12 ms·

The Strange Saga of Kowloon Walled City

312 points by ecliptik 7y ago

jefftk 7y ago
> Even a new treaty in 1898, which granted Hong Kong, Kowloon, and further territories in Canton to Britain for 99 years, kept the Walled City under Chinese control. A year later, in May 1899, rumors circulated that Chinese soldiers were massing again in the Walled City, so the British sent troops across the water. They expected battle—perhaps another war—but found only the Mandarin. The irate official left too, and the British took the city, though the Chinese never renounced their claim. Missionaries moved in and built churches and schools, pig farmers from the surrounding hills took plots of land within the walls. There was almost no administrative control, and the city became a slum. Yet whenever the Hong Kong government tried to clear it to turn it into a park—evicting the residents in the process—the Chinese government always stepped in. After all, this tiny rectangle of land was still officially their territory. Answers a question I'd had for a while: what was special about this piece of land that made it effectively lawless?
- rolltiide 7y ago
  Amazing. Sad. I look up the Kowloon Walled City almost once a month.
- bsurmanski 7y ago
  my understanding was that it was in administrative limbo. Britain owned Hong Kong, and China claimed authority over just to spite them. So Britain left it alone. But China didn't care enough to actually administer it. And besides, it was disconnected from the mainland and only i tiny insignificant plot of land. So why bother setting up all the infrastructure just for a tiny slum?
  - Lio 7y ago
    More complex than that even. If Hong Kong was British under treaty then this area is not covered by British control. If the British exercise control then they are saying the treaty is invalid. The Chinese didn't exercise control because to do so would validate a treaty that they objected to after the fact; that the original colony was seeded in perpertuity . They didn't want to fully disown it because they claimed the whole colony back, not just New Territories. It was clear by the 1970s that since the Chinese could just cut the water supply off to Hong Kong if they wanted to, that the compromise solution was to pretend that the 99 years New Territories lease treaty had always covered the whole colony and just agree to handover with a two systems one state solution.
aasasd 7y ago
There's a sort of a documentary on Kowloon, from back in the day: https://youtube.com/watch?v=S-rj8m7Ssow https://youtube.com/watch?v=S-rj8m7Ssow
- SkyMarshal 7y ago
  A couple more god journalistic explorations of it from Wall St. Journal and the South China Morning Post: http://projects.wsj.com/kwc/ http://projects.wsj.com/kwc/ https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1191748/kowloon-walled-city-life-city-darkness https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1191748/kowloon-...
  - cr0sh 7y ago
    Somewhere (on Youtube or Vimeo I think) there is - or was - a "runthru" by someone (I believe they had to be Chinese) with a gopro or such strapped to their head - where they duck in an entrance of one "side" of the city, then "run" thru to the other "side" - and the along the way you get to see people, shops, etc - the denizens, so to speak, of the "city". The reason I say I believe the person had to be Chinese is that the city, from what I know, is well known to be hostile to people who don't live in the city, and especially to people who look western and aren't with an escort. It was a very insular place, where even that person doing the runthru was taking a big change being stopped by someone, but probably would've had less hassle than someone who definitely didn't look like they belonged there. Anyhow - it was a kind of "urbex" video of a place that - at the time - was still a vibrant, if mostly lawless - place of people going about their lives. Quite amazing to watch and see, honestly.
    - leppr 7y ago
      Is this it ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmqlxjTSc8w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmqlxjTSc8w
    - duskwuff 7y ago
      Are you sure that was a video of Kowloon? The city was demolished in 1993. While it's not completely out of the realm of possibility that someone ran through the city while carrying a camcorder, it would have been a rather substantial piece of hardware, and would have attracted a lot of attention.
tromp 7y ago
Some cross section is nicely illustrated at https://www.thisiscolossal.com/2014/11/an-illustrated-cross-section-of-hong-kongs-infamous-kowloon-walled-city/ https://www.thisiscolossal.com/2014/11/an-illustrated-cross-...
Someone 7y ago
”On average, residents received around $380,000 for their individual flats.” I found that extremely high in 1987-89 dollars, but then realised this must be Hong Kong dollars. https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/bank-of-england-spot/historical-spot-exchange-rates/usd/USD-to-HKD-1987 https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/bank-of-england-spot/histo... gave me an exchange rate of somewhere between 7 and 8 Hong Kong dollars to a US dollar. I think that still was a considerable sum, around 1990 in China.
- bearcobra 7y ago
  That's funny, since home prices in HK average something like 1.2 million US now I didn't blink twice at that number.
  - Someone 7y ago
    I wouldn’t blink, either, except that this was a slum (even by Chinese standards of the time), and that it was densely populated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowloon_Walled_City https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowloon_Walled_City) says it had 5,000,000 people per square mile. Dividing by 20 floors still gives you 250,000 people per square mile. If I calculate that correctly, that’s ballpark 100 square feet per inhabitant, and that area included shared space. I would guess the average ‘apartment’ would have about half that, and only the better ones would have windows facing outside.
