5 ms·

Mortgages are not hard to discharge if the person wants to, however they are secured debt so if you discharge the debt you have to give up the asset. It should

by syshum 7y ago

Mortgages are not hard to discharge if the person wants to, however they are secured debt so if you discharge the debt you have to give up the asset. It should not be possible to discharge the debt AND keep the asset, that is recipe of disaster

freeone3000 7y ago
So if you go bankrupt with student loans, the government repossesses your degree?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- syshum 7y ago
  The government should not be in the loan business in the first place. Further a degree is not a hard asset thus can not be "repossessed" a degree is simply proof of knowledge (or rather that is what a degree should be, modern degree's that is not so clear) thus it would be and is today treated as unsecured debt for the purposes of bankruptcy
- teamspirit 7y ago
  What then is the value of: Education: University of Higher Eductaion, M.S. Computer Science, (repossessed) on a resume? I ask only half jokingly.
  - jefftk 7y ago
    The government could repossess your degree by making it illegal to tell people you have it. Since the vast majority of the value of the degree is as a signal to potential employers, repossessing would maybe kind of work? (Still half jokingly)
    - yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
      Nope, violates 1st amendment.
      - jefftk 7y ago
        I think there might still be a way to implement it, something like allowing the court to revoke or annul the degree? It's also possible that an explicit restriction on telling employers that you once had a degree would work, since we do have other cases where we restrict what people are allowed to ask and tell in job interview situations. Another possibility is that the court could ask you to promise not to disclose your degree in exchange for granting you bankruptcy relief. Nondisclosure agreements are a thing, so this seems like it's probably legal?
      - a1369209993 7y ago
        They already did that with the State Secrets Act (or whatever the American version is called) and nondisclosure agreements. (Just to be clear, all three of those are in fact human rights violations, I just don't think anyone who matters cares.)
      - skissane 7y ago
        Under Texas Penal Code 32.52(b)(1)(C), it is a misdemeanour to claim to have a degree (for purposes of employment/etc) if that degree has been revoked. So, if some law was to say that bankruptcy discharge of student loan resulted in degree revocation, and that law applied to you and you knew about it, then it would be a misdemeanour to use that degree in Texas. Does this violate the 1st Amendment? As far as I'm aware, that provision of the Texas Penal Code has never been struck down on First Amendment grounds. https://codes.findlaw.com/tx/penal-code/penal-sect-32-52.html https://codes.findlaw.com/tx/penal-code/penal-sect-32-52.htm...
        colejohnson66 7y ago
        Just because it’s never been struck down doesn’t mean it’s been tried. Maybe no one has challenged it?
        dragonwriter 7y ago
    - jefftk 7y ago
      Expanded this into a post after thinking about it more: https://www.jefftk.com/p/repossessing-degrees https://www.jefftk.com/p/repossessing-degrees
- ncallaway 7y ago
  > however they are secured debt so if you discharge the debt you have to give up the asset As the parent said, mortgages are secured debt. Education loans are _unsecured_ debt. The difference between secured and unsecured debt is whether exists an underlying asset or assets for the bank to repossess. So, no, your degree will not be repossessed.
pbhjpbhj 7y ago
So, during the bankruptcy take back all the material possessions, except those needed for basic needs of course (we're humans after all!), take back the material benefits accrued from the education .. oh wait, they're bankrupt, they don't have any: Either none were accrued or someone else has made off with them. When you repossess a house you can't take back the nice memories of living there either, nor take back the potential someone has from benefiting from that shelter. Maybe the owner raised children there, perhaps we should allow the bank to take possession of co-housed dependents in such situations ...

by syshum 7y ago

freeone3000 7y ago

So if you go bankrupt with student loans, the government repossesses your degree?

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
syshum 7y ago
The government should not be in the loan business in the first place. Further a degree is not a hard asset thus can not be "repossessed" a degree is simply proof of knowledge (or rather that is what a degree should be, modern degree's that is not so clear) thus it would be and is today treated as unsecured debt for the purposes of bankruptcy
teamspirit 7y ago
What then is the value of: Education: University of Higher Eductaion, M.S. Computer Science, (repossessed) on a resume? I ask only half jokingly.
- jefftk 7y ago
  The government could repossess your degree by making it illegal to tell people you have it. Since the vast majority of the value of the degree is as a signal to potential employers, repossessing would maybe kind of work? (Still half jokingly)
  - yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
    Nope, violates 1st amendment.
    - jefftk 7y ago
      I think there might still be a way to implement it, something like allowing the court to revoke or annul the degree? It's also possible that an explicit restriction on telling employers that you once had a degree would work, since we do have other cases where we restrict what people are allowed to ask and tell in job interview situations. Another possibility is that the court could ask you to promise not to disclose your degree in exchange for granting you bankruptcy relief. Nondisclosure agreements are a thing, so this seems like it's probably legal?
    - a1369209993 7y ago
      They already did that with the State Secrets Act (or whatever the American version is called) and nondisclosure agreements. (Just to be clear, all three of those are in fact human rights violations, I just don't think anyone who matters cares.)
    - skissane 7y ago
      Under Texas Penal Code 32.52(b)(1)(C), it is a misdemeanour to claim to have a degree (for purposes of employment/etc) if that degree has been revoked. So, if some law was to say that bankruptcy discharge of student loan resulted in degree revocation, and that law applied to you and you knew about it, then it would be a misdemeanour to use that degree in Texas. Does this violate the 1st Amendment? As far as I'm aware, that provision of the Texas Penal Code has never been struck down on First Amendment grounds. https://codes.findlaw.com/tx/penal-code/penal-sect-32-52.html https://codes.findlaw.com/tx/penal-code/penal-sect-32-52.htm...
      - colejohnson66 7y ago
        Just because it’s never been struck down doesn’t mean it’s been tried. Maybe no one has challenged it?
      - dragonwriter 7y ago
  - jefftk 7y ago
    Expanded this into a post after thinking about it more: https://www.jefftk.com/p/repossessing-degrees https://www.jefftk.com/p/repossessing-degrees
ncallaway 7y ago
> however they are secured debt so if you discharge the debt you have to give up the asset As the parent said, mortgages are secured debt. Education loans are _unsecured_ debt. The difference between secured and unsecured debt is whether exists an underlying asset or assets for the bank to repossess. So, no, your degree will not be repossessed.

pbhjpbhj 7y ago

So, during the bankruptcy take back all the material possessions, except those needed for basic needs of course (we're humans after all!), take back the material benefits accrued from the education .. oh wait, they're bankrupt, they don't have any: Either none were accrued or someone else has made off with them. When you repossess a house you can't take back the nice memories of living there either, nor take back the potential someone has from benefiting from that shelter. Maybe the owner raised children there, perhaps we should allow the bank to take possession of co-housed dependents in such situations ...