers should assume it's USA-specific unless stated otherwise.
  - chadcmulligan 7y ago
    I meant fix the US :-) not hacker news showing the content. It seems a never ending stream of news from the US of things that are fixed (mostly) in every other western democracy but not in the US. Why do I care - well the US is the largest western democracy if it keeps heading this way then it will likely spread to us.
- masonic 7y ago
  The Top 10 books include 1984 and Fahrenheit 451 No, the top ten books checked out in the history of the NYC Public Library include those two titles. Fixing one's reading comprehension (or intellectual honesty) isn't that hard, either.
  - chadcmulligan 7y ago
    Thats the point you're arguing?
theothermkn 7y ago
James Duane recently updated his advice, incorrectly restated in the article and in many places in this thread, in a book entitled You Have the Right to Remain Innocent. There is a long and short of it, but I'd rather see you buy the book, so I'll just mention a few things. First, "I'd like to see a lawyer," is not nearly succinct nor strong enough, as per recent case law and Supreme Court rulings. Second, the Supreme Court has ruled that invoking the 5th Amendment can be admitted as evidence of guilt, especially if you say it wrong, as is simply remaining silent. Finally, the people in here saying to, for example, just assent to a search in order to be on their ways are hopelessly naive about the frequency of evidence planting, the potential to be misheard, misremembered, or deliberately misquoted by cops looking to get a tidy resolution to whatever messy situation confronts them. Not all of them, but enough of them and often enough that I cringe at most of the advice in this thread, much of which you (Yes, you!) personally think is great. Buy the book. It's cheap, and an engaging quick read. Good luck to you all!
thatiscool 7y ago
something is wrong with the system if you need to be so paranoid with the policeman. it seems people are living under fear and police force in the U.S. can easily abuse their power and walk free. Does anyone still remember the tragedy of Debian founder Ian Murdock suicided in San Francisco? in EU or Asia, policeforce seems more approachable.
- Polylactic_acid 7y ago
  The police in Australia are far from perfect but they seem like saints compared to American police. I have interacted with them a few times and it has always been very reasonable.
  - P_I_Staker 7y ago
    They're strip searching children, so I don't know that I'd hold them up as a shining example of excellent policing.
    - Polylactic_acid 7y ago
      Yes but at least they aren't shooting children. I know its a low bar to set but thats what people are discussing in this thread.
- P_I_Staker 7y ago
  We live in a police state. We've also greatly expanded what we consider criminal, and drastically upped the punishment. The USA has some serious soul searching to do regarding morality/punishment, and basically nothing is happening on that front.
luxuryballs 7y ago
Agree with most if this but not seeing any logic in telling an officer that you’ve got weapons.
- Double_a_92 7y ago
  Imagine you have your papers and a gun in the glovebox of your car... Opening and reaching into it maybe doens't look very safe.
  - luxuryballs 7y ago
    This is a great additional tip, I keep my papers in a compartment on the center console rather than in the locked glovebox with the 1911 for exactly this reason.
xivzgrev 7y ago
Wow. This article (or other equivalent) needs to be taught in every high school.
vijaybritto 7y ago
The title should add [IN USA]. Also this article should contain two sections for the whites and the non whites
muddyb0y 7y ago
The real question here is: why is an attorney driving an Uber?
lancefisher 7y ago
Don’t let them in without a warrant, but perhaps don’t even open the door. A friend of mine had a noise complaint called in on him. They just didn’t open the door when the cop showed up. He eventually went away. Not sure how often it works, but I found it hilarious.
fg6hr 7y ago
My observation from past 10 years is that 10 years ago 1/2 cops were nice and 1/2 cops were harsh, but professional. These days 1/2 cops are nice and 1/2 cops seem to actively create troubles out of thin air. Each interaction with a mean cop was saved by what I'd call status illegibility: the cop wasn't sure whether I'm a rich connected trouble-maker or just look like one. Short conversations with some cops reminded me typical conversations with professional corporate sociopaths when you aren't sure whether the person you're talking to is a skillful sociopath who tries to get something on you or just a chatty dude. Long time ago, when I was young and naive, I got pulled over by a seemingly friendly cop who felt very chatty. I gave him way too much information because I didn't understand what was going on and gave a wrong answer to a request to search my car. What probably saved me that time was his next question about where I work. After my answer he promptly returned my DL and let me go.
turkthrower123 7y ago
Pray. Being stopped by American police can be a death sentence for anyone. I knew a programmer who was murdered by the same police he called to help him. His crime? Schizophrenia. https://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2005/09/09/38582.php https://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2005/09/09/38582.php
- LyndsySimon 7y ago
  Interesting. I know devs with similar stories - though obviously with slightly different outcomes.

