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Other commenters may be dismissing this article as obvious, but silicon valley does have a problem, particularly in young, hip startups. These companies want to

Other commenters may be dismissing this article as obvious, but silicon valley does have a problem, particularly in young, hip startups. These companies want to hire young, hip people, and when products being produced are very vague with no clear market, then things like image matter a lot. Juicero, comes to mind. That's fine, you don't have to work there. However, as you get older, develop wrinkles and grey hair, that appearance of being older far outweighs your experience in initial impressions that you make. I've personally been a software engineer since 1995, quite a while now. My hair is grey, my face has wrinkles, and I'm an expert in several domains. When I go interview for a new job, it's typically by people younger and less experienced than me, since I'm definitely past the median age in this industry. I get asked questions like, "do you feel you still have relevant knowledge", or "we do things differently than in your day", or "do you think you can work in a fast paced environment", etc. Tech is arrogant and judgmental and image matters a lot. I can understand how people might resort to plastic surgery to buy themselves a few non-judgmental years.

j7ake 7y ago
Sounds like an opportunity for start ups to pick up undervalues talent through some “moneyball “ approach
- 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
  Good engineers are smart enough not to work at “hip” places unless it comes with a hip paycheck as well.
thrav 7y ago
Not only do they only want to hire those types, but I've been in plenty of rooms where the stereotypical young engineer outright refuses to acknowledge the older people in the room, as if they're beneath him/her. They have no respect for that person's opinion, and therefore show zero respect to that person. We've all been in rooms where someone misses the point, or says something that proves they're not keeping up with the conversation -- it happens. What's unique about people in the bay is how unforgiving and judgmental they can be about those errors, and it's only heightened if the person is above a certain age.
- oppositelock 7y ago
  Yes, and this happens to women too. For those among us who are engineers, imagine your typical design review or technical meeting. When your average, male engineer who is young enough presents an idea, he is generally given the benefit of the doubt. An older engineer, or a female engineer, is not given the benefit of the doubt and must overcome an additional level of skepticism before their ideas are accepted. Having done this for a while, I've seen a lot of this. I've worked at two of the FAANG companies, and it was particularly bad there. Things actually seemed more egalitarian in the 90's, I don't think we're making progress in this area.
anon9001 7y ago
I think this cuts both ways. I'm getting older, but I get along really well with the fresh meat. What works for me is to come across as an OG hacker and stay up to date on whatever the hot tech is. I'm also as immature as ever and have a pretty good command of dank memes, which I think helps more than people want to admit. I'll follow the culture wherever it goes, the same as I have since I was a teenager. I just always try to expose myself to everything so I know what's going on, from 4chan to reddit to HN to NPR to Fox News. IMO cultural awareness is the key to appearing "young", even if your physical appearance is older.
- oppositelock 7y ago
  The other way experience helps is that you don't really need to interview at unknown places if you want to work somewhere. Over time, you've built up a professional network, and you can generally switch jobs via that network, instead of walking in the front door. Having a deep specialty in something allows you to work with other such specialists.
- sharadov 7y ago
  Am similar to you in a lot of ways, you gotta be the cool kid and in the know. I know too many friends who've gone the other way, always dissing Millenials and have grown prematurely old.
- ASalazarMX 7y ago
  TL;DR "Hello, fellow kids!" I'm sorry, if this works for you, more power to you. I agree that you have to make an effort to keep up with the field, but keeping up with the teen culture on top of that would take a significant toll in my sanity.
- nojvek 7y ago
  I past 30 now. Most of my friends are managers but I love building things and chose to be an IC. I think tech is very fast paced. You gotta constantly be learning. Terraform, k8s, docker, rust, js frameworks, other language paradigms, deeplearning etc It’s a lot to learn on your own. Places you interview may ask “have you used React / Some X tool”, the best response you can give is “yes, I’ve dabbled myself and built X prototype”. Or for core things “yes, I’ve had my fair share of experiences and contributed Y to their open source repos”
ncr100 7y ago
> "do you feel you still have relevant knowledge", or "we do things differently than in your day", or "do you think you can work in a fast paced environment", This is illegal age discrimination, in my opinion. Consider suing them.
- oppositelock 7y ago
  Suing is expensive, and time consuming, and stressful. It's best to move on to someplace without their attitude problem.

j7ake 7y ago

Sounds like an opportunity for start ups to pick up undervalues talent through some “moneyball “ approach

3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
Good engineers are smart enough not to work at “hip” places unless it comes with a hip paycheck as well.

thrav 7y ago

Not only do they only want to hire those types, but I've been in plenty of rooms where the stereotypical young engineer outright refuses to acknowledge the older people in the room, as if they're beneath him/her. They have no respect for that person's opinion, and therefore show zero respect to that person. We've all been in rooms where someone misses the point, or says something that proves they're not keeping up with the conversation -- it happens. What's unique about people in the bay is how unforgiving and judgmental they can be about those errors, and it's only heightened if the person is above a certain age.

oppositelock 7y ago
Yes, and this happens to women too. For those among us who are engineers, imagine your typical design review or technical meeting. When your average, male engineer who is young enough presents an idea, he is generally given the benefit of the doubt. An older engineer, or a female engineer, is not given the benefit of the doubt and must overcome an additional level of skepticism before their ideas are accepted. Having done this for a while, I've seen a lot of this. I've worked at two of the FAANG companies, and it was particularly bad there. Things actually seemed more egalitarian in the 90's, I don't think we're making progress in this area.

anon9001 7y ago

I think this cuts both ways. I'm getting older, but I get along really well with the fresh meat. What works for me is to come across as an OG hacker and stay up to date on whatever the hot tech is. I'm also as immature as ever and have a pretty good command of dank memes, which I think helps more than people want to admit. I'll follow the culture wherever it goes, the same as I have since I was a teenager. I just always try to expose myself to everything so I know what's going on, from 4chan to reddit to HN to NPR to Fox News. IMO cultural awareness is the key to appearing "young", even if your physical appearance is older.

oppositelock 7y ago
The other way experience helps is that you don't really need to interview at unknown places if you want to work somewhere. Over time, you've built up a professional network, and you can generally switch jobs via that network, instead of walking in the front door. Having a deep specialty in something allows you to work with other such specialists.
sharadov 7y ago
Am similar to you in a lot of ways, you gotta be the cool kid and in the know. I know too many friends who've gone the other way, always dissing Millenials and have grown prematurely old.
ASalazarMX 7y ago
TL;DR "Hello, fellow kids!" I'm sorry, if this works for you, more power to you. I agree that you have to make an effort to keep up with the field, but keeping up with the teen culture on top of that would take a significant toll in my sanity.
nojvek 7y ago
I past 30 now. Most of my friends are managers but I love building things and chose to be an IC. I think tech is very fast paced. You gotta constantly be learning. Terraform, k8s, docker, rust, js frameworks, other language paradigms, deeplearning etc It’s a lot to learn on your own. Places you interview may ask “have you used React / Some X tool”, the best response you can give is “yes, I’ve dabbled myself and built X prototype”. Or for core things “yes, I’ve had my fair share of experiences and contributed Y to their open source repos”

ncr100 7y ago

> "do you feel you still have relevant knowledge", or "we do things differently than in your day", or "do you think you can work in a fast paced environment", This is illegal age discrimination, in my opinion. Consider suing them.

oppositelock 7y ago
Suing is expensive, and time consuming, and stressful. It's best to move on to someplace without their attitude problem.