74 ms·

Can You Locate Iran? Few Voters Can

48 points by vo2maxer 7y ago

coldcode 7y ago
I remember writing a report about Afghanistan in middle school (long before US involvement). Other kids thought I made the country up. But I always loved history and geography so I guess I am not typical.
magicalhippo 7y ago
Back in late 2003 I was visiting a friend in Florida. News was filled with the war on terror, with the invasion of Iraq starting a few months earlier. He introduced me to his neighbor, who asked where I was from. Norway I replied. "Oh, hmm, we haven't bombed Norway yet... where is it?" After a moment he added that he was only half joking, as a reference to the geography lessons he had received at school and the news coverage.
- amflare 7y ago
  "God created war so that Americans would learn geography." - Mark Twain - The Innocents Abroad
  - dang 7y ago
    That doesn't appear in the Gutenberg.org version of the text [1], and according to the Quote Investigator, Twain didn't say it [2]. 1. https://www.gutenberg.org/files/3176/3176-h/3176-h.htm https://www.gutenberg.org/files/3176/3176-h/3176-h.htm 2. https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/05/19/geography/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/05/19/geography/
juped 7y ago
This sort of poll is perennial but never says anything interesting, imo.
- rwem 7y ago
  I get the impression from the map of responses that many respondents were taking the piss. Who really thinks Iran is Greenland?
  - olcor 7y ago
    Clearly. So many also pointing right in the middle of the US, Brazil and Australia. I’m not sure if the poll was portrayed to be serious. Also, as someone who was in the US for quite some time, I found that (very much contrary to national stereotypes), Americans were quite knowledgeable about geography and global current affairs. This was evident from the multicultural societies where people knew about their friends, social meetups talking about a lot of different subjects across the world, etc. I refuse to believe that most people are bad at pointing out roughly where different countries are, unless they are countries which genuinely aren’t very well known.
    - crispyambulance 7y ago
      > I’m not sure if the poll was portrayed to be serious. Indeed, Politico used a survey company that claims they apply "rigorous scientific methodology, trusted by leading organizations across business, policy, media, and tech." But I find it very difficult to believe that someone identifying Iran by pointing into the ocean, Greenland, or the USA is taking the survey seriously. I mean, American education is certainly horrible, but come on! https://morningconsult.com/product/survey-research/#section__methodology https://morningconsult.com/product/survey-research/#section_...
  - ThrustVectoring 7y ago
    Yeah. They probably paid for completion of the poll, and completing the poll required some selection of a location, so a ton of people did exactly that without even reading what the question was.
    - BRAlNlAC 7y ago
      Yup. Why is this even posted on HN? Seems really low brow, honestly. I see this as the exact sort of click bait, anger inducing content a lot of people here want to avoid. Why do we trust the poll if it doesn’t publish the survey contents and describe the methodology for participant selection? Survey design is extremely important, it’s like Stats 101. 2% margin of error, oh I’m sure. Fun anecdote time: my high school was selected to take a survey on extracurricular activities. It was taken over a couple of days in the period before lunch and took like 2 hours total. My memory is that everyone in the school used it as an exercise in creativity, with lots of people making themselves out to be drug abuser or gang members on paper, just for the novelty. I distinctly remember being surprised because so many people I didn’t expect(because they were typically honest, straight and narrow type folks) were laughing at their made up character who took meth every day before school and did heroin on the weekends, or whatever. Maybe it’s for this reason that the extreme importance of test design and method has stuck with me, but it seems like most people forget it after they pass Stats? hmmmm.
jiveturkey 7y ago
Not at all surprising. Sad, but not surprising. How many voters know who the Secretary of State is? How many voters know who their local congress critter is? I guarantee the numbers are similarly dismal.
- jandrese 7y ago
  It's pretty typical for the kind of answers you get from polling people walking around the mall in the middle of a weekday.
  - jiveturkey 7y ago
    aka voters
- ergothus 7y ago
