4 ms·

San Francisco is just a really poorly run city, but so many people are willing to look past that because there are tech jobs. There are literally people shootin

San Francisco is just a really poorly run city, but so many people are willing to look past that because there are tech jobs. There are literally people shooting heroin and smoking meth in public (across from City Hall no less), property crime is ignored, and they just keep trying to raise taxes and throw more money at the problem. It just seems like it’s obvious they are making these problems worse and not better. I don’t blame businesses for leaving. After the sky high rent and thefts, it’s probably hard to survive. We chose this though.

HarryHirsch 7y ago
Remember that social services and law enforcement are starved for cash because of Prop 13 and that the oligarchy doesn't have to care - they can afford gated estates and private security. That's the Brazilian model.
- dilap 7y ago
  SF is hardly starved for cash; its budget is around $12 billion, something like $15K per capita. That’s a huge amount of money.
  - bobbytherobot 7y ago
    Much of the money is pre-allocated by propositions
  - hurricanetc 7y ago
    About half of the budget goes immediately to enterprise departments. Things like SFO, MTA, and the Port of San Fran. Another quarter goes directly to prop-approved set-asides for things such as libraries and Medi-Cal. Then some other large chunk goes to jails, courts, and hospitals. Then there is payroll for the 30,000+ city employees. Not to mention San Francisco has a massive pension liability in excess of $6 billion. The city really is bankrupt. And during the longest economic expansion in US history the city has done virtually nothing to shore up its finances. Not like San Fran is alone in that regard.
    - dilap 7y ago
      Still, absolute budget seems huge, to me. So if police and social services really are starved (are they?), it's a problem of allocation rather than absolute revenue (as implied by GP w/ reference to prop 13).
      - hurricanetc 7y ago
        It is a massive budget. The residents just keep passing ballot initiatives and spending. For comparison NYC has a budget per resident of ~$9,500. But don't let that fool you into think NYC has it figured out. The city is nearly $200 billion in debt and will probably go bankrupt if there is another big recession.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
- Pigo 7y ago
  I've read a lot of reports that most of the big cities in California are going downhill hard. I'm nowhere near informed enough to have an opinion on these complex issues, but the constant reports of "state of emergency" and "poop patrols" make me angry for the people who live there. It's ponderous how some of the wealthiest cities in the world can't manage themselves. How do they not sweep out the current administration, and bring in people willing to change things?
  - SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
    People largely don't agree on what it is that should be changed. Some insist that building more is the silver bullet; others argue that we need to tax tech companies more, or get better at building shelters in neighborhoods that don't want them.
  - paulmd 7y ago
    Other cities literally buy homeless people tickets to LA or SF to get rid of them, and cities generally don't have the amount of revenue they should have because of Prop 13. Please propose a fix for dealing with the homeless population of the entire country on a budget that is mostly pre-allocated by propositions with no ability to raise taxes. Nobody really wants to address the elephant in the room because they're all Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaires who might hypothetically benefit from Prop 13 someday.
    - selectodude 7y ago
      You don’t have to be temporarily embarrassed to benefit from prop 13, merely one of the 55 percent of Californians that own their home. Homeowners vote, and they vote in their own self interest.
      - paulmd 7y ago
        well, then apparently the homeless problem isn't materially affecting those homeowners' well-being enough for them to care? I mean, you have to step over homeless encampments to walk down the street, but at least you don't have to pay more taxes!
- gedy 7y ago
  It’s not starved for cash, SF's budget is bigger than many countries and with less a population. Also Prop 13 rates do go up, just not the bubbly rate that prices do.
  - wavefunction 7y ago
    >SF's budget is bigger than many countries Those countries being under-developed African or Central Asian republics along with the various island nation-states. Right around Zimbabwe level. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi...
    - anjc 7y ago
      You're looking at GDP, not budget... If you want to compare GDP, SF is in the top 20-30 countries according to your own link
- carapace 7y ago
  City budget for homeless services is a quarter of a billion dollars[1], and we just spent another quarter of a billion dollars building a new Public Safety Building (police H.Q.)[2] [1] http://hsh.sfgov.org/overview/budget/ http://hsh.sfgov.org/overview/budget/ [2] https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/New-S-F-police-headquarters-command-respect-if-6285587.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/New-S-F-police-h...
carapace 7y ago
> San Francisco is just a really poorly run city You don't know the half of it. For one example we have allowed ourselves to be bamboozled by PG&E out of our own (literal electric) power since circa 1925... http://www.foundsf.org/index.php?title=The_Hetch_Hetchy_Story,_Part_II:_PG%26E_and_the_Raker_Act http://www.foundsf.org/index.php?title=The_Hetch_Hetchy_Stor...