240 points by cassbot 7y ago

VitoVan 7y ago

I really appreciate something more like this, with more countries included other than USA, like: India / China / Russia

paranoidrobot 7y ago
In many countries, the answers get really complicated, really quickly, and can vary based on location and other factors. For instance in NSW Australia, you may be cautioned by police that “You have the right to remain silent. Anything you do say will be taken down and may be used in evidence against you. It may harm your defence if you fail to mention something now which you later rely on in court.” [1][2] The impact of this is incredibly complicated, and it'll take a lawyer to fully explain it. Which, if you don't have one on hand when you're questioned - can be a major issue. [1] http://theconversation.com/when-you-say-nothing-at-all-nsw-and-the-right-to-silence-12962 http://theconversation.com/when-you-say-nothing-at-all-nsw-a... [2] https://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/oppn-slammed-over-nsw-right-to-silence-law/news-story/27dd05e7b8c5b79661e0d3fefc240cd9 https://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/oppn-slammed-...
- AlexCoventry 7y ago
  The Interview is a great movie about this, with Russell Crowe and Hugo Weaving.
  - paranoidrobot 7y ago
    I'm not sure I'm following this comment. The only movie I can find with both of those actors in it is Proof[1] from 1991, and it doesn't seem to be about anything to do with law enforcement/not speaking to police/right to silence. [1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102721/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102721/
    - AlexCoventry 7y ago
      Ah, I was confused. It was Hugo Weaving and Tony Martin. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120714/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120714/
thrower123 7y ago
A crash course on whether to offer a bribe, how much is customary, and the manner in which such an offering is made really ought to be included with the SkyMall magazine.
- ntr-- 7y ago
  here's one http://www.whoismcafee.com/the-travel-guide/ http://www.whoismcafee.com/the-travel-guide/
wruza 7y ago
Russia: ianal and giving advices is a “bear’s service” (making it only worse for you), but I can share my knowledge on interacting with the police. First thing is we here don’t have many guns and the status quo it’s not a crime to touch or bad manner the policeman (while not recommended, they can turn it against you easily at will). Second thing is you usually want to know what the case really is, and what they know and think in general, so “remaining silent” may play against you. How it works: you get a sudden call, “hey wruza it’s you? Uhm maybe not, who’s asking? It’s detective Borisov, can you please meet me at my office here I have questions”. That’s it. You don’t get more info over the phone and if you ignore, you may get in a unknown trouble, even if they decide to not force you later in their office (it is not a crime to not go there, but they can give you a free mandatory ride if necessary). If you ignore or “remain silent” from the doorstep, you’re simply playing a blind hand against something serious. You’re innocent until guilty, so you better collect/ensure your own evidence, since it tends to decay with time. Fighting and resisting (injuring even slightly) the police is a crime, but chances to get shot are minuscle compared to US. Gun rules are strict for them too, and even in a dangerous situation they don’t shoot an entire fucking clip into you, as youtube usually shows for US. YT search for “Полиция застрелила” (graphic content warning). It is usually few minutes of open and/or armed aggression against a cop before he decides to pull a gun. Each shot is a hard paperwork and a risk of losing their job or freedom. Another big difference is that documents and witnessing is everything, words are nothing. You have to be damn sure that the protocol contains your words as you said it and as they asked, not rephrased or manipulated. Having a bad memory doesn’t count as a lie or justice/investigation obstruction, but a judge may find it strange that you recall everything except that one day or event.
- AstralStorm 7y ago
  Most importantly, you deal with prosecutor, advocate and judge, but not a jury like in the USA, so lying to the Police has much less chance to backfire. Lying stupidly is obviously bad anyway. Lying in court, very bad.
masonic 7y ago
The Mexican short film "La Graduacion" is about a newly graduated doctor shaken down on his drive to his first position: https://www.pbs.org/video/la-graduacion-pzk2mf/ https://www.pbs.org/video/la-graduacion-pzk2mf/

