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I suspect most of them were told (by their mothers, continuously for the first 20 years of their lives) that this was in fact the way to land a good woman. Be a

I suspect most of them were told (by their mothers, continuously for the first 20 years of their lives) that this was in fact the way to land a good woman. Be a nice clean cut guy and earn $120K a year. If you know so much then what's your prescription for them?

_jgdh 7y ago
I’m going to guess they won’t have an answer to your question of how single men in the Bay Area working on themselves and “becoming interesting” will suddenly make tens of thousands of single women materialise in the Bay Area. It was merely a rant about how they felt people shouldn’t feel entitled to anything and that expecting to be able to date if you’ve got your life in order is too much entitlement.
- glangdale 7y ago
  This is a strange response, mostly a wilful misreading of what I wrote. But yes, having your "life in order" isn't actually all that shit-hot, and yes, "expecting to be able to date" if you're not very interesting is actually "too much entitlement". Because last time I checked, "expecting to be able to date" involves the decisions of other people and you're not really generally entitled for other people to do much more than treat you with decency and respect. Not, necessarily, want to jump your bones. Sorry.
  - philosopher1234 7y ago
    Why do you need to be “hot shit” in order to date? Why isn’t being able to provide for your SO emotionally/physically/financially sufficient? By your standards I’m not hot shit but my girlfriend loves me so I’m wondering why I should even care what you think?
    - glangdale 7y ago
      It's weird you keep cropping up on this thread interpreting me saying "women are not going to flock to you just because you meet some basic criteria so it is foolish to start behaving that you are entitled to this" as "obviously, philosopher1234 cannot possibly have a girlfriend, q.e.d".
      - philosopher1234 7y ago
        I claim that being kind, having a stable job, and capable of love is enough to find a woman with those same qualities. I think it’s weird that you keep running around this thread telling men they’re not good enough in such a vicious tone. It comes across as bitter
        glangdale 7y ago
        OK, once more: at no point did I ever suggest that people can't find love if they don't have much more than table stakes things like "clean fingernails" and "stable jobs" and "capability for love", only that they should not feel entitled to attention from the appropriate gender. I'm curious as to what's driving your serial misinterpretation, if anything. I suppose it's possible you're just having difficulty with parsing out arguments and reasoning about them (is English your first language?), but it seems just as likely you're on the insecure side. You keep cropping up and asking complete strangers on the Internet to validate your relationship. So, ok. Dude, you're probably fine. Although it's not a guarantee; there's still a possibility that your girlfriend runs off with Mick Jagger, or a rock-climber who works in a cafe who has $18.23 in his bank account, or a temperamental chess player with a huge schlong who bathes once a month, whether he needs to or not. Keep your eyes peeled at all times!
        _jgdh 7y ago
        How are you not getting this? This is not a problem of interestingness. This is a problem of skewed gender ratios. In India and China there are way more men than women. That means that some men will remain without partners regardless of what they do or how interesting they become. That's their problem you might say. Sure, but only if you ignore the negative consequences of young men being unable to find partners.
duelingjello 7y ago
Women make boys into women. Men need to grow a pair, throw away some conventions, gain nuanced judgement by learning from thousands of interactions. There’s no substitute for experience. Build a fun life and fun people will seek out that wavelength; build a boring life and similar will surround you as well. Do it all while you’re still young and healthy because doors will gradually close.
- philosopher1234 7y ago
  Why is being a competent, stable, kind adult not enough to be in a healthy relationship? Is it better to be mcjagger than mr Rogers? What I bring to my relationship isn’t primarily mystery or entertainment or coolness or “being interesting”, but an emotional connection, stability, and love. Everyone here is talking like that’s not good enough and I don’t understand why. Clearly it is enough for my girlfriend and it’s what I want from her as well.
  - barry-cotter 7y ago
    > Why is being a competent, stable, kind adult not enough to be in a healthy relationship? Because no one owes you shit. If you don’t like your circumstances change them. Either change yourself or change your surroundings. You are not owed a relationship of any kind, for any reason. Being a single man in the Bay Area is pretty awful because of the ratio, even if you are reasonably good looking, professionally successful and confident. It’s no fun being a young professional woman in New York City either. The ratio is the ratio; it has its effects. People give women marginally more lip service sympathy but they do exactly as much to actually help. Nothing.
glangdale 7y ago
Well, first of all, lose that sense of entitlement. It's hard to think of much that's less appealing than petulance. It's also a pretty great way to blind yourself to what 'league' you're actually in. A number of my tech friends have wasted an extraordinary amount of time chasing women absurdly out of their league because they've been convinced that "having a decent job", "being well-spoken" and "eating with their mouths closed" somehow puts them in the top 3% of desirable men. Really, no. Second, go have a life. You know, other activities outside work? Socializing? This is important anyhow. Preferably do activities because you're interested in them and socialize with people you like, not because you're there to "pick up chicks". Nothing is more tiring than dudes relentlessly on the make in every situation. This isn't guaranteed to work... especially with dire male/female ratios (although not living like a schlub probably evens the odds a bit). And plenty of people are just really unattractive, uncharismatic, whatever. Not sure what to do then.
- krageon 7y ago
  > lose that sense of entitlement When you are told you need to meet specific criteria to achieve a goal, it's not entitlement to expect those criteria to lead to that goal. When trying to get people to listen to what you are saying, try not to start with a put-down.
  - selimthegrim 7y ago
    Who on earth (in USA I should say) actually listens to their parents in this matter?
    - thedaemon 7y ago
      These tech guys who's only relationship is with their mother? I'm pretty sickened by reading all the comments on this post. So many incels it's not even funny.
      - justincredible 7y ago
        If they are celibate because of their bad attitudes, can you still can it involuntary?
swiley 7y ago
If there’s one thing I know about dating it’s “don’t take your mom’s advice.” So little of it appears to be grounded in reality. Wearing dress shirts instead of t-shirts was a good idea though.