    - robjan 7y ago
      100sqf per inhabitant isn't particularly uncommon in Hong Kong, even in normal flats. It's quite common to fit an entire family in 300-400 sqf and that flat will set you back nearly US$1m on HK Island.
- Kiro 7y ago
  > On average, resident owners received $380,000 for their individual flats – the equivalent to around £430,000 today. https://www.elsewhere-journal.com/fallenglory https://www.elsewhere-journal.com/fallenglory
aaron695 7y ago
Bloodsport 1988 had a scene in the Kowloon Walled City I think it and the Japanese footage is the only known film from inside? A good excuse as any to re/watch a classic movie.
- cr0sh 7y ago
  No - see my comment elsewhere - there was a runthru video made of the city. I remember watching it on youtube or vimeo; not sure if it still exists to watch, tho.
- mayormcmatt 7y ago
  Kumite! Kumite! Kumite!
- SamReidHughes 7y ago
  Crime Story (1993) has a scene filmed in the abandoned city before demolition.
- winkeyless 7y ago
  Call of Duty: Black Ops has an extensive session in Kowloon Walled City.
  - James-primitive 7y ago
    That makes me want to play Call of Duty: Black Ops. That makes me want to play it very much indeed.
- Lio 7y ago
  There's some BBC footage from Wicker's World where Alan Wicker is walking through the city and talking to local people. He actually refers to an older documentary he made where his team were basically run out of the city by some local triads. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JchVQMuxRVA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JchVQMuxRVA
rkho 7y ago
In the city of Kawasaki, Japan there was an arcade whose interior was modeled to look like Kowloon Walled City. The builders supposedly flew in literal trash from the actual Kowloon Walled City to use in the arcade. Sadly, they closed permanently at the end of November last year: https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/anata-no-warehouse https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/anata-no-warehouse
- disposedtrolley 7y ago
  I didn't realise they'd shut! I visited maybe mid-November last year and really enjoyed the atmosphere. They had this bizarre glowing pool for the entrance where you need to hop over some rocks to get in.
- m4rtink 7y ago
  Damned, that really sucks! :P We went there last Jully and it was marvelous. Not just the part modelled after Kowloon Walled City, but also the arcade itself, best arcade machine selection from anywhere we went. Even the other visitors we met were pretty cool, showing their crazy skills on the music arcades and sometimes ever wearing stylish cyperpunk styled clothes. :) Oh well, at least we saw it while it was still operational.
- karimmaassen 7y ago
  Crap! I skipped it last time I went to Japan and was going to go this May. :(
- computerfriend 7y ago
  I made a trip to Japan in November just to visit this before it closed down. It was pretty neat, but to everyone now terribly disappointed that they missed it: it was not as amazing as you hoped. Some of the interior architecture was I believe a very faithful reconstruction, but most of it can be approximated by walking around Mong Kok at night. A great deal of space was dedicated to arcade machines and there were some strange sci-fi elements that, in my opinion, detracted from the experience.
aplc0r 7y ago
A cool coffee table book on this subject is "Kowloon large illustrated" (ISBN 4000080709) by Iwanami Shoten. Even if you can't read Japanese, the photos and illustrations are great.
- frostburg 7y ago
  City of Darkness (Ian Lambot, Greg Girard) is also great. A reprint is available, I think.
- hcrisp 7y ago
  Chasing the Dragon (Jackie Pullinger) is the account of a British woman who moved to Hong Kong and felt led by God to help the underprivileged in Kowloon City, with dramatic results. No illustrations, but a riveting read (if you have an open mind).
  - aasasd 7y ago
    Pretty sure she's shown in the documentary: https://youtube.com/watch?v=S-rj8m7Ssow https://youtube.com/watch?v=S-rj8m7Ssow
  - tomatocracy 7y ago
    There's also a photo book by her about it called Crack in the Wall. Don't think it's currently in print but worth tracking down a secondhand copy.
zchrykng 7y ago
I thought I recognized the name of this place. It is featured in the game Shadowrun: Hong Kong [1]. Highly recommend it, lot of fun. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadowrun:_Hong_Kong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadowrun:_Hong_Kong
- tclancy 7y ago
  It also appears in Iron Fist comics as something very different.
yibg 7y ago
I think having a modern version of this would be kind of cool. Something that’s managed with laws and isn’t a slum. I’d imagine having everything you need in an enclosed space would be appealing to some people.
- wyattpeak 7y ago
  Are you imagining something different from a well-appointed apartment complex? I live in one, it's very convenient, and I could probably avoid ever leaving if I wanted to,* but I don't think it bears much similarity to a leaking, lightless slum. And it couldn't while being managed by laws (specifically, building codes). * I work from home, but there's plenty of employment to be found within the complex too, including a few office buildings.
  - yibg 7y ago
    I looked at purchasing a condo in North York up in Ontario a few years back. The condo was connected to a shopping center with grocery, restaurant, movie theatre and other shops. In addition it was right on top of the subway station. At that time I worked downtown in a building also with direct access to the subway as well as to the PATH network. So in this scenario I literally could never go outside and get everything I need, which is both good and bad. I guess I had something like that in mind but minus the subway so things are in a smaller radius.
