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I am an Uber Driver. I have been wanting changes like this ever since I started driving. I saw people asking, 'how does this make drivers less employee like?' I

I am an Uber Driver. I have been wanting changes like this ever since I started driving. I saw people asking, 'how does this make drivers less employee like?' I'll tell you this. It makes us feel less like employees when we actually have enough information to choose whether or not we want to take a ride. Now we will be able to see the estimated fare before we take a specific ride. There will be no more driving 20 minutes to a ride only to discover that it will be a half mile ride that wastes another twenty minutes at a convenience store netting us $3 for 40 minutes of our time. I will simply skip any ride like that. We feel less like employees and more like the contractors we are supposed to be when we know why Uber gets a certain percentage of the fare. I wholeheartedly agree with the changes Uber is making.

yoavm 7y ago
I don't really understand. It sounds great that the drivers would have enough information to decide whether to take a ride or not, but what does this have to do with stopping upfront pricing? In my ideal world, the driver knows everything about the proposed ride, and the rider knows the exact cost of it. Why is that not possible?
- blendergeek 7y ago
  The change to variable priced rides is because the 'cut' of the fare that Uber takes has been standardized to 25% while driver pay remains based on time and mileage. Giving drivers information about upcoming rides is a separate change.
  - e12e 7y ago
    How does that work? If a driver is always paid x/minute/mile (total X), customer always pays Y dollars as made up by Uber. Uber takes U, 25% of Y, pays the driver X, where does the rest go if Y-U-X > 0? How can this ever work without Uber sometimes taking a loss?
- analyst74 7y ago
  Variable payout means some form of fare bidding on driver side, as drivers can reject rides that are too low. On top of that, they are capping their commission to 25%, meaning that they can't use more profitable rides to offset losses from less profitable ones. Those two factors combined, means Uber cannot offer fixed pricing upfront without incurring loss.
  - Broken_Hippo 7y ago
    Can one not simply show the driver the price and let them reject if too low? I don't think variable payout is the thing that lets drivers see the price and reject. Besides, if too many drivers are rejecting rides because of pricing, it would allow Uber to set higher minimum pricing and/or wait times. Variable pricing also doesn't mean the second - it simply limits the amount they take from it. They still have tools like minimum pricing. I'd even say minimum pricing would be more beneficial to drivers and wouldn't seem unreasonable to customers (of course, they might just choose to walk short distances).
    - Faark 7y ago
      > of course, they might just choose to walk short distances Walk or choose a competing service. Both seem hardly acceptable, if you want to be the default go-to option to capture the market.
  - e12e 7y ago
    > On top of that, they are capping their commission to 25%, meaning that they can't use more profitable rides to offset losses from less profitable ones. What? Uber is getting payed for a transaction. How is 25% of a hundred dollar ride not more than 25% off a three dollar ride? Uber costs are running the service - if drivers truly are contractors, then payment to drivers isn't a cost for uber?
- petre 7y ago
  Because the driver doesn't know about unforseen factors such as traffic that change in real time during the ride to the pickup point. We do not live in an ideal world.
  - mantap 7y ago
    Uber didn't invent upfront pricing. If you pass the cost of traffic onto the customer then drivers will drive in traffic on purpose and rinse the riders.
    - petre 7y ago
      So you give them a zero star rating and move on.
      - mantap 7y ago
        That might make you feel better but it's not going to get you to your destination faster.
        matt-attack 7y ago
        Or get your wasted money back.
smsm42 7y ago
I had no idea Uber drivers can't see the destination before taking rides. You as a passenger certainly commit to the target before you order, so I thought the driver can see it too. Certainly makes sense to me for it to be this way, especially given it's not supposed to be employment relationship. If we're to agree with the driver on a contract, and Uber is just facilitating, then both sides of the contract should have full information about what the contract is about.
- stormbrew 7y ago
  This sounds great until you get redlining.
  - smsm42 7y ago
    Redlining is pretty easy to see in the data - Uber records everything. And, of course, by-source redlining is already possible - so hiding destination doesn't really solve it. And if Uber wanted, they could use the data they have to solve it. OTOH, as a passenger, if the provider feels they are not comfortable driving me somewhere - do I really have the right to force them? I am not really much into forcing people to work for me if they don't want to do it. Would you as a services provider want to work in the area you don't feel safe in? I wouldn't.
    - harshalizee 7y ago
      I've used Uber in various countries over the years and redlining is a huge problem they had to tackle. It was very common for drivers in Asia to call up a customer and ask for their destination and force them to cancel if they didn't feel like it. If you didn't, they report you as no show which would auto charge you and getting reimbursed was a hassle. Fortunately, Uber shut that down pretty hard. Contractor or not, if a driver agreed to drive for Uber, then they tacitly agreed to drive to any destination in their set range. I think that's fair.
      - IanCal 7y ago
        In the UK at least that's one of the major differences between employees/workers/self employed. If I'm an employee I'd have to take the work offered, but if you're self employeed you should be free to decline work. It's a spectrum trading rights of the employee for freedoms. If Uber don't want to take on the role of employer, they aren't allowed as much control over how tasks are completed or what tasks are accepted.
jimmaswell 7y ago
So now people not in a city center will never get rides. Wonderful outcome, very progressive.
- TACIXAT 7y ago
  This is like when people yell at the customer service rep about a company policy. They're a driver, take the sass to Uber.
  - hug 7y ago
    The guy that your parent post is responding to us the guy responsible for refusing rides, in this instance, not Uber. The point is with this change it is no longer like “complaining to the customer service rep” it is now a whole lot more like “complaining to the independent contractor that his policy is exclusionary”, despite the fact that his contracting agency clearly wishes it weren’t, which is why they hid that information from the ‘contractor’ in the first place.
    - TACIXAT 7y ago
      Ah yes, you're right. The minimum wage worker should continue subsidizing your travel. This injustice to the tech elite will not stand. Maybe my analogy was bad, maybe you should take it up with California rather than this random driver expressing their opinion.
      - hug 7y ago
        Or how about instead of eroding the user experience to allow Uber to continue to take advantage of the fiction of the drivers being "independent contractors", the state does what it should and enforce minimum conditions, including a minimum wage?
- mcntsh 7y ago
  Why, because they're too short? Why not walk?

