7 ms·

It gets better, though: """ Please note: In this story, we discuss 5 GHz and 6 GHz, which are frequency bands, as well as the wireless standards 5G and Wi-Fi

It gets better, though: """ Please note: In this story, we discuss 5 GHz and 6 GHz, which are frequency bands, as well as the wireless standards 5G and Wi-Fi 6. The frequency ranges may sound like they are related to the wireless standards, but the terminology similarity is a coincidence. """

RL_Quine 7y ago
The post also talks about "WiFi 4" and "WiFi 5", which were new terms to me. It turns out "WiFi 4" is back naming for 802.11n, "WiFi 5" is 802.11ac. So you can have Wifi 4 2.4GHz, WiFi 4 5GHz, and WiFi 5 5Ghz, WiFi 6 5GHz and Wifi 6 6GHz? Something like that.
- mjevans 7y ago
  I'd rather they just use the years the standards were ratified... at least that would be both monotonic and obvious while not risking confusion with the frequency.
  - CBLT 7y ago
    Probably unpalatable to industry. Do you imagine ASUS would want their newest 2020 router to only be Wifi 2018?
    - echelon 7y ago
      Consumers that need to know or care can be taught. The other half or more of the market already doesn't understand the existing versioning scheme. If you print the version in small print on the back of the box, they'll be no worse off. Or simply elide the first two digits and they won't know it's a year-based scheme. And who's to say they can't do a yearly release cadence? WiFi 20, WiFi 21, ...
    - gpm 7y ago
      I propose using a 3 digit date, no one will even realize if they aren't a tech person. Our 2020 router supports wifi 018
    - RL_Quine 7y ago
      It can be done in the same way that specifications for consumer electronics currently work. This router supports WiFi Hyper-Speed 5 Super Tough Technology with Ultra Frequency Crystals (R) for enhanced frequency modulation GAMING EDITION ULTIMATE FATALITY RGB. The rise of this sort of branding is very intentionally to make comparison possible, as you don't really know anything about the Ultra Frequency Crystals and why their competitor doesn't have them, just buy whichever ones have flames and a dragon on the box and it'll work itself out.
    - lebrad 7y ago
      The auto industry deals with this by assigning cars a "model year" which is the year after the calendar year in which they start being sold, thus you can buy 2021 cars in 2020.
  - echelon 7y ago
    Monotonic version numbering is the way to go, and years are the most consistent and best understood mechanism for something with a release cadence such as WiFi or a language spec. We should adopt this as an industry.
    - Osiris 7y ago
      ECMAScript does this (ECAMScript 2015, 2017, 2018, etc) and I also really like it.
      - angrygoat 7y ago
        Fortran has been doing it longer.. Fortran 66, 77, 90, 95, 2003, 2008, 2018. It really is a very helpful approach.
    - jfoster 7y ago
      It also gives an indication of whether two things were produced around the same time or not. (Eg. You'd know that Windows 2015 probably wouldn't support WiFi 2019 without support being added)
      - echelon 7y ago
        Now that's just brilliant. It hasn't seen wide enough adoption for this to happen yet, but imagine all the USB standards and processors and whatnot did the same. That's just so simple it's genius. "That 2020 motherboard won't run USB 2025" We really need this. Please Intel, Broadcom, Nvidia, etc. folks reading this. Please.