- aasasd 7y ago
  Firstly, afaik many high-rises are already set up this way, especially in China or Hong Kong where they get pretty dense. Also IIRC there's a settlement in Alaska or Canada that's just one apartment building, population of 200-something. Personally I wouldn't be able to live there, with everyone knowing who's sleeping with whom. Secondly, I don't know how enclosed you want the space, but in many European cities, you get everything you need and most of what you want in a rather short walking distance―instead of having to drive. Plus you get sun and fresh air, as opposed to what was there in Kowloon.
  - 7y ago
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
ottolin 7y ago
I was studying in Kowloon City, the area where Kowloon Walled City is located at. I met a girl who was exceptionally hardworking as she told me she needed good grades to get good grades and hence earning money to get a better living for her family in the future. We were around 5~6 at the time. Later I learnt that she lived inside the Walled City and her father was an unlicensed dentist. Drug addicts and dealers were so natural to her as she walked pass them everyday on the way back home after school. 20+ years later her dream come true and now she is a specialist. I wonder if the poor living standard inside Walled City somehow has a positive impact on her personality. Anyway, she told me that it was a truely amazing experience to have lived in the City, but she would rather not to if given the choice.
- homonculus1 7y ago
  >I met a girl who was exceptionally hardworking as she told me she needed good grades to get good grades You generally do yes
ctdonath 7y ago
I’m curious about the economics of constructing such a place: 13 story buildings under such conditions seem a non sequitur.
- pram 7y ago
  It accreted, it wasn't planned. They just built things on top of other things.
  - ctdonath 7y ago
    13 stories seems too much to "accrete". Architectural or economic, it's a startling achievement of anarchy.
    - Symbiote 7y ago
      The book suggests a construction contractor would approach the owners of a smaller building, and in return for replacing it with a much larger one, they would own the lower X floors.
tomohawk 7y ago
Reminds me of the Java ecosystem
andrekandre 7y ago
> The result was a city outside the law: There was no tax, no regulation of businesses, no health or planning systems, no police presence. interesting...i wonder if it could be considered one of the only known “libertarian” type of cities/places? are there any other known places like this? did they fair any better?
- jessant 7y ago
  David Friedman (Milton Friedman's son), has written about how saga era Iceland could be considered libertarian. http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Academic/Iceland/Iceland.html http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Academic/Iceland/Iceland.html His piece on the Amish http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Academic/Course_Pages/Legal_Systems_Very_Different_13/final_papers_04/baxter_amish_04.htm http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Academic/Course_Pages/Legal_Sy... Somali Customary Law http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Academic/Course_Pages/legal_systems_very_different_10/PapersToDiscuss/Somalia_Paper.doc http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Academic/Course_Pages/legal_sy... See also Neutral Moresnet https://mises.org/library/anarchy-aachen https://mises.org/library/anarchy-aachen
- keiferski 7y ago
  Not quite the same thing, but: between 1918 and 1921, there was an 'anarchist territory' with a population of 7 million people in eastern Ukraine. By all accounts it was essentially stateless and had no real authority. Alas, it got entangled in the Russian Civil War and was dismantled in the 1921 by the Soviets. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makhnovia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makhnovia
  - rasz 7y ago
    You can experience something similar today in Moldova. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnistria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnistria
    - andrekandre 7y ago
      super interesting, appreciate the link
Symbiote 7y ago
There are more photos, and discussion of installing electricity and water, on this website. (It seems to be by the same author as the Atlas Obscura article, or at least the same photographer.) https://cityofdarkness.co.uk/category/the_city/ https://cityofdarkness.co.uk/category/the_city/
keiferski 7y ago
The continued (and growing) popularity of KWC seems to me to indicate a real desire for a more organic, free-form style of living space and architecture as opposed to the IKEA / Dubai / generic mall style that we seem to be building everywhere. I wonder if something similar will ever arise in the near future...my guess is that we'll have to wait for space travel to really kick off to see more flexible forms of government and construction. In any case, the closest thing today in Hong Kong to the Walled City is probably Chungking Mansions. Not quite as anarchic or run down, but it does have a family resemblance. I recommend the book Ghetto at the Center of the World: Chungking Mansions, Hong Kong for more about the interesting global mix of people and economics that goes on there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chungking_Mansions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chungking_Mansions https://www.press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/G/bo11234886.html https://www.press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/G/bo11...
- nradov 7y ago
  Such styles of living space and architecture are only popular until there's a fire or earthquake. Then everybody dies.

