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> Most of these suggestions seem to rely on the notion that undergraduates are delicate. While I agree that we must be careful to ensure that all students feel

> Most of these suggestions seem to rely on the notion that undergraduates are delicate. While I agree that we must be careful to ensure that all students feel welcome and respected, we should be helping our students to become antifragile. So I will continue to use the BMI example, I will maintain high standards for grading, and I will continue to pursue cheating cases vigorously. I will continue to say “you guys” and to make occasional cultural references. In the case of pronouns, I have always made an effort to accommodate requests from transgender students, but I refuse to use words that are not part of the English language. What really stands out to me is how he addressed the honestly pretty tame feedback he got on his class. A whole committee was put together and came back with recommendations on some pretty minor things he could do to better foster a sense of inclusivity and his response was nah I'd rather not. I'm not at all surprised at the result. Regardless of what his article said, the reaction to it, or his actual credentials as an instructor he showed the administration very clearly with his actions that he has literally no interest in trying to make the department an inclusive environment. And that's ultimately the entire point. They are trying to make CS as accessible as possible and this guy is fighting them tooth and nail at every step because what...? I mean the last sentence is just a ridiculous take as a teacher. A) Yeet is now a word in the english dictionary. New words are created all the time and the definitions of existing ones change to match the context in which they are used in modern times. B) Making the pretty minimal effort, of referring to someone in the way in which they'd like to be addressed is literally such a low bar, that refusing to do so quite frankly makes you an asshole. C) He uses the word antifragile, which is not a universally recognized english word. It's a term coined by a professor in a book in 2012.

Thorentis 7y ago
The feedback might have been tame, but was not at all reasonable. Relaxing efforts to pursue cheating? Lowering grading standards? It is very clear that the committee looked at which demographics were not doing as well in his classes as they would like, and came up with some recommendations to change that. We are seeing a trend in academia, where your class/race/ethnicity/social group membership should mean more in terms of what is owed to you, than your academic merit. Women being given bonus points to enter STEM degrees at University of Sydney is one such insane example. I find it very disingenuous when people look at an article like this, think the points raised by the college/university aren't that bad, and then refuse to consider the underlying motives for the college to make these recommendations.
munmaek 7y ago
It’s not inclusive to force people to stop saying “you guys”, which is a midwestern thing. Different areas have a different words for the plural you, such as “you all” or “y’all” or “all y’all”. I grew up in Chicago and everyone said “you guys”, regardless of the group’s genders. I think it’s absurd the school would go after him for that. Also, for English, new verbs and nouns are constantly made. Not pronouns. [0] Also, the cheating thing is ridiculous, full stop. I’d have a hard time dealing with folks like that as well. [0]: https://www.thoughtco.com/what-is-closed-class-words-1689856 https://www.thoughtco.com/what-is-closed-class-words-1689856
tomlong 7y ago
I lost any and all sympathy I had when I got to the quoted section.. he seems very fragile himself, and not very good at handling some pretty reasonable criticism.. antifragile indeed.
- wayoutthere 7y ago
  In my experience, people complaining about fragility are usually projecting.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
thomaskcr 7y ago
I think he had the wrong reaction, I think he could have implemented some of the more reasonable suggestions easily, but some of that stuff is really nuts. "The addition of an indigenous land acknowledgement to the syllabus." I would have wtf'ed at too -- it's a CS class. If you mix in that stuff with reasonable suggestions like avoiding references that require cultural knowledge or just using different names in examples I can see how someone would just throw the whole thing out after getting exasperated with the whole process and some of the "best practices". The suggestions included some that just seemed like "make your class easier", I can see how a diversity panel telling him how to grade his class would be annoying. > A relaxation of grading on coding style. > Allowing students to work together in a group for part of their grade instead of requiring them to complete all graded work individually. > A reduction in the amount of effort expended pursuing cheating cases by 50 percent even though there has been no reduction in cheating cases. There were some that he easily could have done, like just buying some seminar for his TAs and using a different problem: > Training for TAs in inclusion and implicit bias. > Review of all course materials for inclusiveness. For instance, of a lecture that involves calculating body mass index (BMI) using guidelines from the National Institutes of Health, the report noted that it “seems insensitive to present students with a program that would print out that some of them are ‘obese’ while others are ‘normal.’” There's no reason not to make an effort to use more names in examples and even just a quick "I've always said you guys, I'm making an effort to say folks but old habits die hard" probably would have at least shown he cared enough to make people happy.
- hinkley 7y ago
  Working in groups and reduced emphasis on anti cheating seem ripe for entitled white boys to leverage more than everyone else. Am I missing something, or are those at odds with the rest of the suggestions? I suppose working while attending classes might make office hours difficult but study groups easier. What we can’t know is if he was summarizing for effect and he left out their rationale, or if these suggestions came to him this arbitrarily. Mostly I get a vibe that he’s decided to die on this hill and he’s being stubborn and on some level enjoying the “persecution”. We all do things that feed our own narrative and don’t really provide any other payoff. My self sabotage has never been this public.
dmatech 7y ago
To be fair, pronouns in English are considered a "closed class", while adjectives (like "antifragile") are considered an "open class". This has been true for centuries.
Thriptic 7y ago
I agree that many of them are very reasonable and he is just being stubborn. For example, switching the BMI example to another example to avoid public shaming, using a variety of names and references so that everyone feels represented, and using provided pronouns costs him nothing and makes other people feel included. That being said, some of the others are less...value adding? * A relaxation of grading on coding style - In the real world you will be expected to adhere to a prescribed coding style. Getting students used to this is not a bad thing. This is equivalent to docking points from students who refuse to learn how to use git. * Allowing students to work together in a group for part of their grade instead of requiring them to complete all graded work individually. - This is a request to make the curriculum easier and does not appear to be related to inclusion. * A reduction in the amount of effort expended pursuing cheating cases by 50 percent even though there has been no reduction in cheating cases. - This is a request to make the curriculum easier and does not appear to be related to inclusion. * The addition of an indigenous land acknowledgement to the syllabus. - This is far outside the scope of a CS course. * The use of gender-neutral names like Alex and Jun instead of Alice and Bob. - As long as you are using a variety of names, this seems redundant. * An avoidance of references that depend on cultural knowledge of sports, pop culture, theater, literature, or games. - Using these is meant to be engaging and many students like it. As long as you don't need prior knowledge of history or knowledge of the reference to solve the problem then I don't see what the issue is. * The replacement of phrases like “you guys” with “folks” or “y’all.” - "You guys" is universally understood to be gender neutral. Taking issue with this seems pedantic. * A declaration of instructors’ pronouns and a request for students’ pronoun preferences. - Asking for students' pronouns is good practice and the professor should use them if provided. It is unreasonable to demand that professors provide theirs. It should be understood that if pronouns are not explicitly stated then individuals wish to go by their biological pronouns.
- zozbot234 7y ago
  > Allowing students to work together in a group for part of their grade instead of requiring them to complete all graded work individually. This is a request to make the curriculum easier and does not appear to be related to inclusion. Out of all the suggestions that were made, this is the one that's perhaps most relevant to inclusion and getting more women to code, actually. It's well-known that women are on average more social than men, more open to working with people than things, and less approving of solitary activities like being a traditional lone "rockstar coder".
alexandercrohde 7y ago
That's all totally reasonable. However independent of that- One thing he said that sounded completely outrageous though was that the inclusivity committee asked "A reduction in the amount of effort expended pursuing cheating cases by 50 percent even though there has been no reduction in cheating cases." That's crossing a huge line in my opinion.
- josteink 7y ago
  It's about demographics. Whatever demographic is being caught cheating is probably also a "minority" demographic not exceeding in academia, making the school "look bad" for "not being inclusive enough". So for the school to be "more inclusive", more of that demographic needs to pass. And then we just have to stop catching them while cheating. This is typically the error where people force-optimize for the numbers asked alone, instead of thinking about what they can do to make those metrics appear naturally. And as usual the results are just bonkers.