  I actually regularly forget my local Reps - because every time I check in they've been voting the way I want, so I have very little reason to think about them. I generally know about them for a few weeks before elections and rapidly forget after that. (with the occasional hot button issue making me check in on them, but then my memory lasts only for an hour or so) I used to feel a lot of guilt about this, but eventually I decided that's the whole point of a representative democracy. Depending on people to be aware and informed on all the issues is extremely likely to fail. Whatever system of govt we want to strive for, it has to build on that reality.
throw0x1away 7y ago
Everyone who knows how to read and know an approximate location of the middle east will be able to locate it. Not sure what's the point though? Is it to highlight how stupid average American voters are? That's a broad generalization and just a blunt offense. Also how is it an indicator of anything? 99% I Iranians wont be able to locate Wyoming. So what?
- funklute 7y ago
  I think there is a strong argument to be made that having the US police the world, in the name of democracy, is not great if a large proportion of the voters are not educated enough to make rational voting decisions on such issues. And geography is a fairly fundamental part of understanding geopolitics. Arguing the other way around also isn't quite the same thing, partly because Iran doesn't have military bases in Canada and Mexico.
- jiveturkey 7y ago
  > Wyoming Wyoming is not an international political entity. I also wouldn't expect americans to reliably locate Montreal, but they damn well better know where Canada is. It's an indicator of the sad state of affairs, that most "voters" (presumably those that voted in the presidential election) cannot locate a country as important as Iran. Are you kidding me that you think someone voting for president should have such little knowledge of the world? This is why (eg) climate change is an insoluble problem. The masses don't know and don't care.
  - thoughtleader31 7y ago
    It's an extravagant view to say the least. Iran is one of a series of major, independent, influential polities that have succeeded one another since 550 BC in the same region with a degree of continuity, with an immense historical impact. Knowledge of it is being equated with knowing about Missouri or Wyoming, seriously?
- mars4rp 7y ago
  "and just a blunt offense" if you are offended you shouldn't hide behind a throwaway!
csours 7y ago
47% supported the strike? How could they possibly have had enough information to support it? Iran = Bad Man from Iran = Bad Kill Man from Iran = Good???
- datashow 7y ago
  So Soleimani = "Man from Iran"?
  - csours 7y ago
    Yes.
- throwlaplace 7y ago
  “Every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud, adopts as a last resource pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and happy to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority.” ― Arthur Schopenhauer edit: it's easy to read this pridefully yourself ("i have other things to be proud of and therefore i'm immune from such petty things"). i think the most significant part of the quotation is the last part - you can derive pride in direct proportion to how invested you are. most people (those that aren't nihilists) have such things that function for them in exactly the same way. it's ultimately a sublimation urge -- we prove ourselves insofar as we sacrifice. if nationalism vexes you then i challenge you to reflect on your own loyalties/commitments.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - danans 7y ago
    > if nationalism vexes you then i challenge you to reflect on your own loyalties/commitments. I agree, but just because the psychological mechanisms that give rise to both humanism and nationalism are related, doesn't mean that we can't make reasonable judgments about which is better than the other, especially when the nationalism is of an ethnic or racial variety.
dmitriid 7y ago
"Ah, war. It's God's way of teaching Americans geography" [1] And not just Americans. Anyone, really. [1] Attributed to many people, https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/05/19/geography/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/05/19/geography/ I heard it from in a Daily Show segment on Russia-Georgia war in 2008.
tyingq 7y ago
"Men were about twice as likely as women to be able to identify Iran on both maps" Wow, that's unexpected. Is there some credible source on why this is the case? Also curious if this is generally true...would you get the same result if they were asked to identify Belgium on a map?
- op00to 7y ago
  Scientific studies suggest men generally have a better sense of direction than women, and use that sense of direction more effectively. Kind of makes you wonder where the "fails to ask for directions" trope comes from! :) https://blog.education.nationalgeographic.org/2015/12/10/do-men-have-a-better-sense-of-direction-than-women/ https://blog.education.nationalgeographic.org/2015/12/10/do-...
  - op00to 7y ago
