4 ms·

What region are you referring to? I’ve lived in the US my whole life and have never encountered an area where “you guys” could not be used in a gender neutral m

by nilkn 7y ago

What region are you referring to? I’ve lived in the US my whole life and have never encountered an area where “you guys” could not be used in a gender neutral manner.

DoreenMichele 7y ago
FWIW, I'm an American woman who thinks "guys" is masculine. I don't generally hassle people about such things, but I'm pretty darn sure there are people who are not me who think it is masculine and would hassle people about it.
- nilkn 7y ago
  “You guys”, not “guys”. If you still think that can only refer to men, that’s certainly the first time I’ve heard an American say that. Indeed, I hear this phrase from women as much as I do from men, to address audiences of any gender makeup. And I’m in the southern US.
  - DoreenMichele 7y ago
    Where I come from, the correct term would be "y'all" or "all y'all" which I have also seen arguments online about the correct usage and meaning. I used to routinely use y'all online in a forum where I was intentionally emphasizing my Southern identity to more clearly distinguish between singular "you" and plural "you." I've had a class in linguistics. I grew up in a bilingual home. I'm not uninformed about the fact that local colloquialisms exist, language is alive and evolving. I think of "guys" and "you guys" as both masculine. I don't generally hassle people about such things. Evidence that I don't generally hassle people about such things: https://witnesstodestruction.blogspot.com/p/it-seems-my-silence-was-heard.html?m=1 https://witnesstodestruction.blogspot.com/p/it-seems-my-sile...
    - nilkn 7y ago
      I’m not making any claims about whether you generally hassle anyone so I don’t need any evidence about that in either direction. Either way, you are the first person I’ve talked to who doesn’t think “you guys” can refer to an audience of multiple genders. That certainly contradicts the overwhelming majority of usages of the phrase I’ve seen in my life.
      - DoreenMichele 7y ago
        I'm aware there are people that use it that way. I've seen this discussion on the internet before. I am unlikely to do so, in part because of negative experiences from a very toxic forum where I was treated like absolute shit. Please note that I'm backing up someone else's claim about this being a phenomenon. I'm telling you they aren't making that up. There are Americans who view that as a masculine term. I'm actual living proof this is not a bullshit claim. Sorry you are having such a big problem accepting that.
        nilkn 7y ago
        It’s not that there are some people who use it “that way.” It’s the standard usage: https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/you_guys https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/you_guys No need to make this personal with your last sentence.
        DoreenMichele 7y ago
        I don't think that's "making this personal." It's not intended as some kind of personal attack. Someone other than me noted that this is a phenomenon in some parts of the US. I posted to support that assertion. You have made multiple comments telling me I'm wrong about this when my claim is "I, personally, fit the profile" and you keep citing general usage. I may be "wrong" by some metric or other to see it as masculine, but I'm living proof some Americans do, in fact, view it that way. You do appear to be having some trouble accepting that assertion, given that you basically are trying to tell me I'm wrong about my testimony about my opinion about the phrase, which really is quite baffling to me that anyone would try to tell me that.
seanmcdirmid 7y ago
The Deep South? They use gals as a replacement. It is gender neutral in much of the west where I live now, though a few will still take offense.
- nilkn 7y ago
  “You guys” can certainly be used in a gender-neutral way in the southern US. That’s where I live and I hear that all the time.
  - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
    Do you mean the mid south, west south or Deep South? There could be a huge difference between Texas, Atlanta, and Mississippi. The caps on Deep South isn’t an iOS auto correct error. I lived in Mississippi for four years and they definitely took offense in the small town I was living in. The size of the community might also be relevant. I’m not an ethnolinguist, so can’t really comment on why it is or isn’t.
    - nilkn 7y ago
      I have personal experience with Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, and Florida.
      - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
        https://cdn.mapmania.org/original/how_americans_address_a_group_of_two_or_more_people_65280.jpg https://cdn.mapmania.org/original/how_americans_address_a_gr... Take the map for what its worth, I guess. It doesn’t comment on what people think about the word itself, just how they don’t use it very much.
        nilkn 7y ago
        I'd absolutely buy that there are regional variations in how common those phrases are. The map appears to be spot on in that sense based on my own experience. I'm just wondering if there are areas where "you guys" can't be used to refer to arbitrary-gender-makeup groups (as opposed to areas where it's just less common than other phrases accomplishing the same purpose). I haven't personally encountered such an area, but I accept and acknowledge that you have. I do think this topic is complicated by the ease of conflating current usage (how is "you guys" used today?) with ideal usage (is this really a phrase whose usage we want to promote and accept in the future?). I personally have no problem making an effort to phase out "you guys." It's not something I feel attached to, and I can see that it carries unnecessary baggage.

by nilkn 7y ago

What region are you referring to? I’ve lived in the US my whole life and have never encountered an area where “you guys” could not be used in a gender neutral manner.