Thorentis 7y ago

The feedback might have been tame, but was not at all reasonable. Relaxing efforts to pursue cheating? Lowering grading standards? It is very clear that the committee looked at which demographics were not doing as well in his classes as they would like, and came up with some recommendations to change that. We are seeing a trend in academia, where your class/race/ethnicity/social group membership should mean more in terms of what is owed to you, than your academic merit. Women being given bonus points to enter STEM degrees at University of Sydney is one such insane example. I find it very disingenuous when people look at an article like this, think the points raised by the college/university aren't that bad, and then refuse to consider the underlying motives for the college to make these recommendations.

munmaek 7y ago

It’s not inclusive to force people to stop saying “you guys”, which is a midwestern thing. Different areas have a different words for the plural you, such as “you all” or “y’all” or “all y’all”. I grew up in Chicago and everyone said “you guys”, regardless of the group’s genders. I think it’s absurd the school would go after him for that. Also, for English, new verbs and nouns are constantly made. Not pronouns. [0] Also, the cheating thing is ridiculous, full stop. I’d have a hard time dealing with folks like that as well. [0]: https://www.thoughtco.com/what-is-closed-class-words-1689856 https://www.thoughtco.com/what-is-closed-class-words-1689856

tomlong 7y ago

I lost any and all sympathy I had when I got to the quoted section.. he seems very fragile himself, and not very good at handling some pretty reasonable criticism.. antifragile indeed.