    And yes - I know it didn't PROVE men have a better sense, it suggests that based on the effects of hormones administered to women.
  - rurp 7y ago
    I'd guess the trope comes from a combination of men traditionally doing more of the driving and having a stronger desire to figure out problems on their own.
- pflats 7y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised if there are a number of confounding factors that skew male, such TV shows/movies/video games marketed to men that feature Iran and/or the region.
- dkarl 7y ago
  I have been surprised to discover how many people know very little about geography but even more surprised to learn what a high proportion of people who do know geography know it mostly from military history, which is a stereotypically masculine interest.
whoisjuan 7y ago
How the heck someone put Iran in South America? Just a little exposure to everyday media should give you enough to rule out that completely. That's such a basic geography understanding. This completely blows my mind.
- koboll 7y ago
  With any public opinion survey there's going to be a certain amount of "noise" results. You can't _force_ people to give serious answers. But if your methodology is sound (Morning Consult's certainly is) then they will tend to cancel each other out.
  - greeneggs 7y ago
    You can't force people to give serious answers, but you can incentivize them to do so. My guess is that the results would be dramatically better if the respondents were paid for correct answers.
    - koboll 7y ago
      That would incentivize respondents to cheat and look it up. I think you'd find that would make the results much worse.
- damq 7y ago
  I find the whole survey incredibly suspicious. There's no way there were actually multiple people who thought Iran was an ocean.
- eithed 7y ago
  I guess the same way somebody would put Iran in the middle of the ocean
- thoughtleader31 7y ago
  Given that it's a completely nonsense answer among the outliers, I wouldn't be as concerned as to with the people that put it in the Balkans or confuse it with Turkey.
webdva 7y ago
And yet Twitter is the becoming-heroic war machine of the ordinary citizen, because it and other armaments of information allow a person to independently participate in information warfare on rival states. Just like the capsuleer pod technology found in the lore of the futuristic space setting massively multiplayer online roleplaying game Eve Online. It's safe to conclude that generally Twitter democratizes power.
mullingitover 7y ago
To paraphrase what wise people have warned for millenia: Democratic government by an ignorant populace is a recipe for disaster. We get the government we deserve, but that same malfeasant government we deserve is responsible for educating us.
- andrei_says_ 7y ago
  I’m not sure we “deserve” the unprecedented propaganda efforts, the weaponization of social media, the think tanks that have been iterating more and more sophisticated manipulation methods, gerrymandering which makes voting useless in key districts etc. Also see the work of George Lakoff. Enlightenment thinking is a myth. We’re super easy to manipulate and that’s where the effort and money goes. Confident good looking people on tv repeating carefully constructed lies with authoritarian voices and straight faces. It is impossible to argue with their viewership. Propaganda works. Do we deserve this almost impossible to navigate environment where it’s hard to tell what’s real and what’s not? In my opinion this is the result of criminal efforts to normalize crime.
lmaophp 7y ago
Does it matter jew shill?
hinkley 7y ago
Can we talk about how the map they chose doesn’t show Kuwait?
- smcl 7y ago
  But ... they do. It's right there where it's supposed to be. https://morningconsult.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/2020-People-Identifying-Iran-on-regional-map-scaled.png https://morningconsult.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/2020-P...
  - hinkley 7y ago
    Oh my, you are correct. The southern border is obscured by dots. On my screen I couldn't see it at all. It looked like Saudi Arabia had absorbed Kuwait. My brain zeros in on irony, and I thought it was funny that we're talking about not finding things on the map and the map was wrong.
rasz 7y ago
To be fair most of the dots landed in what Trump and his demographic call "Shithole Countries", you couldnt make a better move to stay in power than this new war.
verganileonardo 7y ago
Not sure if only taking into account the % of voters that precisely mapped where Iran is located is enough, as it would put someone that selected Egypt and South America in the same group (wrongly identified the location). I would prefer an 'average distance from the border' analysis, in which we would be able to compare which group is clearly unaware of Iran's location (selecting Europe or even North America, for example) and which group at least has a basic idea of the location (Middle East).
