5 ms·

Prostitution needs to be legal

by mdni007 7y ago

wyldfire 7y ago
Sure, but that would not solve this problem. It's an unhealthy community.
- brighton36 7y ago
  I think it would uncelibate them, at least.
  - setpatchaddress 7y ago
    It would not — it’s not how the mindset works
  - aiphex 7y ago
    Celibacy is just one of their many problems. And it's really more a consequence of their other problems, mainly emotional immaturity and anti-social behavior. Also I don't think sex workers should have to deal with incels. Sex workers are people too, and they deserve to be shown a basic amount of respect by their clients, just like the rest of us.
    - brigandish 7y ago
      Isn't it up to sex workers who they wish to deal with? I'm not sure why you're assuming that incels wouldn't show them respect, given a legal context (because the whole point of making it legal is that it protects sex workers better and implies respect).
      - wpietri 7y ago
        Because incel culture oozes with misogyny. Look at who they've literally canonized, for example: https://jezebel.com/saint-elliot-rodger-and-the-incels-who-canonize-him-1825567815 https://jezebel.com/saint-elliot-rodger-and-the-incels-who-c...
  - wyldfire 7y ago
    It wouldn't necessarily. Is the only thing keeping them from using prostitutes the fact that it's illegal? But say it did: would it reduce their propensity to violence?
  - Buldak 7y ago
    I'm not sure that's really their problem. My impression that is that incels are really aggrieved about lack of status, not lack of sex. Getting sex by paying for it doesn't solve that.
    - true_religion 7y ago
      It’s kind of how Japan solves the situation. Compensated dating let’s professional men and women simply have someone to hangout with, as well as have sex with.
  - WAHa_06x36 7y ago
    They are not very approving of prostitution, so that is unlikely. Don't take the name they have selected for themselves at face value.
dx87 7y ago
It's not that simple. Legalizing prostitution leads to increased human trafficking because the demand exceeds the supply. https://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ei/rls/38790.htm https://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ei/rls/38790.htm
- jasonjayr 7y ago
  Legalize and regulate. Don't let it be a free for all.
arthurcolle 7y ago
Once the majority of boomers start to shuffle off their mortal coils, I suspect many social issues that are perceived as "divisive" at present will immediately become accepted, and things like this will just come to pass. Drug legalization, sex work, perhaps gambling & sports betting, etc. However, I could see holdouts if some subsegment of the post-boomer generations continue to hold attitudes that "vice industries" are immoral, which is fair. I imagine that the later generations will just adopt an "I don't care, let people do what they want" attitude.
- ses1984 7y ago
  I'm guessing you're pretty young, late twenties at the latest.
  - arthurcolle 7y ago
    You're absolutely right, I'm 27 - turning 28 in February. Do you care to comment on what gave you this impression, and, more specifically, why you feel it has any relevance on what I wrote? I understand that I made a pretty broad statement, but anecdotally, there are so many different instances of boomers denigrating choices of later generations across many different buckets of choices - social, technological, moral, cultural, political, psycho-sexual; and as I've lived my life, we've seen rapid chances in societal behaviors that just make me feel that as every successive generation comes into existence, you just get that bit-flip for that dimension of the 'collective consciousness' (not woo-woo collective consciousness, but just the aggregated set of behaviors and interactions manifested by the people that exist today, that came to pass based on the pre-existing cc from their parents and those that influenced them, etc). Psychologically, it's funny, because there is this commonly cited concept of 'teenage/adolescent rebellion' where, despite the love and adoration you feel for your parents, there develops a kind of rift in response to the rules imposed vs. what you immediately want to do/desire to explore the world without the parental control structure that was imposed previously. Perhaps the generational shifts that are seen are a consequence of this - maybe not, I'm just thinking out loud here. But yeah it is an interesting topic. Care to comment further on what gave you this impression? I'm intrigued.
The_rationalist 7y ago
Honestly, technologies like https://www.fleshlight.com/ https://www.fleshlight.com/ have mostly obsoleted prostitution. Being far cheaper and more pleasurable. But this is not an alternative for affection. I do believe there is a big market for renting Affection. There is also a market for renting optimal friendships.
- wpietri 7y ago
  I'm not sure why this is getting downvoted. The incels claim their problem is not getting any. But we live in a golden age for porn and sex toys. They can get off if they want. What they instead want is either companionship and affection (which they clearly don't have or they wouldn't be hanging around in incel forums) or having a woman as quasi-property to serve them and enhance their social standing (the status of most women in quite a lot of history). There are reasons they can't get those things, of course. But rather than face them, they've built up a toxic shared ideology to explain why it is never their fault. They're not the only group that has done this, [1] but they're definitely one of the most dangerous. [1] For a fascinating look at what abusive parents tell themselves when their children have finally had enough, I recommend this article series on "Estranged Parent" forums: http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/index.html http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/index.html
  - memling 7y ago
    > The incels claim their problem is not getting any. But we live in a golden age for porn and sex toys. They can get off if they want. This is why legalizing sex work and pornography is no solution and indeed may very well worsen the problem. Turning women into objects to be bought and/or rented, consumed, and owned doesn't help matters. (Of course sex work and pornography are not the only offenders in this regard: I don't suppose most of us would sanction religious ownership of women. It's a different face on the same problem.)
e12e 7y ago
Buying a friend isn't the same as making a friend.
- memling 7y ago
  and playmates are not playthings
wpietri 7y ago
True, but that's a wrong answer here. Their problem isn't lack of orgasm; it's maladaptation and misogyny. There's no reason sex workers should have to deal with these guys either.