        PaulHoule 7y ago
        Those firms don't have much control of the rate technology is adopted. Look at how slow USB-C has been to come on. Look at how 802.11ax has gone nowhere. Or how Intel has been dragging its feet with PCIe4.
        7y ago
  - pacaro 7y ago
    I have fond memories from the mid nineties of a compiled xBase language that did this, their dominant version was Clipper Summer'87 — their last year numbered version, their next version was 5.0 and was so bad they lost most of their market advantage — in the mid nineties talking about a product called Summer'87 sounded really bad to me, humorously this was when Microsoft moved from a numeric scheme to years, which itself only lasted from 95-2000 (longer for server releases of course)
    - paranoidrobot 7y ago
      > Microsoft moved from a numeric scheme to years, which itself only lasted from 95-2000 (longer for server releases of course) Their commitment to it even for servers is only half-hearted. Windows Server 2003 (April 2003) Windows Server 2003 R2 (December 2005) Windows Server 2008 (February 2008) Windows Server 2008 R2 (October 2009) Windows Server 2012 (September 2012) Windows Server 2012 R2 (October 2013) Windows Server 2016 (September 2016) Windows Server 2019 (October 2018)
  - reaperducer 7y ago
    I'd rather they just use the years the standards were ratified Worked for Microsoft... for a while. And then later, lazy programmers forced it to skip Windows 9. People ruin everything.
    - Jaruzel 7y ago
      > People ruin everything. 'Marketeers' ruin everything.
      - reaperducer 7y ago
        It's my understanding that the reason "Windows 9" was skipped was technical, not marketing. I read (I think on HN) that lazy programmers would test whether the environment was Windows 95 through 98 by only checking for "Win9" or something similar, rather than a list of strings. Thus, if Microsoft released an actual "Win9," many programs would think they were running on Windows 95.
        WorldMaker 7y ago
        To name and shame at least one example, such code was included in some versions of the Java Development Kit itself and could be found in easy Google code searches at least at the time Microsoft skipped Windows 9. Microsoft and Apple and others also prefer to skip 9 for the international marketing reason that 9 is a very evil number by superstition in most of Asia, like how some of the west believes 13 to be unlucky and things like elevators tend to skip 13 in the US/Europe.
  - Dylan16807 7y ago
    That works for the version but tells you very little about what frequencies are supported. And it's the complication of frequencies that's hard here, not figuring out that wifi 6 comes between 5 and 7.
- zamadatix 7y ago
  WiFi 6 works on 2.4 as well.
  - bjoli 7y ago
    Which is one of the major benefits of it! It brings all the goodies back to 2.4ghz.
tzs 7y ago
Hah...you can't even get rid of the possibility of confusion by switching to wavelength instead of frequency to talk about the bands. 5 GHz is 6 cm, and 6 GHz is 5 cm, and so using wavelength would probably actually be more confusing.