MattyRad 7y ago

"Don't Talk to the Police", the video by James Duane linked in the article, is essential viewing. It's so succinct and cogent, I end up rewatching it usually on a yearly basis because I have it saved locally.

amishadowbanned 7y ago
His tips only work if ur white tho

pmiller2 7y ago

TL;DR: * Act like a normal, sensible person. Don't try to provoke them, and don't give them any reason to escalate the encounter. * Don't allow police in your home without a warrant. * Affirmatively deny consent for searches. This includes your home, car, and personal belongings. * Assert your right to remain silent. Unless you're reporting a crime where you're the victim (and, sometimes, even then), you should only talk to police with a lawyer representing you present.

d1zzy 7y ago
How much of that is it reasonable to do as an immigrant? Aren't police allowed too search all sorts of things with easy excuse? My refusal is a form of escalation especially since they can arrest me on whatever, then let me go, and that alone could jeopardize my immigration status (all those visa questionnaires starting with "have you ever been arrested").
- catalogia 7y ago
  If you consent to the search, what's to say they don't hose you anyway?
  - newguy1234 7y ago
    nothing
- dredmorbius 7y ago
  Why concede your adversary any advantage. By calmly and clearly asserting your rights, you're preserving whatever slight edge you have. All the better if there are witnesses or recordings. Allowing searches, answering questions, fleeing, or resisting, all work against you. Stating you don't assent, clarifying that requests are orders, and complying under protest, are options. "Good (morning|day|evening) officer" is a good starting response. It makes clear that you aren't rattled, and concedes nothing. And no, immigrants (or minorities) don't start with a fair break. But you can keep from letting that disadvantage erode further. Slow movements, hands in sight, etc., all help.

nothrabannosir 7y ago

According to lawyers I’ve spoken to in the U.K., your refusal to talk to the police is admissible as ... it’s somehow admissible in court. The prosecutor is allowed to tell a jury that it’s suspect you didn’t want to talk to the cops without a lawyer. Or something. Can someone with know how elaborate on what exactly this means, in practical terms? What should someone do in the U.K.? Still remain silent?

mantap 7y ago
Your best bet is to remain silent unless your solicitor tells you overwise. If you are arrested in the UK you have a right to legal advice from the "duty solicitor". Your refusal to speak to police can't be the only evidence against you. Silence is not a confession. It merely means that when you're in court the prosecution may make something of the fact that you didn't say anything to the police. They may claim that your testimony is less credible than it would have been. But it's up to the jury whether or not they agree with that. It is much more important what you say in court. On the other hand, if you do speak to the police that may well be used against you as well, indeed it may be the main evidence if you unintentionally admit to a crime that you didn't know you committed, or you may provide crucial evidence for one aspect of a crime (such as intention) that would otherwise be difficult for them to prove. If you do say something to police, a transcript will be made and it probably will be available to the jury. They will compare what you said to the police to what you said in court. Your court date may be a long time from your police interview. So you'd better be sure you can reproduce your answers months into the future.
sjy 7y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_silence_in_England_and_Wales https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_silence_in_England_an... elaborates on the special rules you've alluded to, which apply in certain situations in England and Wales. Unfortunately, the answer to "what should someone do if questioned by police" is still "it depends."
indymike 7y ago
The US was founded by people who felt they were oppressed in Britain. There's a handy chart at the bottom of this web page that explains the differences: https://prestonbyrne.com/2016/01/06/uk-us-comparison/ https://prestonbyrne.com/2016/01/06/uk-us-comparison/