_jgdh 7y ago

I’m going to guess they won’t have an answer to your question of how single men in the Bay Area working on themselves and “becoming interesting” will suddenly make tens of thousands of single women materialise in the Bay Area. It was merely a rant about how they felt people shouldn’t feel entitled to anything and that expecting to be able to date if you’ve got your life in order is too much entitlement.

glangdale 7y ago
This is a strange response, mostly a wilful misreading of what I wrote. But yes, having your "life in order" isn't actually all that shit-hot, and yes, "expecting to be able to date" if you're not very interesting is actually "too much entitlement". Because last time I checked, "expecting to be able to date" involves the decisions of other people and you're not really generally entitled for other people to do much more than treat you with decency and respect. Not, necessarily, want to jump your bones. Sorry.
- philosopher1234 7y ago
  Why do you need to be “hot shit” in order to date? Why isn’t being able to provide for your SO emotionally/physically/financially sufficient? By your standards I’m not hot shit but my girlfriend loves me so I’m wondering why I should even care what you think?
  - glangdale 7y ago
    It's weird you keep cropping up on this thread interpreting me saying "women are not going to flock to you just because you meet some basic criteria so it is foolish to start behaving that you are entitled to this" as "obviously, philosopher1234 cannot possibly have a girlfriend, q.e.d".
    - philosopher1234 7y ago
      I claim that being kind, having a stable job, and capable of love is enough to find a woman with those same qualities. I think it’s weird that you keep running around this thread telling men they’re not good enough in such a vicious tone. It comes across as bitter
      - glangdale 7y ago
        OK, once more: at no point did I ever suggest that people can't find love if they don't have much more than table stakes things like "clean fingernails" and "stable jobs" and "capability for love", only that they should not feel entitled to attention from the appropriate gender. I'm curious as to what's driving your serial misinterpretation, if anything. I suppose it's possible you're just having difficulty with parsing out arguments and reasoning about them (is English your first language?), but it seems just as likely you're on the insecure side. You keep cropping up and asking complete strangers on the Internet to validate your relationship. So, ok. Dude, you're probably fine. Although it's not a guarantee; there's still a possibility that your girlfriend runs off with Mick Jagger, or a rock-climber who works in a cafe who has $18.23 in his bank account, or a temperamental chess player with a huge schlong who bathes once a month, whether he needs to or not. Keep your eyes peeled at all times!
        _jgdh 7y ago
        How are you not getting this? This is not a problem of interestingness. This is a problem of skewed gender ratios. In India and China there are way more men than women. That means that some men will remain without partners regardless of what they do or how interesting they become. That's their problem you might say. Sure, but only if you ignore the negative consequences of young men being unable to find partners.

duelingjello 7y ago

Women make boys into women. Men need to grow a pair, throw away some conventions, gain nuanced judgement by learning from thousands of interactions. There’s no substitute for experience. Build a fun life and fun people will seek out that wavelength; build a boring life and similar will surround you as well. Do it all while you’re still young and healthy because doors will gradually close.

philosopher1234 7y ago
Why is being a competent, stable, kind adult not enough to be in a healthy relationship? Is it better to be mcjagger than mr Rogers? What I bring to my relationship isn’t primarily mystery or entertainment or coolness or “being interesting”, but an emotional connection, stability, and love. Everyone here is talking like that’s not good enough and I don’t understand why. Clearly it is enough for my girlfriend and it’s what I want from her as well.
- barry-cotter 7y ago
  > Why is being a competent, stable, kind adult not enough to be in a healthy relationship? Because no one owes you shit. If you don’t like your circumstances change them. Either change yourself or change your surroundings. You are not owed a relationship of any kind, for any reason. Being a single man in the Bay Area is pretty awful because of the ratio, even if you are reasonably good looking, professionally successful and confident. It’s no fun being a young professional woman in New York City either. The ratio is the ratio; it has its effects. People give women marginally more lip service sympathy but they do exactly as much to actually help. Nothing.

glangdale 7y ago

Well, first of all, lose that sense of entitlement. It's hard to think of much that's less appealing than petulance. It's also a pretty great way to blind yourself to what 'league' you're actually in. A number of my tech friends have wasted an extraordinary amount of time chasing women absurdly out of their league because they've been convinced that "having a decent job", "being well-spoken" and "eating with their mouths closed" somehow puts them in the top 3% of desirable men. Really, no. Second, go have a life. You know, other activities outside work? Socializing? This is important anyhow. Preferably do activities because you're interested in them and socialize with people you like, not because you're there to "pick up chicks". Nothing is more tiring than dudes relentlessly on the make in every situation. This isn't guaranteed to work... especially with dire male/female ratios (although not living like a schlub probably evens the odds a bit). And plenty of people are just really unattractive, uncharismatic, whatever. Not sure what to do then.

krageon 7y ago
> lose that sense of entitlement When you are told you need to meet specific criteria to achieve a goal, it's not entitlement to expect those criteria to lead to that goal. When trying to get people to listen to what you are saying, try not to start with a put-down.
- selimthegrim 7y ago
  Who on earth (in USA I should say) actually listens to their parents in this matter?
  - thedaemon 7y ago
    These tech guys who's only relationship is with their mother? I'm pretty sickened by reading all the comments on this post. So many incels it's not even funny.
    - justincredible 7y ago
      If they are celibate because of their bad attitudes, can you still can it involuntary?

swiley 7y ago

If there’s one thing I know about dating it’s “don’t take your mom’s advice.” So little of it appears to be grounded in reality. Wearing dress shirts instead of t-shirts was a good idea though.