yutuytuyt 7y ago
Huge majority of them was decently close, what's wrong with that?
refurb 7y ago
I would take the results of this poll keeping "Boaty McBoatface" in mind.
deno 7y ago
Maybe unpopular opinion: Most people don’t have any reason to look at maps beyond local area and it doesn’t automatically mean they’re stupid. Middle east is not a continent and if you look at a global map without country lines then you might not notice it in relation to any point of reference, and as such have trouble locating it. Knowing where a place is on map is not necessary to participate in democracy. Most people vote instinctively and just have a mental map that there’s a potential external threat and how should we respond to this threat. It’s about liberty vs. safety. Maps offer no help in this whatsoever.
smcl 7y ago
There are a lot of comments here relating this to the escalation in tensions in the region - making very strong arguments for and against the idea that because 77% of the US could not place Iran on the map it is ridiculous that they should consider going to war. Let me clear this up: it is ridiculous regardless of this statistic. Sure it might be a little embarrassing for Americans that there are so many people fired up to declare war on a country they know precious little about, but war with Iran would still be terribly wrong even if they could pinpoint Iran on the map and draw a little dot exactly where Tehran is. And for those suggesting that this exercise is like asking Iranians to pick out Wyoming or Missouri on a map ... I really don't think you want to open that can of worms.
mnm1 7y ago
Not being able to identify Iran is one thing. But it takes a special kind of stupid to think it's in Australia or the Americas. I was going to comment that we don't need yet another article pointing out the stupidity of Americans. I was wrong. This points out either stupidity beyond any comprehension or that a lot of people did not take this seriously. I hope it's the latter. It's embarassing to me to be a part of a society that is this stupid otherwise.
vo2maxer 7y ago
The poll is telling given survey findings of only 36% correct answers on geographical knowledge among high school students: https://calgeography.sdsu.edu/wp-content/uploads/GeoEduReport_Final_web.pdf https://calgeography.sdsu.edu/wp-content/uploads/GeoEduRepor...
hinkley 7y ago
I've gotten to observe some tutoring recently and it gives me a different perspective on this than the typical "Oh look how stupid people are" reaction than probably got this post flagged. Some people, when faced with a problem they can't answer, respond with a glib answer, or a panicked one. I propose that when you ask someone where Iran is and they don't know, they click on Northern Africa not because they think it's in Africa but because as soon as they give any answer they can be done. "Fuck it, I'm choosing North Africa." It's like that kid who answers '5' when the teacher asks what 2x4 is. How the fuck could five be the answer? It's not even an even number! Are you stupid? No. You've given up, and you think guessing will get you out of this experience. Many of the teachers I knew would double down in this situation. Yes, you should not condition the child to get out of things by doing them badly, but now they're the focus of everyone's attention which is also detrimental to the process. I would like it if education focused on making people more resilient and empowered to figure out what they don't know instead of trying to get out of the uncomfortable situation. If people can learn on their own you don't have to min-max education to help the most people with a single process (leaving both the gifted and the slow kids in the dust in the process). I've said before that I think physical education should focus on how to do physical things without hurting yourself (ex: how to fall properly). Now I'd also like it if academic education focused not on how to cram things into people's heads faster but how to keep from getting frustrated or panicked when facing adversity in learning.
jlangemeier 7y ago
I came to complain about the graphs... Their 38%s don't line up; like at all. Also, they don't go into what they mean by "unlabeled" in either the current methodology or their previously linked North Korea methodology either for how the people selected where Iran was. With the datapoints on the map, I'm wondering if they even had country borders; otherwise I'd think a heatmap of the selected countries would be a better telling of the data. In general, their visual representations of what was produced was, in short, hot freaking garbage. Which may mean that the data is; and kinda throws the entire survey into question.
plumednom 7y ago
Sure, Johnny can't read a map (or a book), but he can sure shoot a gun (and kill middle easterners for oil profits)
aazaa 7y ago
Why is this flagged?