DoreenMichele 7y ago

FWIW, I'm an American woman who thinks "guys" is masculine. I don't generally hassle people about such things, but I'm pretty darn sure there are people who are not me who think it is masculine and would hassle people about it.

nilkn 7y ago
“You guys”, not “guys”. If you still think that can only refer to men, that’s certainly the first time I’ve heard an American say that. Indeed, I hear this phrase from women as much as I do from men, to address audiences of any gender makeup. And I’m in the southern US.
- DoreenMichele 7y ago
  Where I come from, the correct term would be "y'all" or "all y'all" which I have also seen arguments online about the correct usage and meaning. I used to routinely use y'all online in a forum where I was intentionally emphasizing my Southern identity to more clearly distinguish between singular "you" and plural "you." I've had a class in linguistics. I grew up in a bilingual home. I'm not uninformed about the fact that local colloquialisms exist, language is alive and evolving. I think of "guys" and "you guys" as both masculine. I don't generally hassle people about such things. Evidence that I don't generally hassle people about such things: https://witnesstodestruction.blogspot.com/p/it-seems-my-silence-was-heard.html?m=1 https://witnesstodestruction.blogspot.com/p/it-seems-my-sile...
  - nilkn 7y ago
    I’m not making any claims about whether you generally hassle anyone so I don’t need any evidence about that in either direction. Either way, you are the first person I’ve talked to who doesn’t think “you guys” can refer to an audience of multiple genders. That certainly contradicts the overwhelming majority of usages of the phrase I’ve seen in my life.
    - DoreenMichele 7y ago
      I'm aware there are people that use it that way. I've seen this discussion on the internet before. I am unlikely to do so, in part because of negative experiences from a very toxic forum where I was treated like absolute shit. Please note that I'm backing up someone else's claim about this being a phenomenon. I'm telling you they aren't making that up. There are Americans who view that as a masculine term. I'm actual living proof this is not a bullshit claim. Sorry you are having such a big problem accepting that.
      - nilkn 7y ago
        It’s not that there are some people who use it “that way.” It’s the standard usage: https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/you_guys https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/you_guys No need to make this personal with your last sentence.
        DoreenMichele 7y ago
        I don't think that's "making this personal." It's not intended as some kind of personal attack. Someone other than me noted that this is a phenomenon in some parts of the US. I posted to support that assertion. You have made multiple comments telling me I'm wrong about this when my claim is "I, personally, fit the profile" and you keep citing general usage. I may be "wrong" by some metric or other to see it as masculine, but I'm living proof some Americans do, in fact, view it that way. You do appear to be having some trouble accepting that assertion, given that you basically are trying to tell me I'm wrong about my testimony about my opinion about the phrase, which really is quite baffling to me that anyone would try to tell me that.

seanmcdirmid 7y ago

The Deep South? They use gals as a replacement. It is gender neutral in much of the west where I live now, though a few will still take offense.

nilkn 7y ago
“You guys” can certainly be used in a gender-neutral way in the southern US. That’s where I live and I hear that all the time.
- seanmcdirmid 7y ago
  Do you mean the mid south, west south or Deep South? There could be a huge difference between Texas, Atlanta, and Mississippi. The caps on Deep South isn’t an iOS auto correct error. I lived in Mississippi for four years and they definitely took offense in the small town I was living in. The size of the community might also be relevant. I’m not an ethnolinguist, so can’t really comment on why it is or isn’t.
  - nilkn 7y ago
    I have personal experience with Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, and Florida.
    - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
      https://cdn.mapmania.org/original/how_americans_address_a_group_of_two_or_more_people_65280.jpg https://cdn.mapmania.org/original/how_americans_address_a_gr... Take the map for what its worth, I guess. It doesn’t comment on what people think about the word itself, just how they don’t use it very much.
      - nilkn 7y ago
        I'd absolutely buy that there are regional variations in how common those phrases are. The map appears to be spot on in that sense based on my own experience. I'm just wondering if there are areas where "you guys" can't be used to refer to arbitrary-gender-makeup groups (as opposed to areas where it's just less common than other phrases accomplishing the same purpose). I haven't personally encountered such an area, but I accept and acknowledge that you have. I do think this topic is complicated by the ease of conflating current usage (how is "you guys" used today?) with ideal usage (is this really a phrase whose usage we want to promote and accept in the future?). I personally have no problem making an effort to phase out "you guys." It's not something I feel attached to, and I can see that it carries unnecessary baggage.