RL_Quine 7y ago

The post also talks about "WiFi 4" and "WiFi 5", which were new terms to me. It turns out "WiFi 4" is back naming for 802.11n, "WiFi 5" is 802.11ac. So you can have Wifi 4 2.4GHz, WiFi 4 5GHz, and WiFi 5 5Ghz, WiFi 6 5GHz and Wifi 6 6GHz? Something like that.

mjevans 7y ago
I'd rather they just use the years the standards were ratified... at least that would be both monotonic and obvious while not risking confusion with the frequency.
- CBLT 7y ago
  Probably unpalatable to industry. Do you imagine ASUS would want their newest 2020 router to only be Wifi 2018?
  - echelon 7y ago
    Consumers that need to know or care can be taught. The other half or more of the market already doesn't understand the existing versioning scheme. If you print the version in small print on the back of the box, they'll be no worse off. Or simply elide the first two digits and they won't know it's a year-based scheme. And who's to say they can't do a yearly release cadence? WiFi 20, WiFi 21, ...
  - gpm 7y ago
    I propose using a 3 digit date, no one will even realize if they aren't a tech person. Our 2020 router supports wifi 018
  - RL_Quine 7y ago
    It can be done in the same way that specifications for consumer electronics currently work. This router supports WiFi Hyper-Speed 5 Super Tough Technology with Ultra Frequency Crystals (R) for enhanced frequency modulation GAMING EDITION ULTIMATE FATALITY RGB. The rise of this sort of branding is very intentionally to make comparison possible, as you don't really know anything about the Ultra Frequency Crystals and why their competitor doesn't have them, just buy whichever ones have flames and a dragon on the box and it'll work itself out.
  - lebrad 7y ago
    The auto industry deals with this by assigning cars a "model year" which is the year after the calendar year in which they start being sold, thus you can buy 2021 cars in 2020.
- echelon 7y ago
  Monotonic version numbering is the way to go, and years are the most consistent and best understood mechanism for something with a release cadence such as WiFi or a language spec. We should adopt this as an industry.
  - Osiris 7y ago
    ECMAScript does this (ECAMScript 2015, 2017, 2018, etc) and I also really like it.
    - angrygoat 7y ago
      Fortran has been doing it longer.. Fortran 66, 77, 90, 95, 2003, 2008, 2018. It really is a very helpful approach.
  - jfoster 7y ago
    It also gives an indication of whether two things were produced around the same time or not. (Eg. You'd know that Windows 2015 probably wouldn't support WiFi 2019 without support being added)
    - echelon 7y ago
      Now that's just brilliant. It hasn't seen wide enough adoption for this to happen yet, but imagine all the USB standards and processors and whatnot did the same. That's just so simple it's genius. "That 2020 motherboard won't run USB 2025" We really need this. Please Intel, Broadcom, Nvidia, etc. folks reading this. Please.
      - PaulHoule 7y ago
        Those firms don't have much control of the rate technology is adopted. Look at how slow USB-C has been to come on. Look at how 802.11ax has gone nowhere. Or how Intel has been dragging its feet with PCIe4.
        7y ago
- pacaro 7y ago
  I have fond memories from the mid nineties of a compiled xBase language that did this, their dominant version was Clipper Summer'87 — their last year numbered version, their next version was 5.0 and was so bad they lost most of their market advantage — in the mid nineties talking about a product called Summer'87 sounded really bad to me, humorously this was when Microsoft moved from a numeric scheme to years, which itself only lasted from 95-2000 (longer for server releases of course)
  - paranoidrobot 7y ago
    > Microsoft moved from a numeric scheme to years, which itself only lasted from 95-2000 (longer for server releases of course) Their commitment to it even for servers is only half-hearted. Windows Server 2003 (April 2003) Windows Server 2003 R2 (December 2005) Windows Server 2008 (February 2008) Windows Server 2008 R2 (October 2009) Windows Server 2012 (September 2012) Windows Server 2012 R2 (October 2013) Windows Server 2016 (September 2016) Windows Server 2019 (October 2018)
- reaperducer 7y ago
  I'd rather they just use the years the standards were ratified Worked for Microsoft... for a while. And then later, lazy programmers forced it to skip Windows 9. People ruin everything.
  - Jaruzel 7y ago
    > People ruin everything. 'Marketeers' ruin everything.
    - reaperducer 7y ago
      It's my understanding that the reason "Windows 9" was skipped was technical, not marketing. I read (I think on HN) that lazy programmers would test whether the environment was Windows 95 through 98 by only checking for "Win9" or something similar, rather than a list of strings. Thus, if Microsoft released an actual "Win9," many programs would think they were running on Windows 95.
      - WorldMaker 7y ago
        To name and shame at least one example, such code was included in some versions of the Java Development Kit itself and could be found in easy Google code searches at least at the time Microsoft skipped Windows 9. Microsoft and Apple and others also prefer to skip 9 for the international marketing reason that 9 is a very evil number by superstition in most of Asia, like how some of the west believes 13 to be unlucky and things like elevators tend to skip 13 in the US/Europe.
- Dylan16807 7y ago
  That works for the version but tells you very little about what frequencies are supported. And it's the complication of frequencies that's hard here, not figuring out that wifi 6 comes between 5 and 7.
zamadatix 7y ago
WiFi 6 works on 2.4 as well.
- bjoli 7y ago
  Which is one of the major benefits of it! It brings all the goodies back to 2.4ghz.

tzs 7y ago

Hah...you can't even get rid of the possibility of confusion by switching to wavelength instead of frequency to talk about the bands. 5 GHz is 6 cm, and 6 GHz is 5 cm, and so using wavelength would probably actually be more confusing.