48 points by vo2maxer 7y ago

I remember writing a report about Afghanistan in middle school (long before US involvement). Other kids thought I made the country up. But I always loved history and geography so I guess I am not typical.

magicalhippo 7y ago

Back in late 2003 I was visiting a friend in Florida. News was filled with the war on terror, with the invasion of Iraq starting a few months earlier. He introduced me to his neighbor, who asked where I was from. Norway I replied. "Oh, hmm, we haven't bombed Norway yet... where is it?" After a moment he added that he was only half joking, as a reference to the geography lessons he had received at school and the news coverage.

amflare 7y ago
"God created war so that Americans would learn geography." - Mark Twain - The Innocents Abroad
- dang 7y ago
  That doesn't appear in the Gutenberg.org version of the text [1], and according to the Quote Investigator, Twain didn't say it [2]. 1. https://www.gutenberg.org/files/3176/3176-h/3176-h.htm https://www.gutenberg.org/files/3176/3176-h/3176-h.htm 2. https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/05/19/geography/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/05/19/geography/

juped 7y ago

This sort of poll is perennial but never says anything interesting, imo.

rwem 7y ago
I get the impression from the map of responses that many respondents were taking the piss. Who really thinks Iran is Greenland?
- olcor 7y ago
  Clearly. So many also pointing right in the middle of the US, Brazil and Australia. I’m not sure if the poll was portrayed to be serious. Also, as someone who was in the US for quite some time, I found that (very much contrary to national stereotypes), Americans were quite knowledgeable about geography and global current affairs. This was evident from the multicultural societies where people knew about their friends, social meetups talking about a lot of different subjects across the world, etc. I refuse to believe that most people are bad at pointing out roughly where different countries are, unless they are countries which genuinely aren’t very well known.
  - crispyambulance 7y ago
    > I’m not sure if the poll was portrayed to be serious. Indeed, Politico used a survey company that claims they apply "rigorous scientific methodology, trusted by leading organizations across business, policy, media, and tech." But I find it very difficult to believe that someone identifying Iran by pointing into the ocean, Greenland, or the USA is taking the survey seriously. I mean, American education is certainly horrible, but come on! https://morningconsult.com/product/survey-research/#section__methodology https://morningconsult.com/product/survey-research/#section_...
- ThrustVectoring 7y ago
  Yeah. They probably paid for completion of the poll, and completing the poll required some selection of a location, so a ton of people did exactly that without even reading what the question was.
  - BRAlNlAC 7y ago
    Yup. Why is this even posted on HN? Seems really low brow, honestly. I see this as the exact sort of click bait, anger inducing content a lot of people here want to avoid. Why do we trust the poll if it doesn’t publish the survey contents and describe the methodology for participant selection? Survey design is extremely important, it’s like Stats 101. 2% margin of error, oh I’m sure. Fun anecdote time: my high school was selected to take a survey on extracurricular activities. It was taken over a couple of days in the period before lunch and took like 2 hours total. My memory is that everyone in the school used it as an exercise in creativity, with lots of people making themselves out to be drug abuser or gang members on paper, just for the novelty. I distinctly remember being surprised because so many people I didn’t expect(because they were typically honest, straight and narrow type folks) were laughing at their made up character who took meth every day before school and did heroin on the weekends, or whatever. Maybe it’s for this reason that the extreme importance of test design and method has stuck with me, but it seems like most people forget it after they pass Stats? hmmmm.

jiveturkey 7y ago

Not at all surprising. Sad, but not surprising. How many voters know who the Secretary of State is? How many voters know who their local congress critter is? I guarantee the numbers are similarly dismal.