wayoutthere 7y ago
In my experience, people complaining about fragility are usually projecting.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

thomaskcr 7y ago

I think he had the wrong reaction, I think he could have implemented some of the more reasonable suggestions easily, but some of that stuff is really nuts. "The addition of an indigenous land acknowledgement to the syllabus." I would have wtf'ed at too -- it's a CS class. If you mix in that stuff with reasonable suggestions like avoiding references that require cultural knowledge or just using different names in examples I can see how someone would just throw the whole thing out after getting exasperated with the whole process and some of the "best practices". The suggestions included some that just seemed like "make your class easier", I can see how a diversity panel telling him how to grade his class would be annoying. > A relaxation of grading on coding style. > Allowing students to work together in a group for part of their grade instead of requiring them to complete all graded work individually. > A reduction in the amount of effort expended pursuing cheating cases by 50 percent even though there has been no reduction in cheating cases. There were some that he easily could have done, like just buying some seminar for his TAs and using a different problem: > Training for TAs in inclusion and implicit bias. > Review of all course materials for inclusiveness. For instance, of a lecture that involves calculating body mass index (BMI) using guidelines from the National Institutes of Health, the report noted that it “seems insensitive to present students with a program that would print out that some of them are ‘obese’ while others are ‘normal.’” There's no reason not to make an effort to use more names in examples and even just a quick "I've always said you guys, I'm making an effort to say folks but old habits die hard" probably would have at least shown he cared enough to make people happy.

hinkley 7y ago
Working in groups and reduced emphasis on anti cheating seem ripe for entitled white boys to leverage more than everyone else. Am I missing something, or are those at odds with the rest of the suggestions? I suppose working while attending classes might make office hours difficult but study groups easier. What we can’t know is if he was summarizing for effect and he left out their rationale, or if these suggestions came to him this arbitrarily. Mostly I get a vibe that he’s decided to die on this hill and he’s being stubborn and on some level enjoying the “persecution”. We all do things that feed our own narrative and don’t really provide any other payoff. My self sabotage has never been this public.

dmatech 7y ago

To be fair, pronouns in English are considered a "closed class", while adjectives (like "antifragile") are considered an "open class". This has been true for centuries.

Thriptic 7y ago

I agree that many of them are very reasonable and he is just being stubborn. For example, switching the BMI example to another example to avoid public shaming, using a variety of names and references so that everyone feels represented, and using provided pronouns costs him nothing and makes other people feel included. That being said, some of the others are less...value adding? * A relaxation of grading on coding style - In the real world you will be expected to adhere to a prescribed coding style. Getting students used to this is not a bad thing. This is equivalent to docking points from students who refuse to learn how to use git. * Allowing students to work together in a group for part of their grade instead of requiring them to complete all graded work individually. - This is a request to make the curriculum easier and does not appear to be related to inclusion. * A reduction in the amount of effort expended pursuing cheating cases by 50 percent even though there has been no reduction in cheating cases. - This is a request to make the curriculum easier and does not appear to be related to inclusion. * The addition of an indigenous land acknowledgement to the syllabus. - This is far outside the scope of a CS course. * The use of gender-neutral names like Alex and Jun instead of Alice and Bob. - As long as you are using a variety of names, this seems redundant. * An avoidance of references that depend on cultural knowledge of sports, pop culture, theater, literature, or games. - Using these is meant to be engaging and many students like it. As long as you don't need prior knowledge of history or knowledge of the reference to solve the problem then I don't see what the issue is. * The replacement of phrases like “you guys” with “folks” or “y’all.” - "You guys" is universally understood to be gender neutral. Taking issue with this seems pedantic. * A declaration of instructors’ pronouns and a request for students’ pronoun preferences. - Asking for students' pronouns is good practice and the professor should use them if provided. It is unreasonable to demand that professors provide theirs. It should be understood that if pronouns are not explicitly stated then individuals wish to go by their biological pronouns.

zozbot234 7y ago
> Allowing students to work together in a group for part of their grade instead of requiring them to complete all graded work individually. This is a request to make the curriculum easier and does not appear to be related to inclusion. Out of all the suggestions that were made, this is the one that's perhaps most relevant to inclusion and getting more women to code, actually. It's well-known that women are on average more social than men, more open to working with people than things, and less approving of solitary activities like being a traditional lone "rockstar coder".

alexandercrohde 7y ago

That's all totally reasonable. However independent of that- One thing he said that sounded completely outrageous though was that the inclusivity committee asked "A reduction in the amount of effort expended pursuing cheating cases by 50 percent even though there has been no reduction in cheating cases." That's crossing a huge line in my opinion.

josteink 7y ago
It's about demographics. Whatever demographic is being caught cheating is probably also a "minority" demographic not exceeding in academia, making the school "look bad" for "not being inclusive enough". So for the school to be "more inclusive", more of that demographic needs to pass. And then we just have to stop catching them while cheating. This is typically the error where people force-optimize for the numbers asked alone, instead of thinking about what they can do to make those metrics appear naturally. And as usual the results are just bonkers.