Prostitution needs to be legal

wyldfire 7y ago

Sure, but that would not solve this problem. It's an unhealthy community.

brighton36 7y ago
I think it would uncelibate them, at least.
- setpatchaddress 7y ago
  It would not — it’s not how the mindset works
- aiphex 7y ago
  Celibacy is just one of their many problems. And it's really more a consequence of their other problems, mainly emotional immaturity and anti-social behavior. Also I don't think sex workers should have to deal with incels. Sex workers are people too, and they deserve to be shown a basic amount of respect by their clients, just like the rest of us.
  - brigandish 7y ago
    Isn't it up to sex workers who they wish to deal with? I'm not sure why you're assuming that incels wouldn't show them respect, given a legal context (because the whole point of making it legal is that it protects sex workers better and implies respect).
    - wpietri 7y ago
      Because incel culture oozes with misogyny. Look at who they've literally canonized, for example: https://jezebel.com/saint-elliot-rodger-and-the-incels-who-canonize-him-1825567815 https://jezebel.com/saint-elliot-rodger-and-the-incels-who-c...
- wyldfire 7y ago
  It wouldn't necessarily. Is the only thing keeping them from using prostitutes the fact that it's illegal? But say it did: would it reduce their propensity to violence?
- Buldak 7y ago
  I'm not sure that's really their problem. My impression that is that incels are really aggrieved about lack of status, not lack of sex. Getting sex by paying for it doesn't solve that.
  - true_religion 7y ago
    It’s kind of how Japan solves the situation. Compensated dating let’s professional men and women simply have someone to hangout with, as well as have sex with.
- WAHa_06x36 7y ago
  They are not very approving of prostitution, so that is unlikely. Don't take the name they have selected for themselves at face value.

dx87 7y ago

It's not that simple. Legalizing prostitution leads to increased human trafficking because the demand exceeds the supply. https://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ei/rls/38790.htm https://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ei/rls/38790.htm

jasonjayr 7y ago
Legalize and regulate. Don't let it be a free for all.

arthurcolle 7y ago

Once the majority of boomers start to shuffle off their mortal coils, I suspect many social issues that are perceived as "divisive" at present will immediately become accepted, and things like this will just come to pass. Drug legalization, sex work, perhaps gambling & sports betting, etc. However, I could see holdouts if some subsegment of the post-boomer generations continue to hold attitudes that "vice industries" are immoral, which is fair. I imagine that the later generations will just adopt an "I don't care, let people do what they want" attitude.

ses1984 7y ago
I'm guessing you're pretty young, late twenties at the latest.
- arthurcolle 7y ago
  You're absolutely right, I'm 27 - turning 28 in February. Do you care to comment on what gave you this impression, and, more specifically, why you feel it has any relevance on what I wrote? I understand that I made a pretty broad statement, but anecdotally, there are so many different instances of boomers denigrating choices of later generations across many different buckets of choices - social, technological, moral, cultural, political, psycho-sexual; and as I've lived my life, we've seen rapid chances in societal behaviors that just make me feel that as every successive generation comes into existence, you just get that bit-flip for that dimension of the 'collective consciousness' (not woo-woo collective consciousness, but just the aggregated set of behaviors and interactions manifested by the people that exist today, that came to pass based on the pre-existing cc from their parents and those that influenced them, etc). Psychologically, it's funny, because there is this commonly cited concept of 'teenage/adolescent rebellion' where, despite the love and adoration you feel for your parents, there develops a kind of rift in response to the rules imposed vs. what you immediately want to do/desire to explore the world without the parental control structure that was imposed previously. Perhaps the generational shifts that are seen are a consequence of this - maybe not, I'm just thinking out loud here. But yeah it is an interesting topic. Care to comment further on what gave you this impression? I'm intrigued.

The_rationalist 7y ago

Honestly, technologies like https://www.fleshlight.com/ https://www.fleshlight.com/ have mostly obsoleted prostitution. Being far cheaper and more pleasurable. But this is not an alternative for affection. I do believe there is a big market for renting Affection. There is also a market for renting optimal friendships.

wpietri 7y ago
I'm not sure why this is getting downvoted. The incels claim their problem is not getting any. But we live in a golden age for porn and sex toys. They can get off if they want. What they instead want is either companionship and affection (which they clearly don't have or they wouldn't be hanging around in incel forums) or having a woman as quasi-property to serve them and enhance their social standing (the status of most women in quite a lot of history). There are reasons they can't get those things, of course. But rather than face them, they've built up a toxic shared ideology to explain why it is never their fault. They're not the only group that has done this, [1] but they're definitely one of the most dangerous. [1] For a fascinating look at what abusive parents tell themselves when their children have finally had enough, I recommend this article series on "Estranged Parent" forums: http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/index.html http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/index.html
- memling 7y ago
  > The incels claim their problem is not getting any. But we live in a golden age for porn and sex toys. They can get off if they want. This is why legalizing sex work and pornography is no solution and indeed may very well worsen the problem. Turning women into objects to be bought and/or rented, consumed, and owned doesn't help matters. (Of course sex work and pornography are not the only offenders in this regard: I don't suppose most of us would sanction religious ownership of women. It's a different face on the same problem.)

e12e 7y ago

Buying a friend isn't the same as making a friend.

memling 7y ago
and playmates are not playthings

wpietri 7y ago

True, but that's a wrong answer here. Their problem isn't lack of orgasm; it's maladaptation and misogyny. There's no reason sex workers should have to deal with these guys either.