jandrese 7y ago
It's pretty typical for the kind of answers you get from polling people walking around the mall in the middle of a weekday.
- jiveturkey 7y ago
  aka voters
ergothus 7y ago
I actually regularly forget my local Reps - because every time I check in they've been voting the way I want, so I have very little reason to think about them. I generally know about them for a few weeks before elections and rapidly forget after that. (with the occasional hot button issue making me check in on them, but then my memory lasts only for an hour or so) I used to feel a lot of guilt about this, but eventually I decided that's the whole point of a representative democracy. Depending on people to be aware and informed on all the issues is extremely likely to fail. Whatever system of govt we want to strive for, it has to build on that reality.

throw0x1away 7y ago

Everyone who knows how to read and know an approximate location of the middle east will be able to locate it. Not sure what's the point though? Is it to highlight how stupid average American voters are? That's a broad generalization and just a blunt offense. Also how is it an indicator of anything? 99% I Iranians wont be able to locate Wyoming. So what?

funklute 7y ago
I think there is a strong argument to be made that having the US police the world, in the name of democracy, is not great if a large proportion of the voters are not educated enough to make rational voting decisions on such issues. And geography is a fairly fundamental part of understanding geopolitics. Arguing the other way around also isn't quite the same thing, partly because Iran doesn't have military bases in Canada and Mexico.
jiveturkey 7y ago
> Wyoming Wyoming is not an international political entity. I also wouldn't expect americans to reliably locate Montreal, but they damn well better know where Canada is. It's an indicator of the sad state of affairs, that most "voters" (presumably those that voted in the presidential election) cannot locate a country as important as Iran. Are you kidding me that you think someone voting for president should have such little knowledge of the world? This is why (eg) climate change is an insoluble problem. The masses don't know and don't care.
- thoughtleader31 7y ago
  It's an extravagant view to say the least. Iran is one of a series of major, independent, influential polities that have succeeded one another since 550 BC in the same region with a degree of continuity, with an immense historical impact. Knowledge of it is being equated with knowing about Missouri or Wyoming, seriously?
mars4rp 7y ago
"and just a blunt offense" if you are offended you shouldn't hide behind a throwaway!

csours 7y ago

47% supported the strike? How could they possibly have had enough information to support it? Iran = Bad Man from Iran = Bad Kill Man from Iran = Good???

datashow 7y ago
So Soleimani = "Man from Iran"?
- csours 7y ago
  Yes.
throwlaplace 7y ago
“Every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud, adopts as a last resource pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and happy to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority.” ― Arthur Schopenhauer edit: it's easy to read this pridefully yourself ("i have other things to be proud of and therefore i'm immune from such petty things"). i think the most significant part of the quotation is the last part - you can derive pride in direct proportion to how invested you are. most people (those that aren't nihilists) have such things that function for them in exactly the same way. it's ultimately a sublimation urge -- we prove ourselves insofar as we sacrifice. if nationalism vexes you then i challenge you to reflect on your own loyalties/commitments.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- danans 7y ago
  > if nationalism vexes you then i challenge you to reflect on your own loyalties/commitments. I agree, but just because the psychological mechanisms that give rise to both humanism and nationalism are related, doesn't mean that we can't make reasonable judgments about which is better than the other, especially when the nationalism is of an ethnic or racial variety.

dmitriid 7y ago

"Ah, war. It's God's way of teaching Americans geography" [1] And not just Americans. Anyone, really. [1] Attributed to many people, https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/05/19/geography/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/05/19/geography/ I heard it from in a Daily Show segment on Russia-Georgia war in 2008.

tyingq 7y ago

"Men were about twice as likely as women to be able to identify Iran on both maps" Wow, that's unexpected. Is there some credible source on why this is the case? Also curious if this is generally true...would you get the same result if they were asked to identify Belgium on a map?

