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John Carmack got to where he is by being a game developer. If you discount all wildly successful people in a field that is known to be a winner takes all enviro

John Carmack got to where he is by being a game developer. If you discount all wildly successful people in a field that is known to be a winner takes all environment then you won't have that many successful people to listen to.

eropple 7y ago
John Carmack got to where he is by owning a game development company. That does not imply he didn't work at it and it doesn't imply that he didn't work hard but the difference between capital and labor is obvious and that is precisely what a union seeks to address. (He's also a genius. And good for him for that. Most people aren't.)
- adnzzzzZ 7y ago
  He talks about this in the video. In his own experience in his studios he never noticed someone being unfairly pressured to work more than they wanted, and he had colleagues who worked 9 to 5 and who did just fine. He also claims that from people in the industry he spoke to, most people under these situations choose to work overtime because they value their work a lot, and that he doesn't buy into social engineering arguments that people are pressured into doing it because otherwise they'd get fired.
  - aabeshou 7y ago
    well, if he's right then people might just reject the union. if his experience is biased and/or anecdotal, we'll find out the truth. either way, no point in trying to undermine or discredit grassroots unionization efforts.
    - SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
      The article isn’t describing a grassroots unionization effort. The CWA, a large external organization which expects to benefit from the creation of game developer unions, is pumping in an unknown amount of resources and funding.
  - eropple 7y ago
    "Never noticed" is doing a lot of work for you there. Making line employees work more to achieve goals that cannot otherwise be reached except by pushing those employees to crunch is what managers are for. Why would an executive or a founder "notice" this? The work's getting done, what else do they care about? It's possible that iD was well-run when he was there. (And, from what I've anecdotally heard, that's probably true--Todd Hollenshead gets a lot of respect from folks I know!) That doesn't mean other studios are run so well and it doesn't mean that Carmack's anecdotes cancel out, or even meaningfully put into question, those of people not in his rarefied circles. There are a lot of game developers out there and most don't have nearly the funding or the schedule luxuries that iD always did pre-Bethesda, when Carmack was most involved.
claudeganon 7y ago
We should be quick to encourage genius outliers, but thats not most people, and those people shouldn’t be forced into death marches to ship games. The two concerns aren’t antithetical. Major industries like sports and entertainment, both of which are a heavy mixture of average and high-performers, are already unionized without any real drag on the exceptionally talented nor their compensation.

eropple 7y ago

John Carmack got to where he is by owning a game development company. That does not imply he didn't work at it and it doesn't imply that he didn't work hard but the difference between capital and labor is obvious and that is precisely what a union seeks to address. (He's also a genius. And good for him for that. Most people aren't.)

adnzzzzZ 7y ago
He talks about this in the video. In his own experience in his studios he never noticed someone being unfairly pressured to work more than they wanted, and he had colleagues who worked 9 to 5 and who did just fine. He also claims that from people in the industry he spoke to, most people under these situations choose to work overtime because they value their work a lot, and that he doesn't buy into social engineering arguments that people are pressured into doing it because otherwise they'd get fired.
- aabeshou 7y ago
  well, if he's right then people might just reject the union. if his experience is biased and/or anecdotal, we'll find out the truth. either way, no point in trying to undermine or discredit grassroots unionization efforts.
  - SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
    The article isn’t describing a grassroots unionization effort. The CWA, a large external organization which expects to benefit from the creation of game developer unions, is pumping in an unknown amount of resources and funding.
- eropple 7y ago
  "Never noticed" is doing a lot of work for you there. Making line employees work more to achieve goals that cannot otherwise be reached except by pushing those employees to crunch is what managers are for. Why would an executive or a founder "notice" this? The work's getting done, what else do they care about? It's possible that iD was well-run when he was there. (And, from what I've anecdotally heard, that's probably true--Todd Hollenshead gets a lot of respect from folks I know!) That doesn't mean other studios are run so well and it doesn't mean that Carmack's anecdotes cancel out, or even meaningfully put into question, those of people not in his rarefied circles. There are a lot of game developers out there and most don't have nearly the funding or the schedule luxuries that iD always did pre-Bethesda, when Carmack was most involved.

claudeganon 7y ago

We should be quick to encourage genius outliers, but thats not most people, and those people shouldn’t be forced into death marches to ship games. The two concerns aren’t antithetical. Major industries like sports and entertainment, both of which are a heavy mixture of average and high-performers, are already unionized without any real drag on the exceptionally talented nor their compensation.