312 points by ecliptik 7y ago

> Even a new treaty in 1898, which granted Hong Kong, Kowloon, and further territories in Canton to Britain for 99 years, kept the Walled City under Chinese control. A year later, in May 1899, rumors circulated that Chinese soldiers were massing again in the Walled City, so the British sent troops across the water. They expected battle—perhaps another war—but found only the Mandarin. The irate official left too, and the British took the city, though the Chinese never renounced their claim. Missionaries moved in and built churches and schools, pig farmers from the surrounding hills took plots of land within the walls. There was almost no administrative control, and the city became a slum. Yet whenever the Hong Kong government tried to clear it to turn it into a park—evicting the residents in the process—the Chinese government always stepped in. After all, this tiny rectangle of land was still officially their territory. Answers a question I'd had for a while: what was special about this piece of land that made it effectively lawless?

rolltiide 7y ago
Amazing. Sad. I look up the Kowloon Walled City almost once a month.
bsurmanski 7y ago
my understanding was that it was in administrative limbo. Britain owned Hong Kong, and China claimed authority over just to spite them. So Britain left it alone. But China didn't care enough to actually administer it. And besides, it was disconnected from the mainland and only i tiny insignificant plot of land. So why bother setting up all the infrastructure just for a tiny slum?
- Lio 7y ago
  More complex than that even. If Hong Kong was British under treaty then this area is not covered by British control. If the British exercise control then they are saying the treaty is invalid. The Chinese didn't exercise control because to do so would validate a treaty that they objected to after the fact; that the original colony was seeded in perpertuity . They didn't want to fully disown it because they claimed the whole colony back, not just New Territories. It was clear by the 1970s that since the Chinese could just cut the water supply off to Hong Kong if they wanted to, that the compromise solution was to pretend that the 99 years New Territories lease treaty had always covered the whole colony and just agree to handover with a two systems one state solution.