op00to 7y ago
Scientific studies suggest men generally have a better sense of direction than women, and use that sense of direction more effectively. Kind of makes you wonder where the "fails to ask for directions" trope comes from! :) https://blog.education.nationalgeographic.org/2015/12/10/do-men-have-a-better-sense-of-direction-than-women/ https://blog.education.nationalgeographic.org/2015/12/10/do-...
- op00to 7y ago
  And yes - I know it didn't PROVE men have a better sense, it suggests that based on the effects of hormones administered to women.
- rurp 7y ago
  I'd guess the trope comes from a combination of men traditionally doing more of the driving and having a stronger desire to figure out problems on their own.
pflats 7y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if there are a number of confounding factors that skew male, such TV shows/movies/video games marketed to men that feature Iran and/or the region.
dkarl 7y ago
I have been surprised to discover how many people know very little about geography but even more surprised to learn what a high proportion of people who do know geography know it mostly from military history, which is a stereotypically masculine interest.

whoisjuan 7y ago

How the heck someone put Iran in South America? Just a little exposure to everyday media should give you enough to rule out that completely. That's such a basic geography understanding. This completely blows my mind.

koboll 7y ago
With any public opinion survey there's going to be a certain amount of "noise" results. You can't _force_ people to give serious answers. But if your methodology is sound (Morning Consult's certainly is) then they will tend to cancel each other out.
- greeneggs 7y ago
  You can't force people to give serious answers, but you can incentivize them to do so. My guess is that the results would be dramatically better if the respondents were paid for correct answers.
  - koboll 7y ago
    That would incentivize respondents to cheat and look it up. I think you'd find that would make the results much worse.
damq 7y ago
I find the whole survey incredibly suspicious. There's no way there were actually multiple people who thought Iran was an ocean.
eithed 7y ago
I guess the same way somebody would put Iran in the middle of the ocean
thoughtleader31 7y ago
Given that it's a completely nonsense answer among the outliers, I wouldn't be as concerned as to with the people that put it in the Balkans or confuse it with Turkey.

webdva 7y ago

And yet Twitter is the becoming-heroic war machine of the ordinary citizen, because it and other armaments of information allow a person to independently participate in information warfare on rival states. Just like the capsuleer pod technology found in the lore of the futuristic space setting massively multiplayer online roleplaying game Eve Online. It's safe to conclude that generally Twitter democratizes power.

mullingitover 7y ago

To paraphrase what wise people have warned for millenia: Democratic government by an ignorant populace is a recipe for disaster. We get the government we deserve, but that same malfeasant government we deserve is responsible for educating us.

andrei_says_ 7y ago
I’m not sure we “deserve” the unprecedented propaganda efforts, the weaponization of social media, the think tanks that have been iterating more and more sophisticated manipulation methods, gerrymandering which makes voting useless in key districts etc. Also see the work of George Lakoff. Enlightenment thinking is a myth. We’re super easy to manipulate and that’s where the effort and money goes. Confident good looking people on tv repeating carefully constructed lies with authoritarian voices and straight faces. It is impossible to argue with their viewership. Propaganda works. Do we deserve this almost impossible to navigate environment where it’s hard to tell what’s real and what’s not? In my opinion this is the result of criminal efforts to normalize crime.

lmaophp 7y ago

Does it matter jew shill?

hinkley 7y ago

Can we talk about how the map they chose doesn’t show Kuwait?

smcl 7y ago
But ... they do. It's right there where it's supposed to be. https://morningconsult.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/2020-People-Identifying-Iran-on-regional-map-scaled.png https://morningconsult.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/2020-P...
- hinkley 7y ago
  Oh my, you are correct. The southern border is obscured by dots. On my screen I couldn't see it at all. It looked like Saudi Arabia had absorbed Kuwait. My brain zeros in on irony, and I thought it was funny that we're talking about not finding things on the map and the map was wrong.

rasz 7y ago

To be fair most of the dots landed in what Trump and his demographic call "Shithole Countries", you couldnt make a better move to stay in power than this new war.

verganileonardo 7y ago

Not sure if only taking into account the % of voters that precisely mapped where Iran is located is enough, as it would put someone that selected Egypt and South America in the same group (wrongly identified the location). I would prefer an 'average distance from the border' analysis, in which we would be able to compare which group is clearly unaware of Iran's location (selecting Europe or even North America, for example) and which group at least has a basic idea of the location (Middle East).