jdoliner 7y ago

Every time something like this comes up I'm reminded of one time I was stopped by a police officer walking down the street. I felt a tap on my shoulder, turned around and was greeted by an officer in uniform, I wracked my brain trying to remember what I'd read on the internet about talking to the police and was just about to blurt out "Am I under arrest or am I free to go officer?" When he told me: "You dropped your wallet a ways back son, here you go" and handed it to me. "Thank you officer." I said sheepishly, and went on my way. Not to say that this isn't great advice that people should follow in general.

catalogia 7y ago
My rule of thumb is to treat cops the way I'd like to be treated if I was in their shoes. Which is to say, with a pleasant but firm demeanor. I don't consent to searches and I don't volunteer much of any information, but I treat them as respectfully as I'd treat any other stranger I encountered. Pleasant smiles, "have a nice day", etc. The same as I'd treat a retail worker. My brother pulled the "AM I BEING DETAINED" routine with a cop during a traffic stop when he was 17 and it didn't go very well for him. Knowing your rights and being firm about it is important, but on the other hand you don't want to sound like a cop-hating sovereign citizen, since those of people make cops afraid and fear is not an emotion you want to encourage during interactions with the police.
- SamReidHughes 7y ago
  What an amateur. Your brother should have told the officer his traffic stop was unconstitional, under the 1st amendment, because his driving is a form of self-expression.
  - catalogia 7y ago
    I know right? He didn't even cite maritime law and claim to be 'traveling'!
    - kjs3 7y ago

slumdev 7y ago

We live in a police state. If you're not an attorney (or as well versed in law as the attorney in the video), your best bet is usually to be friendly and comply. You comply because they're allowed to lie to you, they're allowed to search you with very little reason, and they're allowed to arrest you using circumstances and behaviors that they knowingly and purposefully antagonize out of you. And this is how freedom dies.

lonelappde 7y ago
And don't forget, in the USA, complying with requests given by a person carrying a gun and a license to kill you, is considered freely given consent that waives your rights.
bitexploder 7y ago
Letting the search happens only makes it worse. Force them to have probable cause or violate your rights. Know your basic rights and assert them. Not doing so only helps the police state.
newguy1234 7y ago
Let them violate your rights so you can sue them.
Johnny555 7y ago
Given what you just said, why would you comply? Seems better to heed the Miranda warning "Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law" and just say "I'd like to talk to an attorney first". Whether you did what you're suspected of or not, given how the deck is stacked against you, compliance seems like the wrong choice and you may very well end up making things worse for yourself. The cop is already pretty sure you did it (or he wouldn't have brought you in), so seems like there's little you can say that will change his mind.
- thephyber 7y ago
  > The cop is already pretty sure you did it (or he wouldn't have brought you in) There are different stages before arrest that matter here. There is a burden of "reasonable suspicion", "probable cause", etc. (or some equivalent like "exigent circumstances"). An arrest requires both of these, plus some evidence of a crime. Being convicted at trial requires "beyond a reasonable doubt" (for criminal charges, as opposed to {civil, tax, military}).

emptybits 7y ago

Great advice. Important conversation. Stating the obvious, I hope, but advice should vary by jurisdiction so here's the Canadian flavour of asserting rights around arrest, talking, search, etc.: https://bccla.org/our_work/the-arrest-handbook-a-guide-to-your-rights/ https://bccla.org/our_work/the-arrest-handbook-a-guide-to-yo... Wherever you live, please consider supporting your national or local Civil Liberties Association if you have time or money and want to keep the future as free as possible.