aasasd 7y ago

There's a sort of a documentary on Kowloon, from back in the day: https://youtube.com/watch?v=S-rj8m7Ssow https://youtube.com/watch?v=S-rj8m7Ssow

SkyMarshal 7y ago
A couple more god journalistic explorations of it from Wall St. Journal and the South China Morning Post: http://projects.wsj.com/kwc/ http://projects.wsj.com/kwc/ https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1191748/kowloon-walled-city-life-city-darkness https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1191748/kowloon-...
- cr0sh 7y ago
  Somewhere (on Youtube or Vimeo I think) there is - or was - a "runthru" by someone (I believe they had to be Chinese) with a gopro or such strapped to their head - where they duck in an entrance of one "side" of the city, then "run" thru to the other "side" - and the along the way you get to see people, shops, etc - the denizens, so to speak, of the "city". The reason I say I believe the person had to be Chinese is that the city, from what I know, is well known to be hostile to people who don't live in the city, and especially to people who look western and aren't with an escort. It was a very insular place, where even that person doing the runthru was taking a big change being stopped by someone, but probably would've had less hassle than someone who definitely didn't look like they belonged there. Anyhow - it was a kind of "urbex" video of a place that - at the time - was still a vibrant, if mostly lawless - place of people going about their lives. Quite amazing to watch and see, honestly.
  - leppr 7y ago
    Is this it ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmqlxjTSc8w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmqlxjTSc8w
  - duskwuff 7y ago
    Are you sure that was a video of Kowloon? The city was demolished in 1993. While it's not completely out of the realm of possibility that someone ran through the city while carrying a camcorder, it would have been a rather substantial piece of hardware, and would have attracted a lot of attention.

tromp 7y ago

Some cross section is nicely illustrated at https://www.thisiscolossal.com/2014/11/an-illustrated-cross-section-of-hong-kongs-infamous-kowloon-walled-city/ https://www.thisiscolossal.com/2014/11/an-illustrated-cross-...

Someone 7y ago

”On average, residents received around $380,000 for their individual flats.” I found that extremely high in 1987-89 dollars, but then realised this must be Hong Kong dollars. https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/bank-of-england-spot/historical-spot-exchange-rates/usd/USD-to-HKD-1987 https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/bank-of-england-spot/histo... gave me an exchange rate of somewhere between 7 and 8 Hong Kong dollars to a US dollar. I think that still was a considerable sum, around 1990 in China.

bearcobra 7y ago
That's funny, since home prices in HK average something like 1.2 million US now I didn't blink twice at that number.
- Someone 7y ago
  I wouldn’t blink, either, except that this was a slum (even by Chinese standards of the time), and that it was densely populated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowloon_Walled_City https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowloon_Walled_City) says it had 5,000,000 people per square mile. Dividing by 20 floors still gives you 250,000 people per square mile. If I calculate that correctly, that’s ballpark 100 square feet per inhabitant, and that area included shared space. I would guess the average ‘apartment’ would have about half that, and only the better ones would have windows facing outside.
  - robjan 7y ago
    100sqf per inhabitant isn't particularly uncommon in Hong Kong, even in normal flats. It's quite common to fit an entire family in 300-400 sqf and that flat will set you back nearly US$1m on HK Island.
Kiro 7y ago
> On average, resident owners received $380,000 for their individual flats – the equivalent to around £430,000 today. https://www.elsewhere-journal.com/fallenglory https://www.elsewhere-journal.com/fallenglory

aaron695 7y ago

Bloodsport 1988 had a scene in the Kowloon Walled City I think it and the Japanese footage is the only known film from inside? A good excuse as any to re/watch a classic movie.