yoavm 7y ago

I don't really understand. It sounds great that the drivers would have enough information to decide whether to take a ride or not, but what does this have to do with stopping upfront pricing? In my ideal world, the driver knows everything about the proposed ride, and the rider knows the exact cost of it. Why is that not possible?

blendergeek 7y ago
The change to variable priced rides is because the 'cut' of the fare that Uber takes has been standardized to 25% while driver pay remains based on time and mileage. Giving drivers information about upcoming rides is a separate change.
- e12e 7y ago
  How does that work? If a driver is always paid x/minute/mile (total X), customer always pays Y dollars as made up by Uber. Uber takes U, 25% of Y, pays the driver X, where does the rest go if Y-U-X > 0? How can this ever work without Uber sometimes taking a loss?
analyst74 7y ago
Variable payout means some form of fare bidding on driver side, as drivers can reject rides that are too low. On top of that, they are capping their commission to 25%, meaning that they can't use more profitable rides to offset losses from less profitable ones. Those two factors combined, means Uber cannot offer fixed pricing upfront without incurring loss.
- Broken_Hippo 7y ago
  Can one not simply show the driver the price and let them reject if too low? I don't think variable payout is the thing that lets drivers see the price and reject. Besides, if too many drivers are rejecting rides because of pricing, it would allow Uber to set higher minimum pricing and/or wait times. Variable pricing also doesn't mean the second - it simply limits the amount they take from it. They still have tools like minimum pricing. I'd even say minimum pricing would be more beneficial to drivers and wouldn't seem unreasonable to customers (of course, they might just choose to walk short distances).
  - Faark 7y ago
    > of course, they might just choose to walk short distances Walk or choose a competing service. Both seem hardly acceptable, if you want to be the default go-to option to capture the market.
- e12e 7y ago
  > On top of that, they are capping their commission to 25%, meaning that they can't use more profitable rides to offset losses from less profitable ones. What? Uber is getting payed for a transaction. How is 25% of a hundred dollar ride not more than 25% off a three dollar ride? Uber costs are running the service - if drivers truly are contractors, then payment to drivers isn't a cost for uber?
petre 7y ago
Because the driver doesn't know about unforseen factors such as traffic that change in real time during the ride to the pickup point. We do not live in an ideal world.
- mantap 7y ago
  Uber didn't invent upfront pricing. If you pass the cost of traffic onto the customer then drivers will drive in traffic on purpose and rinse the riders.
  - petre 7y ago
    So you give them a zero star rating and move on.
    - mantap 7y ago
      That might make you feel better but it's not going to get you to your destination faster.
      - matt-attack 7y ago
        Or get your wasted money back.