dmalvarado 7y ago

Main problem with this advice is, I can either assert my rights on principle, be detained, possibly held in lockup, deal with the lawyers and courts... Or I can just let them look in my empty trunk. I say this with full awareness of how fucked up it is, but your bet is to be white and polite.

dredmorbius 7y ago
Your trunk may well not be as empty as you think it is. The ability for police to detain you on no evidence is slight. And your opportunities for damages increase rapidly.
- throwaway17_17 7y ago
  I can say with absolute confidence that the ability for law enforcement to DETAIN you on less than no evidence is vastly more than slight, it’s enormous. Further, law enforcement’s ability to arrest you on ZERO evidence is extensive and it take time, money, and effort to get free and clear of the unsubstantiated charges.
  - dredmorbius 7y ago
    Does standing up for your rights help or hurt? That's the salient question. I don't doubt your confidence, and, likely, experience. Only the specific strategy as outlined in this thread and article.
    - throwaway17_17 7y ago
      I would always encourage the exercise of rights, particularly against searches (as the parent mentioned). However, the refusal to search often, I hesitate to say always, but I can’t think any outstanding examples in my experience where a refusal to search did not automatically result in the search happening. And the results of that search in many cases will turn up enough ‘suspicion’ for the officer to arrest for some charge, even where actual evidence is clearly not enough. I will certainly say that this is not universal, but refusals to search are often cited as suspicious behaviors, which then turns into more suspicious behaviors giving more reasons to continue the detention. Also, the purported difference between detention and arrest is nearly useless in practice, who feels like they are free to just get in their car and drive off. So, the TL;DR is yes stand up for yourself and exercise your rights, but understand that in most cases in the US, if law enforcement wants to arrest you, they are going to find a reason to do so. Be smart, be safe.

leggomylibro 7y ago

Good advice, and that "Don't Talk to the Police" video is a classic must-watch for everyone who comes of age in the US. One other thing which goes along with being polite and courteous, never lie outright to an officer. Use weasel words like, "not that I can think of" or, "I'm not sure why you would think that." That might sound suspicious at first glance, but they'll assume in the moment that just about any direct statement is a lie, anyways. And even when you are completely confident in your universal innocence, any direct statement can be made to sound like a lie by an officer who wants to keep you off balance. Think like you're dealing with Cardinal Richelieu, who famously said: "If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him." It's really best to avoid any encounter with cops in the US; we do not practice "policing by consent". Obey basic traffic laws and don't speak to officers on the street, even if you think doing so might help someone. Here and now, all it takes is one bad apple to give your life a terrible and irrevocable turn for the worse, assuming that you are lucky enough to leave the encounter with your life. Don't get me wrong, I've left plenty of interactions thinking about how polite and professional the officer who I had been speaking to was. But I've also experienced plenty of cops who were callous, dishonest, insecure, and predatory, and we do not have any institutional safeguards to remove them from positions of authority. So any interaction with the law in the US is a roll of the dice, with your life/career/family/etc on the line. Are you feeling lucky?

iudqnolq 7y ago
> One other thing which goes along with being polite and courteous, never lie outright to an officer. Use weasel words like, "not that I can think of" or, "I'm not sure why you would think that." That might sound suspicious at first glance, but they'll assume in the moment that just about any direct statement is a lie, anyways. If you're thinking about clever hacks to use when you're talking to the police you're doing it wrong. (Unless you're AL, IANAL etc.)
- leggomylibro 7y ago
  It's just that a certain type of officer is usually eager to catch you in a lie; it gives them leverage, and it often flusters people into saying things that they didn't mean to. You also don't want, "...and they lied to me about it" to show up in future discussions. Ideally you would simply never speak with a police officer. But this is a stressful and unwanted situation that we're talking about, and most people (myself certainly included) aren't going to know how to assert every one of their rights that are relevant to a situation in that stressful moment. It's fairly easy to remember to avoid giving the officers anything to work with, though. But you make a good point, I'm not a lawyer and I only speak from anecdotal experience.