cr0sh 7y ago
No - see my comment elsewhere - there was a runthru video made of the city. I remember watching it on youtube or vimeo; not sure if it still exists to watch, tho.
mayormcmatt 7y ago
Kumite! Kumite! Kumite!
SamReidHughes 7y ago
Crime Story (1993) has a scene filmed in the abandoned city before demolition.
winkeyless 7y ago
Call of Duty: Black Ops has an extensive session in Kowloon Walled City.
- James-primitive 7y ago
  That makes me want to play Call of Duty: Black Ops. That makes me want to play it very much indeed.
Lio 7y ago
There's some BBC footage from Wicker's World where Alan Wicker is walking through the city and talking to local people. He actually refers to an older documentary he made where his team were basically run out of the city by some local triads. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JchVQMuxRVA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JchVQMuxRVA

rkho 7y ago

In the city of Kawasaki, Japan there was an arcade whose interior was modeled to look like Kowloon Walled City. The builders supposedly flew in literal trash from the actual Kowloon Walled City to use in the arcade. Sadly, they closed permanently at the end of November last year: https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/anata-no-warehouse https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/anata-no-warehouse

disposedtrolley 7y ago
I didn't realise they'd shut! I visited maybe mid-November last year and really enjoyed the atmosphere. They had this bizarre glowing pool for the entrance where you need to hop over some rocks to get in.
m4rtink 7y ago
Damned, that really sucks! :P We went there last Jully and it was marvelous. Not just the part modelled after Kowloon Walled City, but also the arcade itself, best arcade machine selection from anywhere we went. Even the other visitors we met were pretty cool, showing their crazy skills on the music arcades and sometimes ever wearing stylish cyperpunk styled clothes. :) Oh well, at least we saw it while it was still operational.
karimmaassen 7y ago
Crap! I skipped it last time I went to Japan and was going to go this May. :(
computerfriend 7y ago
I made a trip to Japan in November just to visit this before it closed down. It was pretty neat, but to everyone now terribly disappointed that they missed it: it was not as amazing as you hoped. Some of the interior architecture was I believe a very faithful reconstruction, but most of it can be approximated by walking around Mong Kok at night. A great deal of space was dedicated to arcade machines and there were some strange sci-fi elements that, in my opinion, detracted from the experience.

aplc0r 7y ago

A cool coffee table book on this subject is "Kowloon large illustrated" (ISBN 4000080709) by Iwanami Shoten. Even if you can't read Japanese, the photos and illustrations are great.

frostburg 7y ago
City of Darkness (Ian Lambot, Greg Girard) is also great. A reprint is available, I think.
hcrisp 7y ago
Chasing the Dragon (Jackie Pullinger) is the account of a British woman who moved to Hong Kong and felt led by God to help the underprivileged in Kowloon City, with dramatic results. No illustrations, but a riveting read (if you have an open mind).
- aasasd 7y ago
  Pretty sure she's shown in the documentary: https://youtube.com/watch?v=S-rj8m7Ssow https://youtube.com/watch?v=S-rj8m7Ssow
- tomatocracy 7y ago
  There's also a photo book by her about it called Crack in the Wall. Don't think it's currently in print but worth tracking down a secondhand copy.

zchrykng 7y ago

I thought I recognized the name of this place. It is featured in the game Shadowrun: Hong Kong [1]. Highly recommend it, lot of fun. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadowrun:_Hong_Kong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadowrun:_Hong_Kong

tclancy 7y ago
It also appears in Iron Fist comics as something very different.

yibg 7y ago

I think having a modern version of this would be kind of cool. Something that’s managed with laws and isn’t a slum. I’d imagine having everything you need in an enclosed space would be appealing to some people.

wyattpeak 7y ago
Are you imagining something different from a well-appointed apartment complex? I live in one, it's very convenient, and I could probably avoid ever leaving if I wanted to,* but I don't think it bears much similarity to a leaking, lightless slum. And it couldn't while being managed by laws (specifically, building codes). * I work from home, but there's plenty of employment to be found within the complex too, including a few office buildings.
- yibg 7y ago
  I looked at purchasing a condo in North York up in Ontario a few years back. The condo was connected to a shopping center with grocery, restaurant, movie theatre and other shops. In addition it was right on top of the subway station. At that time I worked downtown in a building also with direct access to the subway as well as to the PATH network. So in this scenario I literally could never go outside and get everything I need, which is both good and bad. I guess I had something like that in mind but minus the subway so things are in a smaller radius.
aasasd 7y ago
Firstly, afaik many high-rises are already set up this way, especially in China or Hong Kong where they get pretty dense. Also IIRC there's a settlement in Alaska or Canada that's just one apartment building, population of 200-something. Personally I wouldn't be able to live there, with everyone knowing who's sleeping with whom. Secondly, I don't know how enclosed you want the space, but in many European cities, you get everything you need and most of what you want in a rather short walking distance―instead of having to drive. Plus you get sun and fresh air, as opposed to what was there in Kowloon.
- 7y ago

