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I disagree. There certainly circumstances in which a normally healthy person can be left in a permanent vegetative state (see Terry Schiavo[0].) Regardless of

I disagree. There certainly circumstances in which a normally healthy person can be left in a permanent vegetative state (see Terry Schiavo[0].) Regardless of the rarity of such occurrences, it’s always good to have clear communication around how you want to be treated in such a terrible situation. If there’s a clear medical opinion that my quality of life could not be restored to a fully functionally independent state, I’d rather just go. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terri_Schiavo_case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terri_Schiavo_case

jessriedel 7y ago
You disagree about what? That getting a DNR would be a mistake for the vast majority of healthy people? The existence of rare bad outcomes is not a good reason to decline a big class of medical treatments. You would not recommend against vaccination because every once in a while a vaccine kills someone. You do not need a DNR to have clear communication! That's why I specifically mentioned having advanced medical directives. A DNR is standing blanket order to not perform CPR or other live-saving resuscitation in case your heart stops or you stop breathing for any reason.
- nradov 7y ago
  You're confusing living wills in general with a DNR order. Every sane adult should have a living will which clearly lays out what they want in case they can't communicate it at the time. A living will need not include a DNR order: in fact you can request the opposite.
  - jessriedel 7y ago
    That's exactly my point! I am not confusing them. Please read my comment again.
    - throwaway5752 7y ago
      Agreed.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  > A DNR is standing blanket order to not perform CPR or other live-saving resuscitation in case your heart stops or you stop breathing for any reason. A proper DNR specifies the situations in which to not be resuscitated. NJ calls it an instruction directive: https://www.state.nj.us/health/advancedirective/documents/instruction_directive.pdf https://www.state.nj.us/health/advancedirective/documents/in... https://www.state.nj.us/health/advancedirective/ad/forums-faqs/ https://www.state.nj.us/health/advancedirective/ad/forums-fa...
  - jessriedel 7y ago
    They are not the same thing! https://familydoctor.org/advance-directives-and-do-not-resuscitate-orders/ https://familydoctor.org/advance-directives-and-do-not-resus... An advanced directive is a legal document indicating a person's preferences and transferring legal authority. A DNR is an order to medical personnel for emergency situations. Only the DNR is effectively binding on medical personnel in such situations because they can't be expected to know of all legal documents. Advanced directives can include DNRs, and will often do so for patients who have a bad prognosis. But healthy people do not normally include DNRs in their advanced directive!
    - lotsofpulp 7y ago
      Oh, I see. I assumed that an advanced directive is a more comprehensive DNR, since even if you’re healthy, you can still suddenly become unable to communicate, at which point you can’t make a DNR, so it doesn’t make any sense to wait until you’re unhealthy to make a DNR.
      - jessriedel 7y ago
        You can have instructions in your advanced directive about the conditions under which you want DNRs created on your behalf. (Even in the absence of advanced directives, a family members of a patient who cannot make decisions for themselves is often awarded medical power of attorney, in which case that family member can order a DNR for the patient. Needless to say, this is not ideal because the family member is often unsure exactly what the patient would want if they were of sound mind, and tend to err on the side of providing intensive care even with a bleak prognosis.)

jessriedel 7y ago

You disagree about what? That getting a DNR would be a mistake for the vast majority of healthy people? The existence of rare bad outcomes is not a good reason to decline a big class of medical treatments. You would not recommend against vaccination because every once in a while a vaccine kills someone. You do not need a DNR to have clear communication! That's why I specifically mentioned having advanced medical directives. A DNR is standing blanket order to not perform CPR or other live-saving resuscitation in case your heart stops or you stop breathing for any reason.

nradov 7y ago
You're confusing living wills in general with a DNR order. Every sane adult should have a living will which clearly lays out what they want in case they can't communicate it at the time. A living will need not include a DNR order: in fact you can request the opposite.
- jessriedel 7y ago
  That's exactly my point! I am not confusing them. Please read my comment again.
  - throwaway5752 7y ago
    Agreed.
lotsofpulp 7y ago
> A DNR is standing blanket order to not perform CPR or other live-saving resuscitation in case your heart stops or you stop breathing for any reason. A proper DNR specifies the situations in which to not be resuscitated. NJ calls it an instruction directive: https://www.state.nj.us/health/advancedirective/documents/instruction_directive.pdf https://www.state.nj.us/health/advancedirective/documents/in... https://www.state.nj.us/health/advancedirective/ad/forums-faqs/ https://www.state.nj.us/health/advancedirective/ad/forums-fa...
- jessriedel 7y ago
  They are not the same thing! https://familydoctor.org/advance-directives-and-do-not-resuscitate-orders/ https://familydoctor.org/advance-directives-and-do-not-resus... An advanced directive is a legal document indicating a person's preferences and transferring legal authority. A DNR is an order to medical personnel for emergency situations. Only the DNR is effectively binding on medical personnel in such situations because they can't be expected to know of all legal documents. Advanced directives can include DNRs, and will often do so for patients who have a bad prognosis. But healthy people do not normally include DNRs in their advanced directive!
  - lotsofpulp 7y ago
    Oh, I see. I assumed that an advanced directive is a more comprehensive DNR, since even if you’re healthy, you can still suddenly become unable to communicate, at which point you can’t make a DNR, so it doesn’t make any sense to wait until you’re unhealthy to make a DNR.
    - jessriedel 7y ago
      You can have instructions in your advanced directive about the conditions under which you want DNRs created on your behalf. (Even in the absence of advanced directives, a family members of a patient who cannot make decisions for themselves is often awarded medical power of attorney, in which case that family member can order a DNR for the patient. Needless to say, this is not ideal because the family member is often unsure exactly what the patient would want if they were of sound mind, and tend to err on the side of providing intensive care even with a bleak prognosis.)