smsm42 7y ago

I had no idea Uber drivers can't see the destination before taking rides. You as a passenger certainly commit to the target before you order, so I thought the driver can see it too. Certainly makes sense to me for it to be this way, especially given it's not supposed to be employment relationship. If we're to agree with the driver on a contract, and Uber is just facilitating, then both sides of the contract should have full information about what the contract is about.

stormbrew 7y ago
This sounds great until you get redlining.
- smsm42 7y ago
  Redlining is pretty easy to see in the data - Uber records everything. And, of course, by-source redlining is already possible - so hiding destination doesn't really solve it. And if Uber wanted, they could use the data they have to solve it. OTOH, as a passenger, if the provider feels they are not comfortable driving me somewhere - do I really have the right to force them? I am not really much into forcing people to work for me if they don't want to do it. Would you as a services provider want to work in the area you don't feel safe in? I wouldn't.
  - harshalizee 7y ago
    I've used Uber in various countries over the years and redlining is a huge problem they had to tackle. It was very common for drivers in Asia to call up a customer and ask for their destination and force them to cancel if they didn't feel like it. If you didn't, they report you as no show which would auto charge you and getting reimbursed was a hassle. Fortunately, Uber shut that down pretty hard. Contractor or not, if a driver agreed to drive for Uber, then they tacitly agreed to drive to any destination in their set range. I think that's fair.
    - IanCal 7y ago
      In the UK at least that's one of the major differences between employees/workers/self employed. If I'm an employee I'd have to take the work offered, but if you're self employeed you should be free to decline work. It's a spectrum trading rights of the employee for freedoms. If Uber don't want to take on the role of employer, they aren't allowed as much control over how tasks are completed or what tasks are accepted.

jimmaswell 7y ago

So now people not in a city center will never get rides. Wonderful outcome, very progressive.

TACIXAT 7y ago
This is like when people yell at the customer service rep about a company policy. They're a driver, take the sass to Uber.
- hug 7y ago
  The guy that your parent post is responding to us the guy responsible for refusing rides, in this instance, not Uber. The point is with this change it is no longer like “complaining to the customer service rep” it is now a whole lot more like “complaining to the independent contractor that his policy is exclusionary”, despite the fact that his contracting agency clearly wishes it weren’t, which is why they hid that information from the ‘contractor’ in the first place.
  - TACIXAT 7y ago
    Ah yes, you're right. The minimum wage worker should continue subsidizing your travel. This injustice to the tech elite will not stand. Maybe my analogy was bad, maybe you should take it up with California rather than this random driver expressing their opinion.
    - hug 7y ago
      Or how about instead of eroding the user experience to allow Uber to continue to take advantage of the fiction of the drivers being "independent contractors", the state does what it should and enforce minimum conditions, including a minimum wage?
mcntsh 7y ago
Why, because they're too short? Why not walk?