yutuytuyt 7y ago

Huge majority of them was decently close, what's wrong with that?

refurb 7y ago

I would take the results of this poll keeping "Boaty McBoatface" in mind.

deno 7y ago

Maybe unpopular opinion: Most people don’t have any reason to look at maps beyond local area and it doesn’t automatically mean they’re stupid. Middle east is not a continent and if you look at a global map without country lines then you might not notice it in relation to any point of reference, and as such have trouble locating it. Knowing where a place is on map is not necessary to participate in democracy. Most people vote instinctively and just have a mental map that there’s a potential external threat and how should we respond to this threat. It’s about liberty vs. safety. Maps offer no help in this whatsoever.

smcl 7y ago

There are a lot of comments here relating this to the escalation in tensions in the region - making very strong arguments for and against the idea that because 77% of the US could not place Iran on the map it is ridiculous that they should consider going to war. Let me clear this up: it is ridiculous regardless of this statistic. Sure it might be a little embarrassing for Americans that there are so many people fired up to declare war on a country they know precious little about, but war with Iran would still be terribly wrong even if they could pinpoint Iran on the map and draw a little dot exactly where Tehran is. And for those suggesting that this exercise is like asking Iranians to pick out Wyoming or Missouri on a map ... I really don't think you want to open that can of worms.

mnm1 7y ago

Not being able to identify Iran is one thing. But it takes a special kind of stupid to think it's in Australia or the Americas. I was going to comment that we don't need yet another article pointing out the stupidity of Americans. I was wrong. This points out either stupidity beyond any comprehension or that a lot of people did not take this seriously. I hope it's the latter. It's embarassing to me to be a part of a society that is this stupid otherwise.

vo2maxer 7y ago

The poll is telling given survey findings of only 36% correct answers on geographical knowledge among high school students: https://calgeography.sdsu.edu/wp-content/uploads/GeoEduReport_Final_web.pdf https://calgeography.sdsu.edu/wp-content/uploads/GeoEduRepor...

hinkley 7y ago

I've gotten to observe some tutoring recently and it gives me a different perspective on this than the typical "Oh look how stupid people are" reaction than probably got this post flagged. Some people, when faced with a problem they can't answer, respond with a glib answer, or a panicked one. I propose that when you ask someone where Iran is and they don't know, they click on Northern Africa not because they think it's in Africa but because as soon as they give any answer they can be done. "Fuck it, I'm choosing North Africa." It's like that kid who answers '5' when the teacher asks what 2x4 is. How the fuck could five be the answer? It's not even an even number! Are you stupid? No. You've given up, and you think guessing will get you out of this experience. Many of the teachers I knew would double down in this situation. Yes, you should not condition the child to get out of things by doing them badly, but now they're the focus of everyone's attention which is also detrimental to the process. I would like it if education focused on making people more resilient and empowered to figure out what they don't know instead of trying to get out of the uncomfortable situation. If people can learn on their own you don't have to min-max education to help the most people with a single process (leaving both the gifted and the slow kids in the dust in the process). I've said before that I think physical education should focus on how to do physical things without hurting yourself (ex: how to fall properly). Now I'd also like it if academic education focused not on how to cram things into people's heads faster but how to keep from getting frustrated or panicked when facing adversity in learning.

jlangemeier 7y ago

I came to complain about the graphs... Their 38%s don't line up; like at all. Also, they don't go into what they mean by "unlabeled" in either the current methodology or their previously linked North Korea methodology either for how the people selected where Iran was. With the datapoints on the map, I'm wondering if they even had country borders; otherwise I'd think a heatmap of the selected countries would be a better telling of the data. In general, their visual representations of what was produced was, in short, hot freaking garbage. Which may mean that the data is; and kinda throws the entire survey into question.

plumednom 7y ago

Sure, Johnny can't read a map (or a book), but he can sure shoot a gun (and kill middle easterners for oil profits)

aazaa 7y ago

Why is this flagged?