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That's a straw man argument oft used by anti-labor unions. Think of it this way, you want to create value. But you have NO say in the definition of value, the

That's a straw man argument oft used by anti-labor unions. Think of it this way, you want to create value. But you have NO say in the definition of value, the calculation of that value, and little influence as to what percentage of that value you get to claim as your own. Your livelihood is directly controlled by something you have very little influence over. You have to TRUST the company is going to act in your best interest and value your contributions. A labor union would give you the bargaining ability to have that say. Unions aren't above abuse, but neither are non-union jobs either. I'm offering a perspective as someone with ~20 years experience in industry lucky enough to have been relevant for so long.

SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
A labor union gives union leaders bargaining ability. Even if we assume that leaders are properly aligned with the employees as a whole, which is not something I think can be taken for granted, I’m not sure I want a handful of representatives with no personal relationship to me deciding how valuable my work is.
- tomtheelder 7y ago
  > I’m not sure I want a handful of representatives with no personal relationship to me deciding how valuable my work is This is precisely the situation that most non-unionized workers already have, except that no one is even nominally trying to advocate for their interests. The theory that corporations should be beholden exclusively to shareholders and not to all stakeholders took over completely, and has failed workers spectacularly (it's been great for capital, unsurprisingly). Having union representatives with bargaining ability is just a means for the most important stakeholders, workers, to exert any influence in a situation where they currently have none.
  - lawnchair_larry 7y ago
    How does anyone say that the US tech industry has “failed workers spectacularly” with a straight face? If any industry has not failed the workers, it’s the tech industry. The idea that some union rep can negotiate a better outcome for me than I can is, frankly, pretty laughable.
    - balls187 7y ago
      > The idea that some union rep can negotiate a better outcome for me than I can is, frankly, pretty laughable. What is your employer match for your 401k? What is your annual deductible for health insurance for yourself? For your partner? Kids? How large is your pension fund? Terms?
- balls187 7y ago
  The sentiment here is that for the game industry Unions would be a benefit to put an end to unfair working conditions. Game companies have a lot of leverage because the demand for jobs in gaming for out weighs the supply. Your bargaining power comes from leverage, and your only real leverage is that you can go work for some other company. A labor union's bargaining power comes from numbers of it's members. Certainly that can and has lead to abuse, but that is no different than what can happen with business.
bluGill 7y ago
It isn't a strawman - it is in fact one outcome from the requirements for a union to work: https://pedestrianobservations.com/2016/07/16/public-transit-unions/ https://pedestrianobservations.com/2016/07/16/public-transit... Workers who feel like they are not better than each other are much more willing to organize, and they are also more likely to support seniority pay systems. Note that this isn't a hard requirement. Some unions do not have it, but it is a strike against the whole concept. Maybe the union and work anyway, some do. It does however make it much harder for the union to get started and remain started.

SpicyLemonZest 7y ago

A labor union gives union leaders bargaining ability. Even if we assume that leaders are properly aligned with the employees as a whole, which is not something I think can be taken for granted, I’m not sure I want a handful of representatives with no personal relationship to me deciding how valuable my work is.

tomtheelder 7y ago
> I’m not sure I want a handful of representatives with no personal relationship to me deciding how valuable my work is This is precisely the situation that most non-unionized workers already have, except that no one is even nominally trying to advocate for their interests. The theory that corporations should be beholden exclusively to shareholders and not to all stakeholders took over completely, and has failed workers spectacularly (it's been great for capital, unsurprisingly). Having union representatives with bargaining ability is just a means for the most important stakeholders, workers, to exert any influence in a situation where they currently have none.
- lawnchair_larry 7y ago
  How does anyone say that the US tech industry has “failed workers spectacularly” with a straight face? If any industry has not failed the workers, it’s the tech industry. The idea that some union rep can negotiate a better outcome for me than I can is, frankly, pretty laughable.
  - balls187 7y ago
    > The idea that some union rep can negotiate a better outcome for me than I can is, frankly, pretty laughable. What is your employer match for your 401k? What is your annual deductible for health insurance for yourself? For your partner? Kids? How large is your pension fund? Terms?
balls187 7y ago
The sentiment here is that for the game industry Unions would be a benefit to put an end to unfair working conditions. Game companies have a lot of leverage because the demand for jobs in gaming for out weighs the supply. Your bargaining power comes from leverage, and your only real leverage is that you can go work for some other company. A labor union's bargaining power comes from numbers of it's members. Certainly that can and has lead to abuse, but that is no different than what can happen with business.

bluGill 7y ago

It isn't a strawman - it is in fact one outcome from the requirements for a union to work: https://pedestrianobservations.com/2016/07/16/public-transit-unions/ https://pedestrianobservations.com/2016/07/16/public-transit... Workers who feel like they are not better than each other are much more willing to organize, and they are also more likely to support seniority pay systems. Note that this isn't a hard requirement. Some unions do not have it, but it is a strike against the whole concept. Maybe the union and work anyway, some do. It does however make it much harder for the union to get started and remain started.