CodeAndCuffs 7y ago

Former cop here. The article states "You cannot lie to the police". This is, generally, incorrect. Some jurisdictions may have some specific law, but other than certain exceptions, lying has no general consequence. If it did, there would be a lot more charges against pretty much everyone who has been arrested. In my experience, people will lie about stuff that's not even relevant, or helpful to them. Exceptions include things like giving a fake ID or name/dob or SSN to avoid certain identifications (e.g. on a traffic stop). Also, lying to a federal agent during their investigation is illegal, to my understanding. In Virginia, if you lie to the police regarding the investigation of a different person than yourself, it is considered obstruction of justice, though I can think of maybe one time that I heard of that law being used that way. But in general, it's a good article. Assert your rights politely, but firmly. If the cop disregards it, don't try to stop them. If the cop does illegal stuff violating 4th and 5th amendment, there's a chance the case gets tossed (as it should). If you try to physically stop the 4th amendment violation, and you're wrong about it being a violation, you just made your problem worse. Of the people who've accused me of violating their rights, 0 have been correct, but plenty of people have asserted their rights, and stopped an investigation that I had reasonable suspicion, but not probable cause on, and no further means to reasonably develop PC.

gjs278 7y ago
> Of the people who've accused me of violating their rights, 0 have been correct every cop thinks this is true. why would they intentionally violate a right?
cassbot 7y ago
IANAL but my understanding was that lying to the police opens you up to obstruction of justice charges -- or perjury. For instance, I learned from law professor James Duane's video that Martha Stewart would have completely avoided prison time if she had not lied to investigators. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE&feature=emb_title&t=24m20s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE&feature=emb_titl...
- CodeAndCuffs 7y ago

quicklime 7y ago

> "I'm going to remain silent. I'd like to see a lawyer." On TV shows, the guy would then call his lawyer, who is under a retainer or something. The lawyer has all the context on exactly what's going on, and tells him exactly what to do, and he gets off free. But as someone who doesn't have a lawyer, what exactly happens if and when the cop agrees to this? Are they obligated to provide me with a lawyer? Or do I need to know one, or know how to find one? Do I need to do this while detained or do I have some time to do it?

simple_phrases 7y ago
Anything you say after "I want a lawyer" isn't admissable in court. A smart cop would end their questioning there.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  Sadly, this is not true. The police can say you were joking and some (racist) judges believe it. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2017/11/02/the-suspect-told-police-give-me-a-lawyer-dog-the-court-says-he-wasnt-asking-for-a-lawyer/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2017/11/02...
- kjs3 7y ago
  I'm assuming you aren't a lawyer. Or are a really bad one.
thaumasiotes 7y ago
> what exactly happens if and when the cop agrees to this? I don't believe they are obligated to provide you with a lawyer. A court is obligated to do this; the police aren't. The point of this advice is to make sure that you don't say anything to the police, or -- if you do -- to get it thrown out of court. Because of some bad precedent, you need to make the statement that you do not wish to answer their questions as explicit as possible. You actually don't need to request a lawyer, but doing so has some beneficial effects. What happens? The police may ignore your expressed desire to remain silent and continue questioning you. If you are resistant to social pressure, this doesn't matter. If you aren't, you may keep answering them. Your answers should be inadmissible in court. They may not be, based on some potential arguments by the police: - We didn't understand that he wanted to remain silent. His wording was too confusing. (This is why the advice here tells you to use the words "remain silent".) - We stopped the interview, but then we started another one and he spoke to us willingly. That second point is much harder for them to argue if you expressed that you did not wish to speak to them without benefit of counsel. There is no clear line to draw between the end of one interview and the beginning of a second interview after the interviewee has had a change of heart. but it is in fact obvious to the police, even in the eyes of the court, that once you've said "I will not speak to you without the advice of a lawyer", a second interview begun before you've had the opportunity to speak to a lawyer is illegitimate.