HarryHirsch 7y ago

Remember that social services and law enforcement are starved for cash because of Prop 13 and that the oligarchy doesn't have to care - they can afford gated estates and private security. That's the Brazilian model.

dilap 7y ago
SF is hardly starved for cash; its budget is around $12 billion, something like $15K per capita. That’s a huge amount of money.
- bobbytherobot 7y ago
  Much of the money is pre-allocated by propositions
- hurricanetc 7y ago
  About half of the budget goes immediately to enterprise departments. Things like SFO, MTA, and the Port of San Fran. Another quarter goes directly to prop-approved set-asides for things such as libraries and Medi-Cal. Then some other large chunk goes to jails, courts, and hospitals. Then there is payroll for the 30,000+ city employees. Not to mention San Francisco has a massive pension liability in excess of $6 billion. The city really is bankrupt. And during the longest economic expansion in US history the city has done virtually nothing to shore up its finances. Not like San Fran is alone in that regard.
  - dilap 7y ago
    Still, absolute budget seems huge, to me. So if police and social services really are starved (are they?), it's a problem of allocation rather than absolute revenue (as implied by GP w/ reference to prop 13).
    - hurricanetc 7y ago
      It is a massive budget. The residents just keep passing ballot initiatives and spending. For comparison NYC has a budget per resident of ~$9,500. But don't let that fool you into think NYC has it figured out. The city is nearly $200 billion in debt and will probably go bankrupt if there is another big recession.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
Pigo 7y ago
I've read a lot of reports that most of the big cities in California are going downhill hard. I'm nowhere near informed enough to have an opinion on these complex issues, but the constant reports of "state of emergency" and "poop patrols" make me angry for the people who live there. It's ponderous how some of the wealthiest cities in the world can't manage themselves. How do they not sweep out the current administration, and bring in people willing to change things?
- SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
  People largely don't agree on what it is that should be changed. Some insist that building more is the silver bullet; others argue that we need to tax tech companies more, or get better at building shelters in neighborhoods that don't want them.
- paulmd 7y ago
  Other cities literally buy homeless people tickets to LA or SF to get rid of them, and cities generally don't have the amount of revenue they should have because of Prop 13. Please propose a fix for dealing with the homeless population of the entire country on a budget that is mostly pre-allocated by propositions with no ability to raise taxes. Nobody really wants to address the elephant in the room because they're all Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaires who might hypothetically benefit from Prop 13 someday.
  - selectodude 7y ago
    You don’t have to be temporarily embarrassed to benefit from prop 13, merely one of the 55 percent of Californians that own their home. Homeowners vote, and they vote in their own self interest.
    - paulmd 7y ago
      well, then apparently the homeless problem isn't materially affecting those homeowners' well-being enough for them to care? I mean, you have to step over homeless encampments to walk down the street, but at least you don't have to pay more taxes!
gedy 7y ago
It’s not starved for cash, SF's budget is bigger than many countries and with less a population. Also Prop 13 rates do go up, just not the bubbly rate that prices do.
- wavefunction 7y ago
  >SF's budget is bigger than many countries Those countries being under-developed African or Central Asian republics along with the various island nation-states. Right around Zimbabwe level. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi...
  - anjc 7y ago
    You're looking at GDP, not budget... If you want to compare GDP, SF is in the top 20-30 countries according to your own link
carapace 7y ago
City budget for homeless services is a quarter of a billion dollars[1], and we just spent another quarter of a billion dollars building a new Public Safety Building (police H.Q.)[2] [1] http://hsh.sfgov.org/overview/budget/ http://hsh.sfgov.org/overview/budget/ [2] https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/New-S-F-police-headquarters-command-respect-if-6285587.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/New-S-F-police-h...

carapace 7y ago

> San Francisco is just a really poorly run city You don't know the half of it. For one example we have allowed ourselves to be bamboozled by PG&E out of our own (literal electric) power since circa 1925... http://www.foundsf.org/index.php?title=The_Hetch_Hetchy_Story,_Part_II:_PG%26E_and_the_Raker_Act http://www.foundsf.org/index.php?title=The_Hetch_Hetchy_Stor...