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I don't understand how Oracle's position here about how the Apache license covering code covers the API and their position in Oracle vs. Google.

by dlgeek 7y ago

saghm 7y ago
Their position seems pretty straightforward; other people should have to pay them money, but they shouldn't have to pay other people money. They have this same position on pretty much everything else too.
- notlukesky 7y ago
  I don’t understand why stating the facts is cause for being downvoted?? The hypocrisy is well known and documented.
  - tapland 7y ago
    It doesn't need to be stated. From reading the more detailed comments about the cases one can draw their conclusions. There is no need for simple 'because they are evil'-comments. It doesn't help discussion.
    - opless 7y ago
      Maybe it does? A causal reader might not be aware of how hypocritical certain operators are in the IT space and are reading this for the first time. Just because it's obvious TO YOU doesn't mean it's obvious to everyone. Though I do agree that lots of "because they're evil" comments do not add to the discussion. Personally I think downvoting should be done carefully and not because the downvoter disagrees with the comment.
      - nurettin 7y ago
        Since we are on the meta side of HN usage, I'm really curious about why people here take time off to discuss their opinions at length. I occasionally throw an idea or two out there to test what sort of response they would get, but trying to convince someone out of their firmly held beliefs by arguing with them at length in the threads? That looks like a complete waste and it is unsettlingly abundant. Especially when the topic is a grey area where stakes are high. High for someone else of course. Not the people who discuss these things.
        opless 7y ago
        > complete waste I agree. I just forget occasionally.
        pas 7y ago
        Hm, it sometimes helps to organize thoughts to form a sort of well-rounded argument. I like reading similar comments from others. (A sort of bigger picture exposition, and/or a detailed technical walk-through that demonstrates some point(s).) Usually these comments are much more concise than whatever fluff article is linked. (Or they provide some required context for posts that are very much in need of it.)
    - killjoywashere 7y ago
      > It doesn't help discussion. Maybe it doesn't increase the level of discussion here, but maybe there's value in steering the scarce resource of intelligent conversants toward more productive threads? Additionally, getting people up to speed on corporate citizenship of various companies is an ongoing process, an ambient meta conversation that pervades many conversations.
    - SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
      But I think the question of Oracle's motivations is pretty important here. If they're not trying to be consistent, then critically analyzing their stated positions on IP is like trying to find the research behind a CEO's statements that their company has the best products and hires the best people.
      - tapland 7y ago
        s it is important, and there can be many reasons not to be consistent. You will probably win 1 of the cases, it will force rulings to be used later and one of the ways of getting there is to sue everyone for all kinds of reasons. 'They just want money' is too simplistic even if that is the case, because can they afford to keep doing this to everyone? Is there a strategy? And if it becomes a bandwagon of people with simple explanations there will be resistance towards anyone who figures out what could be their reasoning.
  - jayd16 7y ago
    The snark is well warranted but it doesn't add to the conversation so I understand the down votes.
    - isatty 7y ago
      The post they are replying to says "I don't understand oracles position here" and the comment explains it succinctly and factually - how does it not add to the conversation?
      - colejohnson66 7y ago
        It was somewhat snarky
EsssM7QVMehFPAs 7y ago
The Oracle vs. Google case is based around the copying of header files, including comments, verbatim as is. The Oracle Amazon API usage is an identical re-implementation of the interfaces, but as a web solution there is per se nothing to copy in verbatim form. The IBM-PC copycats back in the 80s went as far as clean room re-implementing the system with engineers who never saw the documentation. Ripping the header files out of a proprietary license package is quite cheap from a legal standpoint in comparison, even if open source is provided.

I don't understand how Oracle's position here about how the Apache license covering code covers the API and their position in Oracle vs. Google.

by dlgeek 7y ago

I don't understand how Oracle's position here about how the Apache license covering code covers the API and their position in Oracle vs. Google.

saghm 7y ago

Their position seems pretty straightforward; other people should have to pay them money, but they shouldn't have to pay other people money. They have this same position on pretty much everything else too.

notlukesky 7y ago
I don’t understand why stating the facts is cause for being downvoted?? The hypocrisy is well known and documented.
- tapland 7y ago
  It doesn't need to be stated. From reading the more detailed comments about the cases one can draw their conclusions. There is no need for simple 'because they are evil'-comments. It doesn't help discussion.
  - opless 7y ago
    Maybe it does? A causal reader might not be aware of how hypocritical certain operators are in the IT space and are reading this for the first time. Just because it's obvious TO YOU doesn't mean it's obvious to everyone. Though I do agree that lots of "because they're evil" comments do not add to the discussion. Personally I think downvoting should be done carefully and not because the downvoter disagrees with the comment.
    - nurettin 7y ago
      Since we are on the meta side of HN usage, I'm really curious about why people here take time off to discuss their opinions at length. I occasionally throw an idea or two out there to test what sort of response they would get, but trying to convince someone out of their firmly held beliefs by arguing with them at length in the threads? That looks like a complete waste and it is unsettlingly abundant. Especially when the topic is a grey area where stakes are high. High for someone else of course. Not the people who discuss these things.
      - opless 7y ago
        > complete waste I agree. I just forget occasionally.
      - pas 7y ago
        Hm, it sometimes helps to organize thoughts to form a sort of well-rounded argument. I like reading similar comments from others. (A sort of bigger picture exposition, and/or a detailed technical walk-through that demonstrates some point(s).) Usually these comments are much more concise than whatever fluff article is linked. (Or they provide some required context for posts that are very much in need of it.)
  - killjoywashere 7y ago
    > It doesn't help discussion. Maybe it doesn't increase the level of discussion here, but maybe there's value in steering the scarce resource of intelligent conversants toward more productive threads? Additionally, getting people up to speed on corporate citizenship of various companies is an ongoing process, an ambient meta conversation that pervades many conversations.
  - SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
    But I think the question of Oracle's motivations is pretty important here. If they're not trying to be consistent, then critically analyzing their stated positions on IP is like trying to find the research behind a CEO's statements that their company has the best products and hires the best people.
    - tapland 7y ago
      s it is important, and there can be many reasons not to be consistent. You will probably win 1 of the cases, it will force rulings to be used later and one of the ways of getting there is to sue everyone for all kinds of reasons. 'They just want money' is too simplistic even if that is the case, because can they afford to keep doing this to everyone? Is there a strategy? And if it becomes a bandwagon of people with simple explanations there will be resistance towards anyone who figures out what could be their reasoning.
- jayd16 7y ago
  The snark is well warranted but it doesn't add to the conversation so I understand the down votes.
  - isatty 7y ago
    The post they are replying to says "I don't understand oracles position here" and the comment explains it succinctly and factually - how does it not add to the conversation?
    - colejohnson66 7y ago
      It was somewhat snarky

EsssM7QVMehFPAs 7y ago

The Oracle vs. Google case is based around the copying of header files, including comments, verbatim as is. The Oracle Amazon API usage is an identical re-implementation of the interfaces, but as a web solution there is per se nothing to copy in verbatim form. The IBM-PC copycats back in the 80s went as far as clean room re-implementing the system with engineers who never saw the documentation. Ripping the header files out of a proprietary license package is quite cheap from a legal standpoint in comparison, even if open source is provided.