dsfyu404ed 7y ago

This article is a great damage control policy. You should be able to avoid getting screwed by following its advice. That said, this is a complex topic and an article of that length can only cover so much. There's a lot of nuance in these kinds of things (human interaction is complex) and by behaving as the situation demands an not coming off as one of those sovereign citizen types you can turn a lot of $50 "contempt of cop while having a tail light out" tickets into warnings without giving up your rights.

tjpnz 7y ago

So it's true that you're liable in the US to having your brains blown out if you try to reach for anything?

throwaway55554 7y ago
Knowing that cops carry, would you really want to risk it?
- jlgaddis 7y ago
  Not only do they carry guns, they are trained to automatically assume that everyone they encounter is out to kill them! Imagine how paranoid and afraid that'd make you after a while! Given that, it's not really surprising we have police officers killing someone who "pulled a gun" -- except that then they discover it was just a candy bar. I've got a few friends who are police officers and I wouldn't want to do their jobs. Of course, my LEO friends are all older, smarter, and, due to experience I suppose, more "laid back". Nowadays the first thing drilled into a new police officer's head is that "everyone wants to kill you".

throwaway55554 7y ago

#1 - After you pull over, place your car in park, and turn it off, put your hands (both!) on the steering wheel and do not move them until the officer asks for your license.

logotype 7y ago

These tips does not work in Hong Kong. Police can do whatever they want without any accountability. One officer even drove into a crowd of people, was put on paid leave and back at work a month after. Horrible!

toadi 7y ago

Title should be if you get stopped in the US by the police. The US until today is not the world. In my country have been stopped by police a lot. Most of the time they are civilized. Some cases they can come over as dicks but as long as you don't escalate the situation and stay friendly nothing will happen.

knocte 7y ago
THIS. In any other country that is not the US, the advice given by the article is really bad advice.
- thephyber 7y ago
  Conversely, there is no such thing as "advice given in X article is really great advice in all countries". All countries have different laws. Whenever you read about how law is applied, put it in the correct context of the jurisdiction and time frame in which it is written.
- tasuki 7y ago
  What would be better advice for, say, most of EU?
  - knocte 7y ago
    Do what you are told. If you have nothing to hide, you will not get into trouble.
    - tasuki 7y ago
      Thank you!

chadcmulligan 7y ago

So on the hacker news front page today: Colleges are closing because they're to expensive What to do if you're stopped by police The Top 10 books include 1984 and Fahrenheit 451 all we need is something about medical insurance sending people broke and the ever present incarceration rate. You guys should really fix this (not an American), its not that hard.

Hydraulix989 7y ago
We had an article about Debitor’s Prison existing again yesterday too.
wyclif 7y ago
I get what you're saying and I'm sympathetic to it— a lot of the HN user base is outside the USA. I think there should be more differentiation of USA-specific content in titles and such. But I think the assumption of YCombinator and HN is that since so much of what is under discussion here is SV related, then readers should assume it's USA-specific unless stated otherwise.
- chadcmulligan 7y ago
  I meant fix the US :-) not hacker news showing the content. It seems a never ending stream of news from the US of things that are fixed (mostly) in every other western democracy but not in the US. Why do I care - well the US is the largest western democracy if it keeps heading this way then it will likely spread to us.
masonic 7y ago
The Top 10 books include 1984 and Fahrenheit 451 No, the top ten books checked out in the history of the NYC Public Library include those two titles. Fixing one's reading comprehension (or intellectual honesty) isn't that hard, either.
- chadcmulligan 7y ago
  Thats the point you're arguing?