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

ottolin 7y ago

I was studying in Kowloon City, the area where Kowloon Walled City is located at. I met a girl who was exceptionally hardworking as she told me she needed good grades to get good grades and hence earning money to get a better living for her family in the future. We were around 5~6 at the time. Later I learnt that she lived inside the Walled City and her father was an unlicensed dentist. Drug addicts and dealers were so natural to her as she walked pass them everyday on the way back home after school. 20+ years later her dream come true and now she is a specialist. I wonder if the poor living standard inside Walled City somehow has a positive impact on her personality. Anyway, she told me that it was a truely amazing experience to have lived in the City, but she would rather not to if given the choice.

homonculus1 7y ago
>I met a girl who was exceptionally hardworking as she told me she needed good grades to get good grades You generally do yes

ctdonath 7y ago

I’m curious about the economics of constructing such a place: 13 story buildings under such conditions seem a non sequitur.

pram 7y ago
It accreted, it wasn't planned. They just built things on top of other things.
- ctdonath 7y ago
  13 stories seems too much to "accrete". Architectural or economic, it's a startling achievement of anarchy.
  - Symbiote 7y ago
    The book suggests a construction contractor would approach the owners of a smaller building, and in return for replacing it with a much larger one, they would own the lower X floors.

tomohawk 7y ago

Reminds me of the Java ecosystem

andrekandre 7y ago

> The result was a city outside the law: There was no tax, no regulation of businesses, no health or planning systems, no police presence. interesting...i wonder if it could be considered one of the only known “libertarian” type of cities/places? are there any other known places like this? did they fair any better?

jessant 7y ago
David Friedman (Milton Friedman's son), has written about how saga era Iceland could be considered libertarian. http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Academic/Iceland/Iceland.html http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Academic/Iceland/Iceland.html His piece on the Amish http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Academic/Course_Pages/Legal_Systems_Very_Different_13/final_papers_04/baxter_amish_04.htm http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Academic/Course_Pages/Legal_Sy... Somali Customary Law http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Academic/Course_Pages/legal_systems_very_different_10/PapersToDiscuss/Somalia_Paper.doc http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Academic/Course_Pages/legal_sy... See also Neutral Moresnet https://mises.org/library/anarchy-aachen https://mises.org/library/anarchy-aachen
keiferski 7y ago
Not quite the same thing, but: between 1918 and 1921, there was an 'anarchist territory' with a population of 7 million people in eastern Ukraine. By all accounts it was essentially stateless and had no real authority. Alas, it got entangled in the Russian Civil War and was dismantled in the 1921 by the Soviets. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makhnovia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makhnovia
- rasz 7y ago
  You can experience something similar today in Moldova. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnistria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnistria
  - andrekandre 7y ago
    super interesting, appreciate the link

Symbiote 7y ago

There are more photos, and discussion of installing electricity and water, on this website. (It seems to be by the same author as the Atlas Obscura article, or at least the same photographer.) https://cityofdarkness.co.uk/category/the_city/ https://cityofdarkness.co.uk/category/the_city/

keiferski 7y ago

The continued (and growing) popularity of KWC seems to me to indicate a real desire for a more organic, free-form style of living space and architecture as opposed to the IKEA / Dubai / generic mall style that we seem to be building everywhere. I wonder if something similar will ever arise in the near future...my guess is that we'll have to wait for space travel to really kick off to see more flexible forms of government and construction. In any case, the closest thing today in Hong Kong to the Walled City is probably Chungking Mansions. Not quite as anarchic or run down, but it does have a family resemblance. I recommend the book Ghetto at the Center of the World: Chungking Mansions, Hong Kong for more about the interesting global mix of people and economics that goes on there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chungking_Mansions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chungking_Mansions https://www.press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/G/bo11234886.html https://www.press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/G/bo11...

nradov 7y ago
Such styles of living space and architecture are only popular until there's a fire or earthquake. Then everybody dies.