theothermkn 7y ago

James Duane recently updated his advice, incorrectly restated in the article and in many places in this thread, in a book entitled You Have the Right to Remain Innocent. There is a long and short of it, but I'd rather see you buy the book, so I'll just mention a few things. First, "I'd like to see a lawyer," is not nearly succinct nor strong enough, as per recent case law and Supreme Court rulings. Second, the Supreme Court has ruled that invoking the 5th Amendment can be admitted as evidence of guilt, especially if you say it wrong, as is simply remaining silent. Finally, the people in here saying to, for example, just assent to a search in order to be on their ways are hopelessly naive about the frequency of evidence planting, the potential to be misheard, misremembered, or deliberately misquoted by cops looking to get a tidy resolution to whatever messy situation confronts them. Not all of them, but enough of them and often enough that I cringe at most of the advice in this thread, much of which you (Yes, you!) personally think is great. Buy the book. It's cheap, and an engaging quick read. Good luck to you all!

thatiscool 7y ago

something is wrong with the system if you need to be so paranoid with the policeman. it seems people are living under fear and police force in the U.S. can easily abuse their power and walk free. Does anyone still remember the tragedy of Debian founder Ian Murdock suicided in San Francisco? in EU or Asia, policeforce seems more approachable.

Polylactic_acid 7y ago
The police in Australia are far from perfect but they seem like saints compared to American police. I have interacted with them a few times and it has always been very reasonable.
- P_I_Staker 7y ago
  They're strip searching children, so I don't know that I'd hold them up as a shining example of excellent policing.
  - Polylactic_acid 7y ago
    Yes but at least they aren't shooting children. I know its a low bar to set but thats what people are discussing in this thread.
P_I_Staker 7y ago
We live in a police state. We've also greatly expanded what we consider criminal, and drastically upped the punishment. The USA has some serious soul searching to do regarding morality/punishment, and basically nothing is happening on that front.

luxuryballs 7y ago

Agree with most if this but not seeing any logic in telling an officer that you’ve got weapons.

Double_a_92 7y ago
Imagine you have your papers and a gun in the glovebox of your car... Opening and reaching into it maybe doens't look very safe.
- luxuryballs 7y ago
  This is a great additional tip, I keep my papers in a compartment on the center console rather than in the locked glovebox with the 1911 for exactly this reason.

xivzgrev 7y ago

Wow. This article (or other equivalent) needs to be taught in every high school.

vijaybritto 7y ago

The title should add [IN USA]. Also this article should contain two sections for the whites and the non whites

muddyb0y 7y ago

The real question here is: why is an attorney driving an Uber?

lancefisher 7y ago

Don’t let them in without a warrant, but perhaps don’t even open the door. A friend of mine had a noise complaint called in on him. They just didn’t open the door when the cop showed up. He eventually went away. Not sure how often it works, but I found it hilarious.

fg6hr 7y ago

My observation from past 10 years is that 10 years ago 1/2 cops were nice and 1/2 cops were harsh, but professional. These days 1/2 cops are nice and 1/2 cops seem to actively create troubles out of thin air. Each interaction with a mean cop was saved by what I'd call status illegibility: the cop wasn't sure whether I'm a rich connected trouble-maker or just look like one. Short conversations with some cops reminded me typical conversations with professional corporate sociopaths when you aren't sure whether the person you're talking to is a skillful sociopath who tries to get something on you or just a chatty dude. Long time ago, when I was young and naive, I got pulled over by a seemingly friendly cop who felt very chatty. I gave him way too much information because I didn't understand what was going on and gave a wrong answer to a request to search my car. What probably saved me that time was his next question about where I work. After my answer he promptly returned my DL and let me go.

turkthrower123 7y ago

Pray. Being stopped by American police can be a death sentence for anyone. I knew a programmer who was murdered by the same police he called to help him. His crime? Schizophrenia. https://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2005/09/09/38582.php https://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2005/09/09/38582.php

LyndsySimon 7y ago
Interesting. I know devs with similar stories - though obviously with slightly different outcomes.